Balance?

[James_Lai]

I think you make some excellent points! Anything can be bad for us if it becomes the central focus of our lives and consumes us. Even "healthy" food can become unhealthy if its consumed in excessive quantities. In much the same way, the human obsession with building happy lives and reaching the mythological "utopia" state has truly deluded many in our society. There are countless millions who believe that if we just did A, B, and C then we would all live in perpetual happiness. This line of thinking ignores the fact that suffering is a reality and is necessary because without suffering, we would not recognize the opposing side of the spectrum.

I'd love to see more recognition of the realities of the world and that we can strive to be happy but with an understanding that its impossible to be happy all the time. Pain, suffering, loss, and misery is the nature of a broken world and when we learn to exist within that understanding and lean on God to carry us, we can start to find true happiness even in the darkest times of our lives.

Very few people realize that and their voices are weak…

 

[o_mlly]

Even in faith, a paradise on earth, a Utopian society of universal bliss and prosperity. In politics as well, keep everyone happy and content.

All animate objects seek salvation, a contented co-existence with their environment consistent with the plan of their Creator. The non-human animal is content if its physiological needs—its hunger, thirst and its sexual needs—are satisfied. Since I am an animal, I also have these needs and seek to satisfy them.

But, inasmuch as I am human, the satisfaction of these instinctual needs is not sufficient to make me content; they are not even sufficient to make me sane. Born into this world at a time and place not of my choosing, I realize I will leave in much the same manner. The animal “is lived” through the biological laws of nature and is in harmony with the world, never needing to transcend it. Humans, “life aware of itself”, know themselves to be in the world but not of the world; partly divine, partly animal; partly infinite, partly finite.

The contradictions and contingency of my existence cause me anxiety and create my need to find ever-higher forms of unity with the world, with others, and with my Creator. I seek perfection. This impulse to understand the world, the Creator’s plan for me in this world, and to do so within a frame of reference that is always in the world, requires that I somehow make the Transcendent immanent; make God immanent in me.

 

[James_Lai]

The bible tell us that "In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." (John 16:33)

Perhaps expecting anything else is just wishful thinking, but what do I know? I'm almost 70 years old and I have survived many serious problems with my health, I never asked for any of them, but I have managed to be content with my lot.

What else am I supposed to be expected to do? If I am to believe that God is in control, then I guess it must be intended for a purpose and for my ultimate good. Why should I complain? Sorry, but I'm not much good at the deeply philosophical stuff!

This question isn’t deeply philosophical as it has direct practical application I think.

Happiness is the highest goal or value for us as humans today. To be in Balance I think is wiser and better than to strive to Happiness in the sense of lack of or minimization or suffering. Our compassionate nature revolts against the notion of necessary suffering. “How come? It’s so unfair and cruel!” We brought this principle to the absurdity. Now to keep each human happy and content all the time, we are willing to end humanity and doom our offspring to the worst suffering this planet has seen…

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

Hello.
So for many millennia people all over the world have strived for Happiness - absence of any kind of suffering. I can relate, as who likes to suffer?

My questions is philosophical I guess: haven’t we made a fatal mistake as a species to seek Happiness as the highest goal? Even in faith, a paradise on earth, a Utopian society of universal bliss and prosperity. In politics as well, keep everyone happy and content.

Shouldn’t we strive for Balance, as everywhere we look in God’s Creation we see that as the golden rule of operation? Wolves and hares, winter and summer, weeds and wheat… It’s never “all you can eat to your heart’s content”. It’s “you hunger today, but you eat tomorrow, so that someone else can eat today and hunger tomorrow”…

Being out of balance and believing in endless consumption for comfort and health is a delusion that brings us to the brink of extinction.

Should humanity realize they have been wrong all along? Better late than never.

What do you think??

You are right. We are all trying to fill ourselves with things that never last, and are only temporary. Things that will satisfy us for a period of time, but will eventually run out. For example some people may feel lonely, depressed, so they start drinking, partying, hanging up with the wrong people, and once that satisfaction runs out they do even more stupid things i.e. take drugs etc.

The only thing that can satisfy us and last forever is an intimate relationship with God, which never ends. It is the only thing that truly matters. In 2018 I was diagnosed with a massive brain tumour, big enough to press on my brain, and almost kill me. Just before I was diagnosed, I had all sorts of health issues and I was convinced I was not going to make it. And let me tell you, nothing mattered in that time, it did not matter what my job was, or how much money I had, it did not matter what family I had, how I lived, how much fun I had, nothing mattered as nothing could save me. The brain tumour was a blessing from God who showed me that He is the only one that matters.

I am not saying, do not have a family, or quit your job, or give all your money, no, but all these things are worthless without God, for they will pass away. I am 30 next month, single and everyone keeps asking me when I am getting married, that I need to have kids etc. But to me it does not matter. Sure I would love a Christian wife, but if I never get married...oh well...as long as I love God and do His will, is all that matters to me, and then God can decide what He will add to my life.

 

[Unqualified]

Every century church groups declared the signs only to be proven wrong

I don’t agree with that. Israel has never been a nation again since 70 ad. Happiness is over rated but a lasting joy even in your trials is to be sought after. Why do you believe men and not God? I relationship with God is like sugar with a bitter pill. It’s so easy to be negative about the Lord, but hope will get you through your life, and a lack of hope should lead you to Jesus.

 

[James_Lai]

You are right. We are all trying to fill ourselves with things that never last, and are only temporary. Things that will satisfy us for a period of time, but will eventually run out. For example some people may feel lonely, depressed, so they start drinking, partying, hanging up with the wrong people, and once that satisfaction runs out they do even more stupid things i.e. take drugs etc.

The only thing that can satisfy us and last forever is an intimate relationship with God, which never ends. It is the only thing that truly matters. In 2018 I was diagnosed with a massive brain tumour, big enough to press on my brain, and almost kill me. Just before I was diagnosed, I had all sorts of health issues and I was convinced I was not going to make it. And let me tell you, nothing mattered in that time, it did not matter what my job was, or how much money I had, it did not matter what family I had, how I lived, how much fun I had, nothing mattered as nothing could save me. The brain tumour was a blessing from God who showed me that He is the only one that matters.

I am not saying, do not have a family, or quit your job, or give all your money, no, but all these things are worthless without God, for they will pass away. I am 30 next month, single and everyone keeps asking me when I am getting married, that I need to have kids etc. But to me it does not matter. Sure I would love a Christian wife, but if I never get married...oh well...as long as I love God and do His will, is all that matters to me, and then God can decide what He will add to my life.

I’m so glad you’re alive!!! Hold on, brother. Yes a near-death experience tends to put things into the right perspective… I hear you as I’ve been experiencing smth similar, not as dramatic though. I looked death straight into the eye and it really changed me to the core. I re-evaluated many things I used to hold dear and not anymore

 

[James_Lai]

All animate objects seek salvation, a contented co-existence with their environment consistent with the plan of their Creator. The non-human animal is content if its physiological needs—its hunger, thirst and its sexual needs—are satisfied. Since I am an animal, I also have these needs and seek to satisfy them.

But, inasmuch as I am human, the satisfaction of these instinctual needs is not sufficient to make me content; they are not even sufficient to make me sane. Born into this world at a time and place not of my choosing, I realize I will leave in much the same manner. The animal “is lived” through the biological laws of nature and is in harmony with the world, never needing to transcend it. Humans, “life aware of itself”, know themselves to be in the world but not of the world; partly divine, partly animal; partly infinite, partly finite.

The contradictions and contingency of my existence cause me anxiety and create my need to find ever-higher forms of unity with the world, with others, and with my Creator. I seek perfection. This impulse to understand the world, the Creator’s plan for me in this world, and to do so within a frame of reference that is always in the world, requires that I somehow make the Transcendent immanent; make God immanent in me.

Yes this is great. External and internal. Physical and spiritual. Superficial and deep inner.

However I talk about practical application of Happiness.

Absolutely true, one can be devoid of all suffering and be bitterly unhappy. Look at sour face expressions of billionaires and smiling poor rice farmers in Karnataka - speaks volumes!!!

Despite this obvious contradiction, humanity is stubbornly mistaken to propose and push Happiness as physical and mental bliss and prosperity, comfort and health as The Ultimate Goal. It’s total madness I think

 

[partinobodycular]

People are unhappy simply because they choose to be.

 

[James_Lai]

People are unhappy simply because they choose to be.

Not always. We don’t control all circumstances. If you are more or less okay and your troubles are more or less manageable, one can mentally adjust attitude.

There can come a time, though, when suffering is inevitable despite any attempt to modulate your response

 

[James_Lai]

Scripturally, the world you describe is the fallen world - the world tainted by Adamic sin. And I believe Scripture also teaches that God is in process of redeeming the fallen world, essentially seeking to get us "back to the Garden", as it were.

I see no imperative to try to "mimic" what we see in a fallen world.

What are we to mimic then, and how in light of the OP?

 

[James_Lai]

It was either Aristotle or Plato (or both) that suggested that first one requires health. Then food and shelter. And then one should develop a virtuous life. A good life. Which required work, knowledge, a broadening of one's horizons. Which would lead to happiness. Better described as contentedness.

Yes. Common sense. Nothing much could be added to that. Unless we discover ways to seriously spread our reach to outer worlds or other dimensions, this is our fate.

Considering our modern knowledge that the program of Happiness Above All being a pathway to self-destruction, do you think we should correct the notions of the ancient generations? They viewed the planet as eternal source or resources and all people potentially reaching equality. Not how it turned out to be! We are witnesses of that today

 

[expos4ever]

What are we to mimic then, and how in light of the OP?

We are certainly not to mimic nature as it is, in my opinion - nature works substantially on power relationships, and I believe that is decidedly anti-gospel. I know this may sound simplistic and / or trite, but we should pursue the "kingdom of God" principles that Jesus espoused.

 

[James_Lai]

Here is another thought: "Suffering" is our response to facts of life. Perhaps we can modulate our response to these facts and diminish our suffering. Like Jesus said, "I have overcome the world."

Yes this is a great advice and we all do it at some point to cope. There’s limits to this approach I think, because as much as suffering has a mental component to it, it still is a very real and objective factor in our lives. Can be relative only to a certain degree…

My question is not to the individual so much, but to us as the global human civilization. You know, ideas and goals might work for you and me in some place and time, but when multiplied by 7+ billion and over all kinds if situations and over time becomes a real problem.

We clearly see where the pursuit of Happiness leads us to. Conflict, destruction of the environment, disease, so much unnecessary strive, a looming extinction even in the extreme scenarios… Is it really worth it? Is it what we wanted? The result defeats the purpose…

Do we have to change direction? Re-evaluate what’s important?

 

[James_Lai]

We are certainly not to mimic nature as it is, in my opinion - nature works substantially on power relationships, and I believe that is decidedly anti-gospel. I know this may sound simplistic and / or trite, but we should pursue the "kingdom of God" principles that Jesus espoused.

I understand and believe me, emotionally I support you with all my heart as it’s hard not to if you have even a drop of compassion. But this is not an answer to the OP. It’s about a very sobering realization “pleasing everybody all the time” doesn’t work. I think it should be pretty obvious to us today.

Balance is limits. It’s healthy. It’s our only hope in the practical sense. Would you agree?

We lie to our kids passing down the ideals of “Happinness and Equality for All, All The Time” because with this ideal we are leading them to a world of horror in the actual fact.

 

[James_Lai]

BTW it is claimed that the people who currently rule the world propose a solution... Their motto is “You’ll owe nothing and be happy about it”. Seems like socialist Utopia with centrally rationed consumption, but who knows. They don’t explain how they want this achieved, so it could be something reasonable or totally sinister, I don’t know. Also, I don’t subscribe to any theory about people who rule the world behind the scenes. I just remembered of this WEF agenda as it seems to be an attempt to solve the issue in the OP

 

[expos4ever]

Balance is limits. It’s healthy. It’s our only hope in the practical sense. Would you agree?

No, I would not agree. When you write about "Wolves and hares, winter and summer, weeds and wheat… ", I infer that you are saying that we should mimic the "powerful wolf kills weak hare" pattern, or that we should accept "weeds" among the wheat.

Why should we do that - Jesus would never endorse the of raw power to achieve goals. Nor would he, I think, say that we need to accept the "weeds" (I see the "weeds among the wheat' image as a metaphor about tolerating evil).

Maybe I misunderstand you. As far a pursuing happiness is concerned, I see that as a different matter and would agree that we should not make pursuit of happiness primary (although it is worth pursuing, subject to certain restrictions).

 

[James_Lai]

No, I would not agree. When you write about "Wolves and hares, winter and summer, weeds and wheat… ", I infer that you are saying that we should mimic the "powerful wolf kills weak hare" pattern, or that we should accept "weeds" among the wheat.

Why should we do that - Jesus would never endorse the of raw power to achieve goals. Nor would he, I think, say that we need to accept the "weeds" (I see the "weeds among the wheat' image as a metaphor about tolerating evil).

Maybe I misunderstand you. As far a pursuing happiness is concerned, I see that as a different matter and would agree that we should not make pursuit of happiness primary (although it is worth pursuing, subject to certain restrictions).

Well, that was the question to everyone here in my OP. I only see a problem, I don’t propose a concrete solution. I really don’t know. I’m trying to make sense of this all… Like a newborn who appeared on this mad planet…

One thing is obvious: because the situation in the world has deteriorated to the point where it is today, to undo millennia of error is not a simple feat… Maybe there’s no solution to unwind this knot apart from letting the events run their course to some point in the future where there would be a natural reset to our civilization. After many a cataclysmic disasters and mass extinctions of the human population, of course.

Then the only sensible thing we could do now is to try and formulate new principles of existence that value moderation, limits, balance and acceptance of suffering as inevitable part of this Creation. Maybe our far descendants would somehow remember this advice and heed to it. Though we know oh so well that new generations rarely learn from the mistakes of their parents… Fallen or not, this world is our home, and if we want to make the best of our lives, we absolutely have to obey the laws that govern it - God given laws.

Maybe the ancient Mayans knew something we’re yet to re-discover and that humans are bound to develop and fall in perpetual cycles such as of 5200 years in length, reaching the top of development only to become victims of their success and be thrown back to square one if they’re lucky. Maybe humans are intrinsically incapable of stepping up to a higher level of development where they could form a kind of eusocial structure such as ants or bees. I guess it’s so contrary to our nature.

 

[partinobodycular]

Not always. We don’t control all circumstances.

I disagree. I think happiness is always a choice. It's only a matter of circumstances if you choose to make it a matter of circumstances. In which case you've set yourself up for potentially always being miserable, with no one to blame but yourself. After all you're the one who decided what circumstances are required to make you unhappy. Nobody else did that. It's all on you. So just decide to be happy no matter what the circumstances are and then miraculously nothing can possibly happen to make you unhappy.

If you ain't dead then it's all good, and if you are then all that other stuff probably doesn't matter anyway. So if you get up in the morning and you aren't dead then it's a wonderful day.

 

[James_Lai]

I disagree. I think happiness is always a choice. It's only a matter of circumstances if you choose to make it a matter of circumstances. In which case you've set yourself up for potentially always being miserable, with no one to blame but yourself. After all you're the one who decided what circumstances are required to make you unhappy. Nobody else did that. It's all on you. So just decide to be happy no matter what the circumstances are and then miraculously nothing can possibly happen to make you unhappy.

If you ain't dead then it's all good, and if you are then all that other stuff probably doesn't matter anyway. So if you get up in the morning and you aren't dead then it's a wonderful day.

It works up until some point. Our mind is indeed a very powerful tool, but far from all-powerful. There are situations where a human being will suffer no matter how much they try to feel happy about the circumstances. Those who have been there they know what I’m talking about. All people have a breaking point, unfortunately. It varies greatly between individuals, but nobody is above it.

Like the story of Job is a great metaphor. Lose loved ones, lose property, get sick, be tortured mentally by so-called friends. Hell on earth! It’s version lite though, “PG censored”. Real life stuff can exceed this scenario many fold…

 

[partinobodycular]

It works up until some point...Those who have been there they know what I’m talking about.

Again I disagree. There's a difference between experiencing physical and emotional suffering and being unhappy. It's like saying that I'm cold, therefore I'm unhappy. Or I'm hungry, therefore I'm unhappy. Or I've been treated unfairly, therefore I'm unhappy. You don't always get to choose your circumstances, but you do get to choose whether those circumstances make you unhappy.

So if you're unhappy it's because you chose to be.