Atheists out of control!!!

[Wearecommandedtojudge]

I have no problem with religious symbolism, as long as I'm not paying with it through my taxes.

You would have hated Thomas Jefferson and his Congress then. They used public funds to support missionaries, build churches, and print Bibles.

Imagine a President doing that today.

I don't necessarily agree with what they did with public funds but I'm just pointing out that the American Communists Lawyers Union and the Freedom From Religion Foundation as well as many Judges, Politicians, and Lawyers are hypocrites who need to study the Constitution and American History.

 

[JGG]

You would have hated Thomas Jefferson and his Congress then. They used public funds to support missionaries, build churches, and print Bibles.

I wouldn't have hated him, but yes, I would have disagreed with him on that, as well as on slavery. I'm sure you disagree with him on his Bible.

I'm sure there are lots of things to disagree with Jefferson on. It's not as though those men were infallible.

 

[JGG]

Satan knows his army.

Atheists are bent on outlawing religious freedom in America and until then they'll terrorize the religious.

Wow. That's fantastic.

When you say religious freedom, you mean just for Christians? Or everybody is free to worship Christ?

 

[tremble]

​

And do you think I'm kidding?

Whether you are kidding or not, I don't know. I was, at least attempting to be, humorous with the chest poking thing, though serious with the rest. Please don't take my comments personally, as they are not intended to be. I hope we can have some good discussion even if we disagree on some issues.

 

[Cute Tink]

Add me to the list of atheists who just don't care. Just don't lump us all in together as if we were all the same, lest you want a bunch of people to drag out the Westboro folks and pretend we think you are all the same as them.

I don't care if you have your Nativity scenes all over every single government building in the country if you want. It's not going to affect me in the slightest. Just keep in mind that, legally, you cannot refuse other religions doing the same during their holidays.

The point at which I care is when you try to enforce your concepts of Biblical law on me. Until then, these displays are just fluff and have at them.

 

[tremble]

We want the system of Christian priviledge dismantled.

Hi JGG. I suggested that you could seek the same priveledge for your own views, too. Is that not enough?

The "priveledge" being expressed in this article is that Christians have the right to express their religious beliefs. I think that same right is available to you, too.

If you choose not to express that right, then what you are suggesting about taking away that right from Christians really does start to sound more like bitterness than a struggle for religious equality.

 

[JGG]

Hi JGG. I suggested that you could seek the same priveledge for your own views, too. Is that not enough?

No, the idea of privilege is that two groups cannot have it. One does, one does not. It means that one group stands above all others.

The "priveledge" being expressed in this article is that Christians have the right to express their religious beliefs. I think that same right is available to you, too.

Of course they do. I agree with the OP that it is ridiculous that a museum should not be able to display something historic. A Cross, a Crescent Moon, a Star of David, a Swastika, it doesn't matter. It's going into a museum, the government is not endorsing it.

What I am saying is that Christians should not get preferential treatment from a government that is supposed to represent me as much as them. And no, it doesn't.

If you choose not to express that right, then what you are suggesting about taking away that right from Christians really does start to sound more like bitterness than a struggle for religious equality.

What right do you not have?

 

[Wearecommandedtojudge]

I wouldn't have hated him, I would have disagreed with him on that, as well as on slavery.

I'm sure there are lots of things to disagree with Jefferson on.

Actually Jefferson didn't support slavery. He was a bit of a hypocrite at times though. Many of the Founding fathers were vehemently opposed to it, even some of those who owned slaves. Jefferson was an opponent of the slave trade, disliked the effects of slavery on society, and believed slavery harmful to both slave and master.

Many like Washington and Jefferson worked to abolish it but there was only so much they could do. In 1784, Jefferson proposed federal legislation banning slavery in the New Territories of the North and South, which failed to pass Congress by one vote. Washington privately expressed strong support for the gradual abolition of slavery. 1789 Congress passed and President Washington signed a law that reaffirmed the previous ban on slavery in the Northwest Territory.

If you lived in the 18th century and inherited slaves what would you have done? You may think "oh I would have just freed them" but it wouldn't have been that simple. Emancipation was illegal in some states and in others it was heavily regulated.

 

[tremble]

Add me to the list of atheists who just don't care. Just don't lump us all in together as if we were all the same, lest you want a bunch of people to drag out the Westboro folks and pretend we think you are all the same as them.

Good point. It really does bother me when people lump all christians together regardless of individual behaviour.

 

[Wearecommandedtojudge]

The point at which I care is when you try to enforce your concepts of Biblical law on me. Until then, these displays are just fluff and have at them.

We are already doing this. Incest and bestiality are illegal in some states. Murder is illegal as well. There are many laws we have that are based on Biblical laws and many of are historic buildings are embellished with Christian Symbolism. For instance The Supreme Court building has Moses and the Ten Commandments on it.

 

[JGG]

Actually Jefferson didn't support slavery. He was a bit of a hypocrite at times though. Many of the Founding fathers were vehemently opposed to it, even some of those who owned slaves. Jefferson was an opponent of the slave trade, disliked the effects of slavery on society, and believed slavery harmful to both slave and master.

Many like Washington and Jefferson worked to abolish it but there was only so much they could do. In 1784, Jefferson proposed federal legislation banning slavery in the New Territories of the North and South, which failed to pass Congress by one vote. Washington privately expressed strong support for the gradual abolition of slavery. 1789 Congress passed and President Washington signed a law that reaffirmed the previous ban on slavery in the Northwest Territory.

If you lived in the 18th century and inherited slaves what would you have done? You may think "oh I would have just freed them" but it wouldn't have been that simple. Emancipation was illegal in some states and in others it was heavily regulated.

I'm sure I would have living in a period that does not have the insight, or experience that we have now. But I have the gift of hindsight, and living in a period where we expect all races to be treated equal I can see why that can't stand now. And saying that just because it was considered acceptable then, doesn't mean I agree with it now.

Agreed?

 

[JGG]

Good point. It really does bother me when people lump all christians together regardless of individual behaviour.

It doesn't appear to bother you much when they do it to non-Christians though, huh?

 

[Wearecommandedtojudge]

BTW did you guys know that the phrase Separation of Church and State is found nowhere in the Constitution? It was coined by Thomas Jefferson. A Baptist Church sent him a letter because they were worried that they would be discriminated against because their beliefs were unpopular. He wrote back describing a "Wall of Separation of Church and State"...which btw was a one dimensional wall designed to keep the State out of the Churches business and not the other way around.

This would be the same Thomas Jefferson who used public funds to support missionaries to the Indians and to build Churches.

 

[JGG]

BTW did you guys know that the phrase Separation of Church and State is found nowhere in the Constitution? It was coined by Thomas Jefferson. A Baptist Church sent him a letter because they were worried that they would be discriminated against because their beliefs were unpopular. He wrote back describing a "Wall of Separation of Church and State"...which btw was a one dimensional wall designed to keep the State out of the Churches business and not the other way around.

This would be the same Thomas Jefferson who used public funds to support missionaries to the Indians and to build Churches.

Nor is the phrase "Christian Nation".

 

[Wearecommandedtojudge]

I'm sure I would have living in a period that does not have the insight, or experience that we have now. But I have the gift of hindsight, and living in a period where we expect all races to be treated equal I can see why that can't stand now. And saying that just because it was considered acceptable then, doesn't mean I agree with it now.

Agreed?

Legal or not I would have freed them even if I had to violate the law to do so. However this would have required much thought on how to do this thing. I couldn't set them free in America. They would have to be smuggled into a country where slavery was illegal. This would be complicated, take an enormous amount of money, and take time to pull off.

 

[JGG]

Legal or not I would have freed them even if I had to violate the law to do so. However this would have required much thought on how to do this thing. I couldn't set them free in America. They would have to be smuggled into a country where slavery was illegal. This would be complicated, take an enormous amount of money, and take time to pull off.

So...you don't agree?

 

[Wearecommandedtojudge]

Nor is the phrase "Christian Nation".

The Constitution calls Jesus Christ "Our Lord" and the Declaration of Independence says "to which the Laws of Nature and of (Nature's GOD) entitle them" "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by (their CREATOR) with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" "The Supreme Judge of the World" "Divine Providence"

Was America a Christian Nation? No. But Christianity is part of our heritage whereas atheism is not.

 

[JGG]

The Constitution calls Jesus Christ "Our Lord" and the Declaration of Independence says

"to which the Laws of Nature and of (Nature's GOD) entitle them"

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by (their CREATOR) with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness"

"The Supreme Judge of the World"

"Divine Providence"

Well, the "Year of Our Lord" was the common parlance of the times, so I'm not sure it counts (Supreme Court Justices tend to agree with that).

And the Declaration of Independence is merely a declaration, and is not actually a binding document in the American government.

 

[BryanW92]

So tell me more about me while you're reading my mind. What's my favourite colour for instance?

I'm not reading your mind. I'm reading your words of your internet personna--all of them and not just one post at a time--and comparing that to my own 30 years of experience as an atheist.

 

[JGG]

I'm not reading your mind. I'm reading your words of your internet personna--all of them and not just one post at a time--and comparing that to my own 30 years of experience as an atheist.

So, you're using yourself as the basis for all atheists. As an atheist, what was your favourite colour?

Is everyone here okay with me using BryanW92's words as the basis of all Christians' opinions? BryanW92 says x, therefore all Christians think x?