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I must say this is a very interesting analogy.Consider the following analogy. A meteor is going to smash into your house just now. I'm going to destroy it before it can harm you. I acted, and you profit from it.
Now try to "reject" my gift. What do you think will happen to your house?
And you don't notice the point.... oh glorious irony!
Perhaps you will notice that I told you exactly that: that you don't believe I have been wronged and thus you don't ask for forgiveness. I told you that!
And guess what: this is precisely the (non)motivation Atheists have for asking God for forgiveness: they don't think God exists, and thus cannot be wronged.
I see you still don't get it. It doesn't matter what you accept or not. It doesn't matter what I feel about you. (Though I honestly wonder how you could get the notion that I feel good about you having to accept it when I explicitly told you that you don't have to accept it.)
It is not about you and what you do with forgiveness. It is about being forgiven.
And there are only two options: you are forgiven or you are not. And if you have to "do" something in order to be forgiven, it is not forgiveness at all. It is recompensation. A deal.
You mean the end of heaven?If I were God, here's what my plan would be...
Let everyone who wants to go into Heaven.
The end.
Oh I noticed the point that you thought you were trying to make. But as I've said repeatedly, some of yall have got this man-centric viewpoint that you think supersedes God just because you say so or don't believe.
God is God alone. Atheists not believing doesn't change that. If He says you have to come to Him and seek forgiveness, that's the way it is. You don't have to believe it. But the end result will be an eternity in the Lake of Fire.
I imagine there will be a lot of folks in that lake who won't believe they are actually there after a lifetime of rejecting the truth just because they were big and bad enough too.
I see you still don't get it. You're talking about how YOU forgive. I'm talking about how Jesus Christ forgives.
Biblical forgiveness has to be accepted. If you don't, you have chosen what's behind door #2---an eternity in the lake of fire.
A lot of Christians actually 'want' this eternal burning chamber to be true, if it is not true then they have nothing to hold over the head of another. I think God is much more wiser than to leave with us something that is that real and that damaging to people in many ways right now, to use to hold over another's head. This is not the work or desire of a loving Father.
I mean we already have the Bible that is so abused and misused anyway. Then you everybody who has a hell they like to put everybody else in who does not agree with their version of God/The Bible, etc.
It makes no sense because your analogy is not fitting. Forgiveness is not something that the receiver "uses"... it is something that the giver applies.
Consider the following analogy. A meteor is going to smash into your house just now. I'm going to destroy it before it can harm you. I acted, and you profit from it.
Now try to "reject" my gift. What do you think will happen to your house?
And yet the majority of those who believe this still think that in spite of all Jesus supposedly went through to acquire mans salvation His efforts will result in only a small fraction of all mankind getting saved. All that work He put into it, being tortured and killed, and yet at the end of the day the success lies with the sinner's ability to make the Correct Choice. If human ego isn't behind that I don't know what is. I swear I had to have been brainwashed to believe such a thing back when I did.What happened on the Cross should be offensive to you. An innocent man was tortured and killed so that you and I could be forgiven of our sins and receive eternal life if we accepted the gift Jesus offers.
Yes, you can seek forgiveness. And you can give forgiveness without it being sought.
Therein lies the rub.But since all we have are people who are unable to present me a convincing argument for their particular flavor of Jesus, let alone any supernatural entity, an atheist I will be.
Now that is a lie. There is indeed a penalty for breaking God's law. He tells us in His word that For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. 6:23
This sounds like Rob Bell type stuff.
Who cares what a lot of Christians want. This "eternal burning chamber " is true because GOD says it is.
It may not be YOUR IDEA of what a loving father would do. But God is Who HE says He is. He is not molded into something else just because we can't imaging Him doing something we don't think is right.
What do you think Jesus went to the Cross for?
Can I ask, do you feel that this is right?
I mean, regardless of any "whatever god does is right because he's god" nonsense. I want to know if YOU think it's right.
Hey self. Long time no talk. Hope all is going well with you.
But to answer your question. I'm a follower of Jesus Christ. My viewpoint is based upon the belief that God has given me His absolute truth and that truth trumps everything else. Absent the belief that He has given us His absolute truth, there is no reason to have faith in anything His word says.
Thus my viewpoint is based upon how God presents Himself. My notion of what is right is based upon what GOD says is right. And thus, yes, taking into account the FULL COUNSEL of the truth that He has given, it is ABSOLUTELY right.
As I said, I'm a follower of Jesus Christ. Asking me to form a response that is not based in Him is like asking a black person to talk about race relations in the United States but to ignore the fact that he is Black.
So my response will ALWAYS center around the One Whom I follow.
Which leaves two options; Either he didn't do enough, or he is incapable of saving everybody from a hell he created.And He did what needed to be done to keep them from going to hell. The problem is THEY don't want to accept what He did.
You mean the end of heaven?
I can envision a heaven with the armies of Obama and Osama at war to control heaven and ends up destroying it.
And yet the majority of those who believe this still think that in spite of all Jesus supposedly went through to acquire mans salvation His efforts will result in only a small fraction of all mankind getting saved. All that work He put into it, being tortured and killed, and yet at the end of the day the success lies with the sinner's ability to make the Correct Choice. If human ego isn't behind that I don't know what is. I swear I had to have been brainwashed to believe such a thing back when I did.
We are pattern seeking mammals and we usaully find what we're looking for.Those who follow Jesus should preach the word. And His word says 13 Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it. Matthew 7:13-14
So yes, as is indicated by your response and the feelings of many on this baord and throughout the world, The word of God is absolutely true. Only a small fraction of mankind will be saved.
All you have to do is look at this board and see the avatars for atheism and agnosticism, and the utter hatred that people have for the way of Christ. It is VERY evident that His word is true and that there are many on the road that leads to destruction.
So yes, as is indicated by your response and the feelings of many on this baord and throughout the world, The word of God is absolutely true. Only a small fraction of mankind will be saved.
To someone who comes into contact with Christianity as an exotic and rather strange religion, there are some concepts that are really hard to work with.
Like, god sets the rules, and expects 'payment' for breaking them. Punishment vastly dispropotionate to the "crime".
But to help out, he splits himself into two parts, and then tortures one of them to death as a way to pay himself. Then he comes back to life.
I cant grasp the sense of it.
so if i cant grasp the sense and dont even believe it, i am to be punished far far beyond what was 'payment' for everyone elses sins?
is that how it is supposed to work?
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