Bali Bomb Blast

[Cliff2]

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/wounded-ripped-apart-by-nails-and-ball-bearings/2005/10/03/1128191630526.html



"Wounded ripped apart by nails and ball bearings

A dozen injured Australians have begun receiving treatment in Darwin for horrific shrapnel wounds sustained in the Bali blasts.

The 12 injured and their families were evacuated from Bali on two RAAF Hercules aircraft..."


It was only a few years ago that a blast killed another group of people including many Australians.

 

[Vaudois]

Anybody here ever been to Bali?
If you have you know that it is a drunk's paradise, filled with alluring evils far beyond mere sand and surf. It's probably the most pagan place a white person can ever go "vist on a lark"....Not condemning the poor lost souls who actually live there.
Just feeling sorry for the poor lost souls who still wish to go there to wallow in hedonism and a cheap holiday after all the blood-letting that has been and will continue to go on there.
(BTW: I live close by. [not in Australia] I've been there before the bombings, and it's no place for an Adventist, unless God sends you there on with the Message.)

 

[StormyOne]

Interesting.....

 

[Vaudois]

Interesting.....

What part is interesting? My take on the place?
Please don't misunderstand: I don't mean to sound like a heartless bloke. I grieve for anyone who suffers.
However the "innocent vacationer" spin wears a wee bit thin here.
"The coal monger/salesman will get his hands black."
Everyone in this area knows what Bali is all about.....I doubt if anyone would take their Mum there!
It's interesting how few "news" stories there are about all the dead Indonesians in the Western papers. Perhaps a language barrier problem, huh?

There are 4 SDA churches there. Has anyone thought to contact them and see if they need any help??

 

[Cliff2]

What part is interesting? My take on the place?
Please don't misunderstand: I don't mean to sound like a heartless bloke. I grieve for anyone who suffers.
However the "innocent vacationer" spin wears a wee bit thin here.
"The coal monger/salesman will get his hands black."
Everyone in this area knows what Bali is all about.....I doubt if anyone would take their Mum there!
It's interesting how few "news" stories there are about all the dead Indonesians in the Western papers. Perhaps a language barrier problem, huh?

There are 4 SDA churches there. Has anyone thought to contact them and see if they need any help??

I think most people here know the place is all about the night clubs that are there.

Drugs and everything else that goes with that lifestyle.

The place is a modern day Sodom and Gomorah.

 

[StormyOne]

What part is interesting? My take on the place?
Please don't misunderstand: I don't mean to sound like a heartless bloke. I grieve for anyone who suffers.
However the "innocent vacationer" spin wears a wee bit thin here.
"The coal monger/salesman will get his hands black."
Everyone in this area knows what Bali is all about.....I doubt if anyone would take their Mum there!
It's interesting how few "news" stories there are about all the dead Indonesians in the Western papers. Perhaps a language barrier problem, huh?

There are 4 SDA churches there. Has anyone thought to contact them and see if they need any help??

Yes your take on the place is interesting.... I don't know anything about it.... so all I could say was "interesting"

 

[StormyOne]

I think most people here know the place is all about the night clubs that are there.

Drugs and everything else that goes with that lifestyle.

The place is a modern day Sodom and Gomorah.

Moreso than a place like Las Vegas? Or New Orleans pre Katrina? I am trying to get a point of reference....

 

[Vaudois]

Weeeelll....Imagine Hawaii with it's original pagan culture fully and operationally intact, plus the high rise hotels, plus total heaps of booze and dope, and all of it far far from home, but still everybody speaks English, plus everything is 1/5 the cost of home, plus a sweet and fatalistic people, who will do ANYTHING for money, cause they can offer a bit of rice an flowers to the Hindu gods, and their karma is cleaned up (they hope!).....and you may get a glimpse....Oh! And did I mention world class surfing, scuba, volcanoes and batik and ...well you see the hook.

 

[HoneyDew]

Anybody here ever been to Bali?
If you have you know that it is a drunk's paradise, filled with alluring evils far beyond mere sand and surf. It's probably the most pagan place a white person can ever go "vist on a lark"....Not condemning the poor lost souls who actually live there.
Just feeling sorry for the poor lost souls who still wish to go there to wallow in hedonism and a cheap holiday after all the blood-letting that has been and will continue to go on there.
(BTW: I live close by. [not in Australia] I've been there before the bombings, and it's no place for an Adventist, unless God sends you there on with the Message.)

Excuse me, but what are you saying? So if a darker colored person went there on a lark it would not be so bad? Darker persons are so much more pagan, is it? I wonder how you would describe those Norse gods? Christian?

Why you were there?

 

[HoneyDew]

Weeeelll....Imagine Hawaii with it's original pagan culture fully and operationally intact, plus the high rise hotels, plus total heaps of booze and dope, and all of it far far from home, but still everybody speaks English, plus everything is 1/5 the cost of home, plus a sweet and fatalistic people, who will do ANYTHING for money, cause they can offer a bit of rice an flowers to the Hindu gods, and their karma is cleaned up (they hope!).....and you may get a glimpse....Oh! And did I mention world class surfing, scuba, volcanoes and batik and ...well you see the hook.

No wonder the missionaries and "discoverers" had a hard time converting the natives to Christianity. They had to kill a lot of pagans to get that Christianity concept in the cultures.
The poor of this world who are offered a chance to make money to feed and clothe themselves and their children, will do anything to LIVE. How do you explain the Donald Trumps of this world?

 

[Vaudois]

Umm...Actually, Honeydew...the "white person" had to to with the fact that the holiday-makers stand out as targets because they are "orang putih" (white people) in contrast to locals, "orang jahiliah" (idol worshipping people).
Also the vast majority of tourists are white that go to Bali, seeing that very few other "flavors" of folks seem to have much time, money or interest in the place ( sprinkling of nouvelle riche Asians being the exception, Japanese in particular, since they "dig" the Shinto-style temples of the Balinese Hindus).
I was not even suggesting that non-whites are more pagan than whites; I would survived 10 nano-seconds with that sort of racist illusion in the mission field.
Rather I assert that paganism in all it's twisted manifestations is pan culture, pan racial, pan educational.
The Devil is an equal opportunity destroyer.

 

[Vaudois]

As for missionaries "killing to convert": I think we have to discuss that one with "Christian civilization" empire promoters of other denominations, not SDAs.

 

[HoneyDew]

Interesting ...

 

[payattention]

As for missionaries "killing to convert": I think we have to discuss that one with "Christian civilization" empire promoters of other denominations, not SDAs.

Sometimes we claim to be in the same line. How do we decide?

 

[payattention]

Umm...Actually, Honeydew...the "white person" had to to with the fact that the holiday-makers stand out as targets because they are "orang putih" (white people) in contrast to locals, "orang jahiliah" (idol worshipping people).
< snip>
I was not even suggesting that non-whites are more pagan than whites; I would survived 10 nano-seconds with that sort of racist illusion in the mission field.
Rather I assert that paganism in all it's twisted manifestations is pan culture, pan racial, pan educational.
The Devil is an equal opportunity destroyer.

I certainly am glad we cleared that up because it came close to making my blood boil.

Now we can deal with more crucial issues. How we define 'idol' and 'pagan?' How may professed Christians are actually worshipping idols? And if paganism is a failure to recognize the true Creator, how is that different from the present condition of many Christians?

 

[Vaudois]

Sometimes we claim to be in the same line. How do we decide?

"We" meaning SDAs, or American SDAs or Australian SDAs, or Lithuanian SDAs???

The "conversions" wrought by empires and "christian nations" of the 16th through the 19th centuries were ploys of nationalists, with "good church folk" in tow as "exporters" of their cultures, which they viewed as "christian".

The fruits of these actions are ripening now; since Adventism is actually non-national in fact (there will be no ghettos or flags in the New Jerusalem; best ditch those concepts... pronto!), any tilting of the 3 Angels Message to a political-cultural slant will be unplugged by the Lord Himself.

 

[payattention]

"We" meaning SDAs, or American SDAs or Australian SDAs, or Lithuanian SDAs???

The "conversions" wrought by empires and "christian nations" of the 16th through the 19th centuries were ploys of nationalists, with "good church folk" in tow as "exporters" of their cultures, which they viewed as "christian".

The fruits of these actions are ripening now; since Adventism is actually non-national in fact (there will be no ghettos or flags in the New Jerusalem; best ditch those concepts... pronto!), any tilting of the 3 Angels Message to a political-cultural slant will be unplugged by the Lord Himself.

I detect a disconnect. First, you would disassociate God from the efforts of these Medieval Christians but you then attempt to burden Him with our interpretation of the work of the three angels. Even your language is difficult. There were three angels each with a message. This means we have Three Angels' Messages not a Three Angels Message. It is not a single message by three angels nor is it a message about three angels. Then, we have the problem of the two angels in the latter part of the same chapter.

 

[Cliff2]

To start with the people that live in Bali from what reports I have read are very nice people. It is a tourist place and those that have money to spare go there to spend it.

The operators of many of the attractions are not locals, although they would employ locals to work there.

We see in the paper time after time of reports that Australian men go over there and con local families into allowing their under age children to work for them or coach them in a sport and then the poor kids are "abused".

 

[Vaudois]

Yes, that's very true, Cliff2.
The jist of my newby posts is this:

Muslim fanatics target "decadent infidels" in a idol worshipping sub-culture, hooked on tourist money, which mostly comes from Occidental (is that more PC for everyone?) holiday makers. They have targeted Bali before, so it was no surprise to us here that they would do it again.
It's as 1, 2, 3 as a smoker in a fireworks shop.
I feel for the dead and wounded of any nation; my Adventism knows no racial/cultural/national bounds.

As for what constitutes "pagan" and "idols": Why not open a thread and let's discuss it? If you want to include one's love of one's Vette, or stick to the more pragmatic definitions of idols and the rise of real world pagandom of modern times, that's cool with me.

 

[StormyOne]

Yes, that's very true, Cliff2.
The jist of my newby posts is this:

Muslim fanatics target "decadent infidels" in a idol worshipping sub-culture, hooked on tourist money, which mostly comes from Occidental (is that more PC for everyone?) holiday makers. They have targeted Bali before, so it was no surprise to us here that they would do it again.
It's as 1, 2, 3 as a smoker in a fireworks shop.
I feel for the dead and wounded of any nation; my Adventism knows no racial/cultural/national bounds.

As for what constitutes "pagan" and "idols": Why not open a thread and let's discuss it? If you want to include one's love of one's Vette, or stick to the more pragmatic definitions of idols and the rise of real world pagandom of modern times, that's cool with me.

Hey, hey, hey... leave the vette's alone... Although maybe we could also address how people state that they "love" something that is inanimate.... i.e. I love this car, I love this house, I love this church, etc..... I don't get it....