Balance?

[James_Lai]

Again I disagree. There's a difference between experiencing physical and emotional suffering and being unhappy. It's like saying that I'm cold, therefore I'm unhappy. Or I'm hungry, therefore I'm unhappy. Or I've been treated unfairly, therefore I'm unhappy. You don't always get to choose your circumstances, but you do get to choose whether those circumstances make you unhappy.

So if you're unhappy it's because you chose to be.

I know what you’re talking about. It’s a very popular idea today. Positive thinking - can’t change circumstances, change attitude. It doesn’t really reflect reality.

Works for some people in more or less manageable situations.

Psychological tools are great to cope, but they are not all-powerful. It’s like a kid closing their eyes: saves from a horror move scene but not from a house fire

 

[partinobodycular]

Like the story of Job is a great metaphor. Lose loved ones, lose property, get sick, be tortured mentally by so-called friends. Hell on earth! It’s version lite though, “PG censored”. Real life stuff can exceed this scenario many fold…

Yet none of this stuff requires you to be unhappy. It doesn't matter whether it's a bad hair day or your family died, all of these things are a part of life. Once you can accept that adversity is a part of life, and not even an unfortunate part, then there's no reason for them to make you unhappy other than you choose to let them make you unhappy.

That's the lesson of Job..life happens...and it's not always peaches and cream, but it is if correctly appreciated tremendously uplifting and rewarding, not so much in spite of the suffering, but because of it.

 

[James_Lai]

Yet none of this stuff requires you to be unhappy. It doesn't matter whether it's a bad hair day or your family died, all of these things a part of life. Once you can accept that adversity is a part of life, and not even an unfortunate part, then there's no reason for them to make you unhappy other than you choose to let them make you unhappy.

That's the lesson of Job..life happens...and it's not always peaches and cream, but it is if correctly appreciated tremendously uplifting and rewarding, not so much in spite of the suffering, but because of it.

Job gave in to it all right, and it’s natural and healthy. God does want us to suffer, or how else can we ever learn??

Even those who hold to positive thinking mantra do suffer. It’s inevitable. On the surface they may look brave and smiling, but deep down they suffer. Being truly happy regardless of circumstances is fiction. It’s self-control of the mind, and it goes only thus far.

Jesus before the cross, who could be stronger than God in the flesh? Sweating the sweats of blood… Why didn’t He use this positive attitude trick?

Those who escape from suffering to an imaginary happy place don’t properly process suffering. A good weep provides much needed relief, for example.. “No I’m happy” denial can have a long-lasting effect mentally, in the nervous and digestive systems, fall to addictions and more. One of the reasons men live shorter lives than women, culture prevents them from being emotional. Carrying burdens silently and alone…

 

[Niels]

I think happiness largely depends on what one prioritizes within a given context. It is also something that is better achieved when not pursued directly. This is one reason why thrill seekers who "chase the dragon", or those who narrowly insist on one or two things for their happiness, are rarely happy in the long run. Without balance, it isn't sustainable.

To an extent, I agree with those who say happiness is a choice. What we choose to prioritize can be nearly as important to our mental state as the circumstances that we find ourselves in. If somebody otherwise has it all, but they're focused on one little thing that irritates them, they're going to be upset. Conversely, having a good cup of coffee, despite being in the midst of a war, might bring joy to a soldier. It's also possible to find happiness in an uneventful day.

It does help to set the stage, of course. Much suffering can be avoided through diligence and careful planning. It's helpful to pick our battles to the extent that we can. Although focusing on good things when we find them and taking steps to avoid suffering doesn't guarantee happiness, doing so can increase the odds that we will find it.

 

[James_Lai]

I think happiness largely depends on what one prioritizes within a given context. It is also something that is better achieved when not pursued directly. This is one reason why thrill seekers who "chase the dragon", or those who narrowly insist on one or two things for their happiness, are rarely happy in the long run. Without balance, it isn't sustainable.

To an extent, I agree with those who say happiness is a choice. What we choose to prioritize can be nearly as important to our mental state as the circumstances that we find ourselves in. If somebody otherwise has it all, but they're focused on one little thing that irritates them, they're going to be upset. Conversely, having a good cup of coffee, despite being in the midst of a war, might bring joy to a soldier. It's also possible to find happiness in an uneventful day.

It does help to set the stage, of course. Much suffering can be avoided through diligence and careful planning. It's helpful to pick our battles to the extent that we can. Although focusing on good things when we find them and taking steps to avoid suffering doesn't guarantee happiness, doing so can increase the odds that we will find it.

Lots of wisdom there

In the OP I look at Happiness in a very narrow sense - lack of suffering, highest level of comfort and health, fulfillment of most wishes and desires. Maybe calling it Happiness is somewhat misleading. Well-being, satisfaction, or Sufferingless Life perhaps are better terms for that, but I think most people for practical intents and purposes would say Happiness in this sense.

I talk about very fundamental goal for humanity as a whole.

 

[partinobodycular]

Truly happy regardless of circumstances is fiction.

For you it's fiction, for me it's not.

In life there are a number of adversities that we must all endure. Some we accept without question because they're common to everyone. We have to obey our parents. We have to go to school. We have to get a job. But these things don't make us unhappy because we realize that they're just a part of life. Everyone has to go through them. So we don't feel that they're unjust.

And then there are those adversities that we endure not because we have to, but because we choose to. Like having kids. Or attending a church. Or volunteering to help the homeless. These things don't make us unhappy either because we choose to do them. We're not forced to do them.

But then there's the third type of adversity. The type that isn't common to everyone, and that we don't choose. Like being born with a deformity. Or having a family member die of cancer. Or being discriminated against. These things aren't fair, and they aren't chosen, and these are the things that are most likely to make us unhappy. But if you can learn that these things are just as much a part of life as the others are, then you'll realize that these things can be just as rewarding as the others are.

It's just that we see some things as being unfair and unjust, as being something that we don't deserve. And we allow these things to make us unhappy. We don't deserve to be cold. We don't deserve to be hungry. We don't deserve to be poor. But if you can learn to accept that life is full of things that we don't deserve, and the measure of a person isn't how they act when things are fair, but how they act when they're not, then you can begin to see the value in the hard times as well as the good times. And you become a person who's character and who's happiness isn't dependent upon their circumstances, but rather it's dependent upon their character.

When you can be happy when the circumstances say that you shouldn't be, and when you can have faith when the circumstances say that you shouldn't, then you've learned the lesson of Job.

 

[James_Lai]

For you it's fiction, for me it's not.

In life there are a number of adversities that we must all endure. Some we accept without question because they're common to everyone. We have to obey our parents. We have to go to school. We have to get a job. But these things don't make us unhappy because we realize that they're just a part of life. Everyone has to go through them. So we don't feel that they're unjust.

And then there are those adversities that we endure not because we have to, but because we choose to. Like having kids. Or attending a church. Or volunteering to help the homeless. These things don't make us unhappy either because we choose to do them. We're not forced to do them.

But then there's the third type of adversity. The type that isn't common to everyone, and that we don't choose. Like being born with a deformity. Or having a family member die of cancer. Or being discriminated against. These things aren't fair, and they aren't chosen, and these are the things that are most likely to make us unhappy. But if you can learn that these things are just as much a part of life as the others are, then you'll realize that these things can be just as rewarding as the others are.

It's just that we see some things as being unfair and unjust, as being something that we don't deserve. And we allow these things to make us unhappy. We don't deserve to be cold. We don't deserve to be hungry. We don't deserve to be poor. But if you can learn to accept that life is full of things that we don't deserve, and the measure of a person isn't how they act when things are fair, but how they act when they're not, then you can begin to see the value in the hard times as well as the good times. And you become a person who's character and who's happiness isn't dependent upon their circumstances, but rather it's dependent upon their character.

When you can be happy when the circumstances say that you shouldn't be, and when you can have faith when the circumstances say that you shouldn't, then you've learned the lesson of Job.

Thank you for more detailed explanation of positive thinking. Good read. Again, I do know what you are talking about. It’s a useful mechanism to cope psychotheraputicaly.

It does have limits, our mind isn’t all-powerful.

Just food for thought: neurophysiology teaches us that our conscious mind is only a small fragment of our mind. A very important one, but not the most important in all situations. Even if you pretend that everything is good when it’s not, there’s parts of you that disagree weather you want it or not. Like the subconscious mind and deeper and more primitively the vegetative nervous system.

People often chose to block out negative experiences as an effective coping mechanism short-term - escapism. Processing them properly is the best way responding to them long-term for best outcome.

A classic example is PTSD - months and years past traumatic experiences, no matter how positively you place your mind towards those experiences, you continue to suffer serious effects from them. No way to control it consciously. It takes some serious and very painful work over a prolong time to properly uncover and process them, such as being forced to relive them and acknowledge the source of your pain and obtain closure. Very hard. No guarantees of 100% cure. May end up chemically pacifying the consequences. Through self-medication or psychoactive prescription drugs with all kinds of side-effects…

 

[Uber Genius]

Just to add. If we lived in a world of endless and easily accessible resources and all people having equal characteristics, then maybe yes we could maybe try to pursue such goal. But in our world where everything is scarcely limited and unequal, and every living thing is interdependent on every other living thing such goal is pure suicide.

Not at all sure about this proposition. What does equal characteristics mean? I don't assume inequity has much at all to do with happiness. We find that 1.6 billion people have moved into the middle class since the 1990s due to the elimination of socialism in China (1975) and in India (1994?) they are certainly happier to get paid based on their differentiated (not equal) skills, and differentiated (not equal) effort.

In fact, we can look at a country like Venezuela, the richest country in Latin America in 1998 became the poorest, most dangerous, least healthy, in just 20 years of socialism! So the whole ending inequality has produced about 45 countries grabbing money and power and focusing that in less than 1/100th of the population at the expense of the other 99%!

On all measure; GDP, health measures, basic education, basic safety and yes their happiness these socialist utopias devolve rather than improve the human condition.

 

[Bradskii]

Yes. Common sense. Nothing much could be added to that. Unless we discover ways to seriously spread our reach to outer worlds or other dimensions, this is our fate.

Considering our modern knowledge that the program of Happiness Above All being a pathway to self-destruction, do you think we should correct the notions of the ancient generations? They viewed the planet as eternal source or resources and all people potentially reaching equality. Not how it turned out to be! We are witnesses of that today

I guess we could be described as a work in progress.

 

[James_Lai]

Not at all sure about this proposition. What does equal characteristics mean? I don't assume inequity has much at all to do with happiness. We find that 1.6 billion people have moved into the middle class since the 1990s due to the elimination of socialism in China (1975) and in India (1994?) they are certainly happier to get paid based on their differentiated (not equal) skills, and differentiated (not equal) effort.

In fact, we can look at a country like Venezuela, the richest country in Latin America in 1998 became the poorest, most dangerous, least healthy, in just 20 years of socialism! So the whole ending inequality has produced about 45 countries grabbing money and power and focusing that in less than 1/100th of the population at the expense of the other 99%!

On all measure; GDP, health measures, basic education, basic safety and yes their happiness these socialist utopias devolve rather than improve the human condition.

I wasn’t talking about economics at all. And yes modern Socialism is a very bad system that kills motivation and brings about corruption like no other. I was taking about innate inequality of people like tall and short, weak and strong, intelligent and not so, musically gifted and deaf, attractive and ugly, healthy and sick etc. That is, people naturally have unequal chances in competition for survival, procreation, avoiding suffering.

 

[James_Lai]

I guess we could be described as a work in progress.

How far into this progress? Any hope for us, you think?

 

[James_Lai]

A clarification: by Happiness I don’t mean an internal feeling of bliss and content, but objective absence of suffering. Being in comfort and safety, no illness or adequate support in illness or disability, plenty of food, equal and ample opportunities for expressing yourself and for consumption to your heart’s content - etc that kind of thing. More of a physical well-being, not in the sense of having a mentally pleasant state thanks to favourable situation or despite any unfavourable circumstances.

 

[Bradskii]

How far into this progress? Any hope for us, you think?

We're taking baby steps. Not long out of the trees. And yeah, I'm a glass half full type of guy.

 

[Unqualified]

Thank you for more detailed explanation of positive thinking. Good read. Again, I do know what you are talking about. It’s a useful mechanism to cope psychotheraputicaly.

It does have limits, our mind isn’t all-powerful.

Just food for thought: neurophysiology teaches us that our conscious mind is only a small fragment of our mind. A very important one, but not the most important in all situations. Even if you pretend that everything is good when it’s not, there’s parts of you that disagree weather you want it or not. Like the subconscious mind and deeper and more primitively the vegetative nervous system.

People often chose to block out negative experiences as an effective coping mechanism short-term - escapism. Processing them properly is the best way responding to them long-term for best outcome.

A classic example is PTSD - months and years past traumatic experiences, no matter how positively you place your mind towards those experiences, you continue to suffer serious effects from them. No way to control it consciously. It takes some serious and very painful work over a prolong time to properly uncover and process them, such as being forced to relive them and acknowledge the source of your pain and obtain closure. Very hard. No guarantees of 100% cure. May end up chemically pacifying the consequences. Through self-medication or psychoactive prescription drugs with all kinds of side-effects…

You forget the power of God in our suffering and everyday lives. God plus anything means wholeness.

 

[Trusting in Him]

You are right. We are all trying to fill ourselves with things that never last, and are only temporary. Things that will satisfy us for a period of time, but will eventually run out. For example some people may feel lonely, depressed, so they start drinking, partying, hanging up with the wrong people, and once that satisfaction runs out they do even more stupid things i.e. take drugs etc.

The only thing that can satisfy us and last forever is an intimate relationship with God, which never ends. It is the only thing that truly matters. In 2018 I was diagnosed with a massive brain tumour, big enough to press on my brain, and almost kill me. Just before I was diagnosed, I had all sorts of health issues and I was convinced I was not going to make it. And let me tell you, nothing mattered in that time, it did not matter what my job was, or how much money I had, it did not matter what family I had, how I lived, how much fun I had, nothing mattered as nothing could save me. The brain tumour was a blessing from God who showed me that He is the only one that matters.

I am not saying, do not have a family, or quit your job, or give all your money, no, but all these things are worthless without God, for they will pass away. I am 30 next month, single and everyone keeps asking me when I am getting married, that I need to have kids etc. But to me it does not matter. Sure I would love a Christian wife, but if I never get married...oh well...as long as I love God and do His will, is all that matters to me, and then God can decide what He will add to my life.

I suspect that you can probably also understand how I feel about things that have happened to me during my life. Happyness, does not necessarily make us realise just how much that we need to have God in our lives and that without God, all the rest just counts for nothing at all. What does happiness count for without God, if it means that we are going to a lost eternity without Him?

 

[Robban]

I know what you’re talking about. It’s a very popular idea today. Positive thinking - can’t change circumstances, change attitude. It doesn’t really reflect reality.

Works for some people in more or less manageable situations.

Psychological tools are great to cope, but they are not all-powerful. It’s like a kid closing their eyes: saves from a horror move scene but not from a house fire

Happiness wears off quickly, it is based on pleasure.

Quoting a famous teaching of the third Lubavitcher Rebbe,

"Think good and it will be good."

"Think positive and the outcome will be positive."

Joy is,

"Serve the Lord your God with joy"

With willingness come rain or shine.

Joy is based on giving of oneself.

 

[Robban]

Happiness wears off quickly, it is based on pleasure.

Quoting a famous teaching of the third Lubavitcher Rebbe,

"Think good and it will be good."

"Think positive and the outcome will be positive."

Joy is,

"Serve the Lord your God with joy"

With willingness come rain or shine.

Joy is based on giving of oneself.

Just to say, I am not there yet, not fully, it is a journey.

But, joy is central to connect to God,
in everything you do-----------

eating, sleeping, buisness and even leisure activities-

all it takes is the right intentions,

if so, "Serve God with joy."

Applies to all times and every situation.

Again, I myself am not there yet, but life is full of surprises.

 

[SkyWriting]

The bible tell us that "In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." (John 16:33)

Perhaps expecting anything else is just wishful thinking, but what do I know? I'm almost 70 years old and I have survived many serious problems with my health, I never asked for any of them, but I have managed to be content with my lot.

What else am I supposed to be expected to do? If I am to believe that God is in control, then I guess it must be intended for a purpose and for my ultimate good. Why should I complain? Sorry, but I'm not much good at the deeply philosophical stuff!

Jesus overcame this world and set up a new one for believers.
That's where our joy is destined to be fulfilled.

In My Father's House are Many Rooms
1“Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe in Me as well. 2In My Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and welcome you into My presence, so that you also may be where I am.

 

[Trusting in Him]

None of us came into this world by our own choice and none of us will necessarily depart this world by our own choice, or in the manner that we would necessarily choose. God has already determined these things. He is soveriegn and always will be! We have not been created to live according to our own deterinate wills, but we are here to learn submission to God by our own free will and choice.

It is a choice to give our lives to Him and accept Him as our Lord and master. He gave His life for us that we might understand that He loves us and has paid the price of our redemption and salvation. It is a full and free salvation, if we are willing to receive it rightly. Is it an accident that we can to know that there is a God, when so many around us do not believe that there is a holy, righteous and loving God, who has paid the price that we might one day be called to live in His presence?

What is earthly happiness worth compared to an eternity in hell, when compared to living as overcomers on the earth seeking to live before Him and to His glory and to one day be called into His presence when this earthy life is over. It has been my lot to potentially look death in the face three times, but inspite of all this to survive and so far to continue to live. God has shown me mercy and as of yet, He has not finished with me in this life.

I cannot tell you how much such experinces have changed my perspective on what this life means to me. Happiness for me is not tied up in experiences and enjoyment of unimportant pleasures. Real happiness for me is about relationships and that is the only happiness which means anything worth living for. My heart attack could have killed me and both of my strokes could also have killed me. It will always be miraculous to me that I have survived and yes, I know that it is God alone that gifts us with those mighty miracles. He alone is God and that's that!

Positive thinking has nothing to do with it at all. We are called to trust Him and to live a life of faith in Him.

 

[Trusting in Him]

Just to say, I am not there yet, not fully, it is a journey.

But, joy is central to connect to God,
in everything you do-----------

eating, sleeping, buisness and even leisure activities-

all it takes is the right intentions,

if so, "Serve God with joy."

Applies to all times and every situation.

Again, I myself am not there yet, but life is full of surprises.

Yes, "The joy of The Lord shall be your strength" (Nehemiah 8:10)