I don't have a personal definition of freewill. Freewill is the ability of rational agents to make choices free from constraints.
What's your definition?
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I'd be very curious to see your personal definition of free will that makes this statement true; just realize it has nothing to do with the way the same term is used within Christianity.
So there is no way for God to achive his goal once I am in Hell.
Should be a no-brainer then, whether it is better to keep people around or let them go to eternal damnation.
In case of our meteor: while you and your house are still around, I can work on you to accept me. If it all went boom... well, game over.
Oh, I love it when people claim to be prophets.
Those that would prefer to not learn to love God in the here and now, not to learn to learn to love what He loves and hate what He hates, not to exert themselves conforming to His will, are allowed to exist in that manner just like you said.
This is the Orthodox definition of hell.
Whoa... Time out! I seem to have lost the track.
May we start anew?
So if I am in Hell, I am lost for God. He cannot achive his goal of having me reconciled with him any more. Correct?
Dove,
I know you've heard this before, but I want to ask again. People claim to be "lead" or "influenced" or "told" by the "Holy Spirit" all the time, yet, no two Christians are ever "told" the same thing. If the Holy Spirit was actually working through people, don't you think it would be consistent?
I don't have a personal definition of freewill. Freewill is the ability of rational agents to make choices free from constraints.
What's your definition?
Odd definition of hell. I'm having a hard time seeing the "hell" part of it...
And yet you still avoid my question.Keep telling yourself that.
I won't ask you why your analogy doesn't fit, as you can't even see the problem with your assumption, let alone with assumptions in general.
This is simply untrue. The 'some' that you are referring to are simply unaware of God's 'giving his life' and are unaware even of God existing. The fact that you would make excuses for that groups eternal torture is both troubling and nonsensical.Zaac said:He paid the price. Yet some still don't want Him as God after He gave His life so that they could be saved.
He could very easily remedy the entire situation with the 'lake of fire' and extinguish its existence in favour of a universalist approach. The whole notion of allowing people who don't believe in him enter its domain for eternity is entirely unjustifiable.For the last 2000 yers, His forbearance has held out and is stil allowing people the chance to accept what He did on the Cross and not have to spend an eternity in the lake of fire.
This is masochism of the highest degree, and observe as it is being offered to you by a sadist. You put the fact that we exist uninterrupted by divine wrath as a reason to be eternally grateful and obedient to everything God is and stands for. Never mind the perpetual struggle that some people have just be nourished enough so they can garner up the strength for the next day's hunt for food. Never mind natural disaster victims caught up in the wrong place at the wrong time and pay with their livelihoods. Never mind those afflicted with debilitating conditions for their entire lives and never mind those who contract all manner of disease that may prematurely end their lives with a heavy amount of suffering along the way.He's preparing a place for us right now. There's a list of things that He has done for you that would stretch around the earth several times. People just don't tend to acknowledge that it's Him doing it
You didn't wake up alive and on this earth as opposed to in eternity this morning because you chose to. HE woke you up.
You're not clothed in your right mind because you choose to be, but because HE allows you to be.
Since when does 'not choosing to love him' necessitate eternal seperation and since when does the eternal seperation require eternal torture? Your entire justification for this is based upon a series of non-sequitors that you simply do not question.But you don't get to decide what God does. He has deemed that things are a certain way and they are that way. Out of love, he wants us to CHOOSE to love Him. But if we choose to not love Him, then we must be separated from Him.
This is simply untrue. The 'some' that you are referring to are simply unaware of God's 'giving his life' and are unaware even of God existing. The fact that you would make excuses for that groups eternal torture is both troubling and nonsensical.
Just as everyone is both aware and is consciously and deliberately rejecting Santa Claus' gift.So every single Non-Christian then is both aware and is consciously and deliberately rejecting God's gift?
b&wpac7 said:I really dislike the concept of Hell. I am really glad I don't have it in my belief system.
You cannot even pretend to know this. If Islam is true and Allah the real and accurate conception of God then all your faith would, like my non-faith meant absolutely nothing all along.If you don't believe in your religion and believe in God then you won't have the possibility of pain and torture after death.
What unique moral principles are exclusive to Christianity? Think please before you answer this.Yet if you trust in your religion, or any other, then you do have the possibility of going to hell and being tortured for eternity. And wouldn't you be a better person anyway if you at least followed christian principles?
I think you need to read at least some elementary critiques of the monstrosity that is hellfire. There is choosing against going to heaven in favour of hell. People simply don't believe that either exists and do not hold that the doctrine that props them up as absolute is true. The argument is accurately that God sending or allowing people to go to hell purely for not believing in him is immoral and indefensible.Going to hell is completely avoidable. It's up to you.
I find that I'm a better person not following any sort of religious principles, christian or otherwise.If you don't believe in your religion and believe in God then you won't have the possibility of pain and torture after death. Yet if you trust in your religion, or any other, then you do have the possibility of going to hell and being tortured for eternity. And wouldn't you be a better person anyway if you at least followed christian principles?
Going to hell is completely avoidable. It's up to you.
If you don't believe in your religion and believe in God then you won't have the possibility of pain and torture after death. Yet if you trust in your religion, or any other, then you do have the possibility of going to hell and being tortured for eternity. And wouldn't you be a better person anyway if you at least followed christian principles?
Going to hell is completely avoidable. It's up to you.
I find that I'm a better person not following any sort of religious principles, christian or otherwise.
Yep, they seem to forget that they were once the new kids on the block.Wow, wonderful. I'm Jewish. I think I'd be a better person if I stuck to Jewish principles, of which we have over 3000 years of practice refining. Pretty much all of yours came from us anyway.
I believe in the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob; the Holy One of Israel is who I follow.
Indeed I probably would. I have watched every debate I have found of Rabi Wolpe, and I have much respect for Jewish ethics and tradition.Well, for me it isn't just religious ideas. Jewish morality extends beyond religious aspects since it also pulls from cultural idea. I have several books on Jewish ethics that I enjoy and attempt to put those ideas into play. I'd wager a bet that you would agree with the vast majority of them. (Most of them have to do with not being a insensitive jerk to everybody)
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