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Bad Parts of Reason

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What are the downsides to reasoning? It might help to think how you'd be if you only had the ability to connect premises to conclusions. You couldn't know if those premises are true, for example.

A downside to experience is that your senses might be deceiving. A downside to intuition is that your intuition might simply be wrong. How goes it with reason?
 

BL2KTN

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That's why you reason with others to find flaws in your logic. Reasoning is the reason you and I drive cars instead of livestock, take Tylenol rather than pray for the pain to stop, and talk to others through the internet rather than only those who are directly in front of us.
 
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Jeremy E Walker

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What are the downsides to reasoning? It might help to think how you'd be if you only had the ability to connect premises to conclusions. You couldn't know if those premises are true, for example.

A downside to experience is that your senses might be deceiving. A downside to intuition is that your intuition might simply be wrong. How goes it with reason?

I believe reason is limited.
 
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Paradoxum

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What are the downsides to reasoning?

You trying to believe what is true, rather than what makes you feel good? Not that the truth will necessarily make you feel bad.

It might help to think how you'd be if you only had the ability to connect premises to conclusions. You couldn't know if those premises are true, for example.

I'd say the deductive logic is a narrow view of reason.

Can you give an example of a premise which isn't reasonable?

A downside to experience is that your senses might be deceiving. A downside to intuition is that your intuition might simply be wrong. How goes it with reason?

The sense might be deceived, but we are concerned with the world we appear to live in, and delusional experience is dealt with by multiple observances.
 
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FireDragon76

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A downside to experience is that your senses might be deceiving. A downside to intuition is that your intuition might simply be wrong. How goes it with reason?

For starters, people are not motivated to act by pure reason alone. So reason alone won't help a person navigate the emotional and affective dimensions of human life. All those clever ancient Greek philosophical justifications for why, for instance, we should not fear death ring hollow unless a person is used to repressing their own emotions or discounting the emotions of others.
 
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quatona

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What are the downsides to reasoning?
That it sometimes leads to undesirable results and insights?
It might help to think how you'd be if you only had the ability to connect premises to conclusions. You couldn't know if those premises are true, for example.
As a pragmatist, I don´t really care if the are true/True/TRUE. I just care for "what works" within that which appears to be the reality of our existence (which may, ultimately, be an illusion itself).

A downside to experience is that your senses might be deceiving.
For all intents and purposes, it is sufficient for me to know that I share this potential deception with my fellow beings, and that relying on it leads to remarkably good results.
On top, if the results aren´t good, we have great tools to analyse the way our senses work and to spot and explain the causes for the collective deception.
A downside to intuition is that your intuition might simply be wrong.
Yes.
How goes it with reason?
Reason does not only lead from sensual experiences to conclusions, it also is a tool to check the reliability of our senses.
It also is a good tool to check the reliability of our intuition. However, intuition seems to be inherently immune towards analysis and trouble-shooting in case of failure.

On another note, since intuition requires experiences and senses, it just adds another uncertainty factor on top of the one that comes with relying on our senses.

I guess what I am trying to say:
What I particularly appreciate about reason is its (self-)correcting powers, and its openness to put itself to scrutinity.

As for "intuition", I guess I still don´t even know what it is supposed to be. I´m tending towards the notion that at worst it is used as a euphemism for bias-confirmation, and at best is the results of reason having become second nature (so that the explicit rational steps can be short-cut). Whereas, if it is posited to be some independent obscure faculty of judgement making, I am not very enthusiastic about it since usually I find the results underwhelming.

It seems to me that reason allows for a permanent "I may be wrong - let´s find out if and why.", whereas "intuition" simply turns out to be right or wrong (in that respect it isn´t that different from throwing a coin), and that´s that (unless we start using reason to explore the mechanisms of "intuition" and the potential error-sources that it comes with).

That said, I am glad the way you worded your question implicitly asks for a reasoned response. "What´s your intuition concerning reason?" wouldn´t leave much space for more than, well, mere appeals to personal intuition, after all. ;)

If in doubt, reason is looking for common ground, whereas intuition insists on individual capability.
 
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I can already see one of the problems with reasoning: we don't really know how to define it relative to other methods of determining truth, and because of this it's easy to almost treat it like God and ascribe it omnipotent powers it doesn't really have.

The big question, as a shrink, I have is: how did it come about to idolize reason (as opposed to other methods) like this?
 
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quatona

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I can already see one of the problems with reasoning: we don't really know how to define it relative to other methods of determining truth,
Err, which other methods of determining truth?

and because of this it's easy to almost treat it like God and ascribe it omnipotent powers it doesn't really have.
Relax. Nobody did that.

The big question, as a shrink, I have is: how did it come about to idolize reason (as opposed to other methods) like this?
1. It isn´t idolized - it is valued for what it can do for you.
2. There aren´t any other methods I am aware of.
 
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Oh hush. Of course it's idolized. You think only religious people are the ones prone to idolozing things?

And if we understand truth as not just propositional but, er, Heideggerian, where truth is what is unveiled, then things change.
 
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quatona

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Oh hush. Of course it's idolized.
If you say so.
The thing is (and I have told you this before - actually, whenever it was the time of the month, and you started your rant against reason):
Your posts appear to be the attempt at using reason, and from my experience you expect the replies to be founded in reason (otherwise you criticize them for being not reasonable).
I am still wondering what other method you are proposing for an alternative.
Here´s my offer: You give me your idea of an epistemological method (and again: I´m not even aware of a competing method) that doesn´t employ reason, and we will base our further discussion on that method - looking where that gets us.
You think only religious people are the ones prone to idolozing things?
I wasn´t even thinking of religion, and the idea to contrast reason with religion was yours.

And if we understand truth as not just propositional but, er, Heideggerian, where truth is what is unveiled, then things change.
Ahhh, truth/Truth/TRUTH! ^_^
And if we understand truth as inaccessible, we can all go home.
Yet, in lack of an alternative, you and I will use reason to deal with everything that´s not a priori defined into the obscure, as we have always done - since it is the only method to our disposal. Well, ok, Voodoo may be worth a try.
 
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Do you think that was unreasonable?

You're posing a question about rationality to a dude whose time of month it is. :cool:

:D
Please address me as "World Champion" henceforth. ;)

Yeah! They scored one for all my drunk ancestors!
 
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quatona

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You're posing a question about rationality to a dude whose time of month it is. :cool:
Yes, I rely fully on your intuition which is sharpened at that time of the month. :p



Yeah! They scored one for all my drunk ancestors!
I´m wondering what will be the headline of the Bild-Zeitung ("WE ARE POPE!" - the day after Ratzinger was elected) tomorrow.
 
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Yes, I rely fully on your intuition which is sharpened at that time of the month. :p

we.png


I´m wondering what will be the headline of the Bild-Zeitung ("WE ARE POPE!" - the day after Ratzinger was elected) tomorrow.

:thumbsup:
 
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You know, I took a few classes in high school with Dempsey, the captain of the US team. So I know full well the ridiculous feeling of having all my local pals support him when I knew how douchey he was back then. Which isn't at all to say he's the same now, but I'm very skeptical of this considering you have a person like that when he was 18, then add money and attention. The door's still open, though.

So, all this said, I had huge motivation to root for my ancestral team rather than my native one. :)
 
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Paradoxum

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I can already see one of the problems with reasoning: we don't really know how to define it relative to other methods of determining truth, and because of this it's easy to almost treat it like God and ascribe it omnipotent powers it doesn't really have.

The big question, as a shrink, I have is: how did it come about to idolize reason (as opposed to other methods) like this?

I'm not sure I'd use the word idolize, but we value it because it's the best way to come to truth, and avoid error.
 
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