Ban Creationism and Intelligent Design in the science classroom as federal law.

[StormanNorman]

Either the universe was always here, or the universe came into being by chance, or God created the universe.

Let the kids decide.

What's so hard to understand?

Seriously though, my analogy is pretty good. We got a house, which has no air conditioning. So, does that now make the house not designed? No, ok, we have a mutation in nature, does that now make nature and the universe not designed? You see?

Let the kids decide.

Can you learn how the house is built, and how to build it, whether you believe the one your looking at is built by someone or just made itself? Yea, you can find out how it works by looking at it and examining it. Same with nature, whether you believe God made it, or it made itself, or was always here, or chance made it, whatever, just by examining it, you can find out how it works.

What's so hard about understanding this point?

The courts have already ruled that teaching Creationism and/or ID is inherently religious and therefore in violation of the Establishment Clause (if taught in public schools). Let's leave their education up to the respective churches or private schools.

 

[BarryDesborough]

Either the universe was always here, or the universe came into being by chance, or God created the universe.

Let the kids decide.

The origins of the universe are not a subject for evolution, but regarding evolution itself, let's give the kids the mental tools and the evidence with which to make their decision. Let us not lie to them and browbeat them into accepting what we want them to accept.

What would you present to kids as evidence that life does not evolve?

 

[OllieFranz]

Wow.....your comparing apples to oranges. Their is no comparison with all of this to intelligent design. Why can't you see that? The evolutionary model in essence says the universe got her by chance. Chance did it, while the creation model says God did it. Let the kids decide.

Wrong! The evolutionary model says that things --specifically populations -- change, and there are rules that govern why and how they change. It doesn't care when or how the first populations appeared, just that they continue to change according to the rules.

 

[Loudmouth]

Yes, i have heard of churches, mosques and synagogues and temples matter of fact. lol. If i did not hear of them, boy, would i be one hell of a sheltered individual, or just a wild man living in the woods,

Then why would you ever ask if children are not allowed to decide for themselves?

That's like saying, nothing in that house or it's structure or how it works can be understood unless in light of the belief that the house made itself or got their by chance.

No, it isn't like that at all since no one is claiming that houses came about by evolution.

You see how my analogy is building here?

It's not an analogy since houses have none of the hallmarks of evolution, nor is anyone claiming that they evolved.

Houses do not fall into a nested hierarchy because they were designed. Life does fall into a nested hierarchy because life evolved.

So in light of my analogy, your point makes no sense.

Your analogy has none of the characteristics that evidence evolution in living species.

Learning about chance making us and macro evolution tells them nothing of modern biology.

Yes, it does. It tells us why genetic sequences fall into a nested hierarchy, and why there are fewer non-synonymous mutations in genes than there should be. These are just two examples off the top of my head. The modeling of chance has everything to do with the field of population genetics and in understanding the differences between species.

Chance making us and macro evolution is anti-science(finding out how the house actually works and it's makeup or build) , quite frankly.

Hundreds of thousands of scientists using the theory in their research says different.

I don't understand the question? Explain more.

It is a very simple question. Why don't houses fall into a nested hierarchy? Are you seriously telling us that you don't understand what a nested hierarchy is, and yet still feel qualified to declare that evolution is false? Are you telling us that you don't even understand one of the most basic observations in biology?

 

[Split Rock]

Learning about chance making us and macro evolution tells them nothing of modern biology.

Chance making us and macro evolution is anti-science(finding out how the house actually works and it's makeup or build) , quite frankly.

You keep referring to chance. While chance does play a role in evolution (e.g. Genetic Drift), Natural Selection (the basis for adaptive evolution) is not based on chance alone. It is a selective process, as the name suggests. And btw, yes, macro-evolution is central to modern biology.

 

[Loudmouth]

You keep referring to chance. While chance does play a role in evolution (e.g. Genetic Drift), Natural Selection (the basis for adaptive evolution) is not based on chance alone. It is a selective process, as the name suggests. And btw, yes, macro-evolution is central to modern biology.

If mutations were specifically designed to occur in response to environmental stimuli then we would not see a nested hierarchy. Mutations are random with respect to fitness (and are observed to be random in real world experiments) which is why we see a nested hierarchy.

 

[AV1611VET]

If your claims are falsified by Science,

I said scientists -- those who engineer science.

 

[dad]

If mutations were specifically designed to occur in response to environmental stimuli then we would not see a nested hierarchy. Mutations are random with respect to fitness (and are observed to be random in real world experiments) which is why we see a nested hierarchy.

Who says it was this environment only or primarily?? You have no way of even knowing what if any mutations occurred in most animals and man pre flood.

 

[jpcedotal]

Separation of Church and State came about to keep the State from hindering the Church...not to keep Religion out of the State.

Do a little research....

 

[Loudmouth]

Who says it was this environment only or primarily??

Your fantasies have no bearing on reality.

You have no way of even knowing what if any mutations occurred in most animals and man pre flood.

What flood? Evidence please.

 

[Loudmouth]

Separation of Church and State came about to keep the State from hindering the Church...not to keep Religion out of the State.

That is a right wing fantasy. From the very start it was meant to keep religion out of government given the turmoil state religions had in Europe.

 

[jpcedotal]

That is a right wing fantasy. From the very start it was meant to keep religion out of government given the turmoil state religions had in Europe.

There was a letter written by the President that tells the truth. Keep your hands over your eyes and ears if u want.

 

[dad]

That is a right wing fantasy. From the very start it was meant to keep religion out of government given the turmoil state religions had in Europe.

But not keep God out! Nor to be an excuse to let the religion of darkness IN.

Look at the US today. Like one big pride parade while the world fishes it's journey to hell in a hand basket in astounding speed. Led by a terrorist that kills rescue workers as well as funeral processions and etc with drones. A place where freedom is a fast fading memory, not uttered by most for fear of reprisal or assassination.

 

[dad]

Your fantasies have no bearing on reality.

The reality of Noah's day and the deep past is not anything you are remotely familiar with. The bluffing game is over.

 

[Loudmouth]

The reality of Noah's day and the deep past is not anything you are remotely familiar with. The bluffing game is over.

What "Noah's Day"? That is another fantasy of yours.

 

[Loudmouth]

But not keep God out! Nor to be an excuse to let the religion of darkness IN.

Government keeps God out in the same way that the rules of basketball keep God out. Government simply leaves religion to peoples' private lives. Why is that so hard to figure out? Why is that such a problem?

Look at the US today. Like one big pride parade while the world fishes it's journey to hell in a hand basket in astounding speed. Led by a terrorist that kills rescue workers as well as funeral processions and etc with drones. A place where freedom is a fast fading memory, not uttered by most for fear of reprisal or assassination.

You really are a right wing crackpot, aren't you? Name any time in history where America has had it worse. I dare you. The lives lead by the lower economic classes is well above that in previous generations. We have cures for multiple diseases that once plagued human kind. We have access to information and knowledge like never before. If this is hell, please sign me up for more.

 

[Habbit Animal]

I signed it. If creationism/ID, is taught in public schools it violates the tenets of church and State separation.
If a student can be threatened into not referencing his religion during his graduation ceremony that lasts just a couple of short hours on one designated day and where he's to be honored as valedictorian or some such, then there is no way creationism or ID can be taught in a school curriculum 9 months of the year.

Creationism/ID is religio-centric. It's not science. It's fable.

 

[jpcedotal]

I signed it. If creationism/ID, is taught in public schools it violates the tenets of church and State separation.
If a student can be threatened into not referencing his religion during his graduation ceremony that lasts just a couple of short hours on one designated day and where he's to be honored as valedictorian or some such, then there is no way creationism or ID can be taught in a school curriculum 9 months of the year.

Creationism/ID is religio-centric. It's not science. It's fable.

so is evolution...

 

[dad]

Government keeps God out in the same way that the rules of basketball keep God out.

False. We see basketball in state and schools.

Government simply leaves religion to peoples' private lives.

No. It enforces it's own.

Why is that so hard to figure out? Why is that such a problem?

It was false. It did not need figuring just flushing.

You really are a right wing crackpot, aren't you? Name any time in history where America has had it worse. I dare you.

Worse as defined by money? You kidding me? There is more in life.

The lives lead by the lower economic classes is well above that in previous generations.

Both parents work now, if they still live in a family usually. Is life better for the kid or them really?

We have cures for multiple diseases that once plagued human kind.

And many caused by the advances of science. I would rather live free a shorter time than live in darkness and bondage and as part of a terrorist state, regardless of science.

We have access to information and knowledge like never before.

Part of the problem.

If this is hell, please sign me up for more.

The tribulation period will be hell on earth and is at the doors. The only way to sign out is to flee to God.

 

[Loudmouth]

False. We see basketball in state and schools.

Where can you find God in the rules of basketball?

No. It enforces it's own.

That's a lie.

Worse as defined by money? You kidding me? There is more in life.

I listed health, income, access to knowledge and we can add infant mortality, mother mortality, diseases, equality for all races, the most equality for women in the entire history of our country, and I could go on and on and on and on. This is the best American has ever been.

So what is heaven like if this is hell? Abject poverty? 50% of children die before they reach the age of 3? Small pox wiping out 50% of entire towns? Widespread illiteracy amongst the poorest economic groups?