Atheists get what they want

[linssue55]

Oops.....Bump

 

[linssue55]

Third Angel?......how do you load Illustartions that are formed in PDF to the web.....specifically Here on this thread. I have tried printing, then scanning them, then-mailing them to myself, then putting them here, when I submit them they all turn into words, and slashes and the Illustrations are reduced to non-illustartions.?..Hope you can understand this, because I have no idea what I am doing. Help!

 

[ThirdAngel]

I whole heartedly agree with you linssue55 about Jesus paying it all for us, and that it is up to us to accept the sacrifice. Theologically, I have no differences with you as to the end results and the means of being saved. I was trying provoke some thought about was what the bible says about what happens after death (This is in no way an attempt to redefine the protestant understanding of salvation).

The bible speaks of death as a "sleep" 52 times. Many people have said that the sleep referred to is the sleep of the body. But the Hebrew word for soul (Nephesh) is the same used for man as it is for animals, and the bible says that our destination at death is the same as that of the animals. The bible also refers to humans as "dust." Such was the case with Adam at creation. When God breathed the breath (Ruwach; Heb. Spirit, breath, wind) of life into Adam, he "became" a living soul (Nephesh).

The Spirit (Ruwach), or breath is not the soul (Nephesh). It is the breath of life given by God which animates the body and makes man a living soul (Nephesh). At death;
...the dust will return to the earth as it was, And the spirit (Ruwach) will return to God who gave it. Eccl. 12:7.

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being. Gen. 2:7

If we look at this verse closely, we can see that it is an equation. Dust (body) + Breath of God (Ruwach) = Soul (Nephesh). Likewise;
Soul (Nephesh) - Breath of God (Ruwach) = Dust. This can be likened to a light bulb. The electricity enters the glass and the bulb becomes a light. The bulb is not the light, niether is the electricity the light. The light is a combination of the electricity and the bulb filament. Does the light continue to exist when the electricity is removed? No. But it can be recreated.

As I see it, both saved and unsaved remain in the grave, until they are resurrected (reanimated with the breath of life).

I noticed your flow chart linssue55 showed a state of torment for the unsaved after death prior to the 2nd death. It also mentions that this occurs at the center of the earth. I do not see any evidence for that in the bible. The parable of the rich man and Lazarus is the only scripture I can see which would lead us to believe in a state of torment immediately after death. But if we take the parable (which is an alegory) as doctrine, then we find Jesus contradicting plain statements made about the real Lazarus (Lazarus sleeps...Lazarus is dead). We would also have to conclude that the rich man in the parable had a physical body in hell immediately after death, which would be impossible if we understand the resurrections correctly. Taking a parable literally can be misleading. If we were to do so, we could also come to the conclusion that trees talk, as in the parable in the book of judges.

Your thoughts on these things? I don't want to get too deep with one post.

God bless

 

[linssue55]

I whole heartedly agree with you linssue55 about Jesus paying it all for us, and that it is up to us to accept the sacrifice. Theologically, I have no differences with you as to the end results and the means of being saved. I was trying provoke some thought about was what the bible says about what happens after death (This is in no way an attempt to redefine the protestant understanding of salvation).

The bible speaks of death as a "sleep" 52 times. Many people have said that the sleep referred to is the sleep of the body. But the Hebrew word for soul (Nephesh) is the same used for man as it is for animals, and the bible says that our destination at death is the same as that of the animals. The bible also refers to humans as "dust." Such was the case with Adam at creation. When God breathed the breath (Ruwach; Heb. Spirit, breath, wind) of life into Adam, he "became" a living soul (Nephesh).

The Spirit (Ruwach), or breath is not the soul (Nephesh). It is the breath of life given by God which animates the body and makes man a living soul (Nephesh). At death;
...the dust will return to the earth as it was, And the spirit (Ruwach) will return to God who gave it. Eccl. 12:7.

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being. Gen. 2:7

If we look at this verse closely, we can see that it is an equation. Dust (body) + Breath of God (Ruwach) = Soul (Nephesh). Likewise;
Soul (Nephesh) - Breath of God (Ruwach) = Dust. This can be likened to a light bulb. The electricity enters the glass and the bulb becomes a light. The bulb is not the light, niether is the electricity the light. The light is a combination of the electricity and the bulb filament. Does the light continue to exist when the electricity is removed? No. But it can be recreated.

As I see it, both saved and unsaved remain in the grave, until they are resurrected (reanimated with the breath of life).

I noticed your flow chart linssue55 showed a state of torment for the unsaved after death prior to the 2nd death. It also mentions that this occurs at the center of the earth. I do not see any evidence for that in the bible. The parable of the rich man and Lazarus is the only scripture I can see which would lead us to believe in a state of torment immediately after death. But if we take the parable (which is an alegory) as doctrine, then we find Jesus contradicting plain statements made about the real Lazarus (Lazarus sleeps...Lazarus is dead). We would also have to conclude that the rich man in the parable had a physical body in hell immediately after death, which would be impossible if we understand the resurrections correctly. Taking a parable literally can be misleading. If we were to do so, we could also come to the conclusion that trees talk, as in the parable in the book of judges.

Your thoughts on these things? I don't want to get too deep with one post.

God bless

Go to the post right above you. I have loads more but I need your help with this illustration problem. Help.

 

[GraceInHim]

linssue55 is correct.. love the image *Thumbs up*



lets not forget, an atheist is no lower then one who believes and keeps sinning.. *wink*

 

[ThirdAngel]

Go to the post right above you. I have loads more but I need your help with this illustration problem. Help.

I'm afraid I'm not much good at that sort of thing. I haven't experimented much with uploading images.

My post refering to your first flow chart image would be a good start. We could just take one point at a time.

 

[linssue55]

I whole heartedly agree with you linssue55 about Jesus paying it all for us, and that it is up to us to accept the sacrifice. Theologically, I have no differences with you as to the end results and the means of being saved. I was trying provoke some thought about was what the bible says about what happens after death (This is in no way an attempt to redefine the protestant understanding of salvation).

The bible speaks of death as a "sleep" 52 times. Many people have said that the sleep referred to is the sleep of the body. But the Hebrew word for soul (Nephesh) is the same used for man as it is for animals, and the bible says that our destination at death is the same as that of the animals. The bible also refers to humans as "dust." Such was the case with Adam at creation. When God breathed the breath (Ruwach; Heb. Spirit, breath, wind) of life into Adam, he "became" a living soul (Nephesh).

The Spirit (Ruwach), or breath is not the soul (Nephesh). It is the breath of life given by God which animates the body and makes man a living soul (Nephesh). At death;
...the dust will return to the earth as it was, And the spirit (Ruwach) will return to God who gave it. Eccl. 12:7.

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being. Gen. 2:7

If we look at this verse closely, we can see that it is an equation. Dust (body) + Breath of God (Ruwach) = Soul (Nephesh). Likewise;
Soul (Nephesh) - Breath of God (Ruwach) = Dust. This can be likened to a light bulb. The electricity enters the glass and the bulb becomes a light. The bulb is not the light, niether is the electricity the light. The light is a combination of the electricity and the bulb filament. Does the light continue to exist when the electricity is removed? No. But it can be recreated.

As I see it, both saved and unsaved remain in the grave, until they are resurrected (reanimated with the breath of life).

I noticed your flow chart linssue55 showed a state of torment for the unsaved after death prior to the 2nd death. It also mentions that this occurs at the center of the earth. I do not see any evidence for that in the bible. The parable of the rich man and Lazarus is the only scripture I can see which would lead us to believe in a state of torment immediately after death. But if we take the parable (which is an alegory) as doctrine, then we find Jesus contradicting plain statements made about the real Lazarus (Lazarus sleeps...Lazarus is dead). We would also have to conclude that the rich man in the parable had a physical body in hell immediately after death, which would be impossible if we understand the resurrections correctly. Taking a parable literally can be misleading. If we were to do so, we could also come to the conclusion that trees talk, as in the parable in the book of judges.

Your thoughts on these things? I don't want to get too deep with one post.

God bless

Ok, let's first list what you would like to discuss:

From post #19......
1.....Eternal punishment?
2....Heaven?......
3.....Resurrection?.....

Post #23.....
1....Become a living soul?
2......Returns to dust?.....
3.......Lazarus and the rich man?....

I can get with each one of these.......but as for the illustrations, I can e-mail loads of them to you, but I would need your e-mail address. I can't seem to get them to go on here, the illustrations? I wish I could, they are really neat.

 

[ThirdAngel]

Ok, let's first list what you would like to discuss:

From post #19......
1.....Eternal punishment?
2....Heaven?......
3.....Resurrection?.....

Post #23.....
1....Become a living soul?
2......Returns to dust?.....
3.......Lazarus and the rich man?....

I can get with each one of these.......but as for the illustrations, I can e-mail loads of them to you, but I would need your e-mail address. I can't seem to get them to go on here, the illustrations? I wish I could, they are really neat.

I'll get your PM's in my email. Or I'll PM you my adress. But just look at what I posted and comment on that. My observations about the nature of the soul, breath of God and the biblical references to death as a sleep. etc...

I'll be away from my computer for a bit. I'll be back later tonight or in the morning. Toodle-Doo for now.

 

[linssue55]

linssue55 is correct.. love the image *Thumbs up*



lets not forget, an atheist is no lower then one who believes and keeps sinning.. *wink*

Grace, you are absolutely right. The Lord love's them just as much as He loves us. Their sin of "Pride" will keep them from the Lord forever, and the sin of pride, is the worst sin, amongst God's 7 worst sins, which the Lord hates most(anthropopathism). Satan was the first, "Pride" was His downfall.

 

[linssue55]

My observations about the nature of the soul, breath of God and the biblical references to death as a sleep. etc...

From my teachings.......

THE SOUL


SOUL A living substance, simple, bodiless, and invisible by nature, activating the body to which it brings life, growth, sensation and reproduction. The mind is not distinct from the soul but serves as a window to the soul. The soul is free, endowed with will, and the power to act. Along with the body, the soul is created by God in His image. The soul of man will never die (Gen. 1:26; 2:7; Matt. 10:28).


The soul is the seat of life, that invisible entity that God imputes to us at the moment of birth, the life force that animates this body of corruption. It is the soul that identifies us as unique individuals, even more so that our appearance or personality. When this flesh waxes old and dies, it is the soul that departs this world and joins God in His kingdom. The soul has immortality. Even the unbeliever will continue to live forever, but one of the attributes that are essential for life with God, eternal life, is given only to the saved.

The soul has two spheres, or lobes, each of which has an exclusive function.

The left lobe, called the "nous" in the Greek, and sometimes the "mind", is the receptive lobe where all incoming stimuli are processed. Where information is concerned, after processing the information is "understood" and the individual either accepts it as true, or rejects it. Obviously, things that are not understood are not accepted.

The right lobe is called the "heart" in the Word. This practice was common among biblical scholars, to assign the name of a body organ to intangible concepts in soul function that they could not explain any other way. The "reins", or kidneys, mean "emotions", and sometimes the "bowels" are used for this same aspect of the human psyche.
The function of the right lobe is that of a depository where information accepted as true is stored. The "gate" to the right lobe, where all data is cued for final disposition, is the volition. If the volition approved it, it is admitted into the heart. This function has another, more common name; "Faith".
These two areas of the soul are but the primary chambers where information is received, processed and classified. There are also several other soul "compartments";

Memory Center
Memory is a common word in our volcabulary, and most of us understand how this characteristic functions.

Frame of Reference
The function of the soul where concepts and principles form recognizable configurations that we are able to correlate with issues and circumstances in life.

Norms and Standards
This is the compartment where the values we live by are stored.

Conscience
Another common term, this is the "sentry" of the soul that alerts us to right and wrong.

Volcabulary
Yet a third common term. The volcabulary stores the words we understand which comprise our ability to think. Without a suitable volcabulary we cannot think well.

Emotion
The emotions serve a unique purpose in the function of the soul, that of appreciation or enhancement of life's experiences. But the emotion also has a dark side. A problem arises when emotions rise up to control the soul because thinking and emoting are exclusive processes. When you are emoting your thought process is temporarily shut down.

To demonstrate how this works, think back to an occasion when you lost your temper. I mean REALLY wigged out! You probably said or did something you regretted later. Anger is a sin that incorporates emotion, and many foolish deeds are committed under the control of emotion.

Legitimate emotion also eclipses thought. For example;
This feature of emotion is very helpful in the area of relaxation. One leisurely activity is listening to music. We emote when we hear beautiful music, and this blocks our thoughts, which tends to ease the pressures of a hard day and provide a pleasant interlude.
We've all "puddled up" when we are involved in certain activities. The ladies invariably weep at a wedding, and most of us get tears in our eyes when we sing the Star Spangled Banner. I shed a few tears whenever I hear the Marine Corps Hymn. These are legitimate applications of emotion.

Old Sin Nature Trends
Every cell of the human body is contaminated with a sin nature, something we inherited from our original parents, and the reason why we are born alienated from God. This corruption will be left behind when we depart this body and we will "put on incorruption", or a body without a sin nature.
One of the things we inherit from our birth parents is an OSN trend, which span the spectrum from lasciviousness to aestheticism. Trends run the gamut of sins from promiscuity to rigid self-denial and piety, both of which are equally corrupt.

Areas of Strength and Weakness
The soul also has an area of strength, which gives us the ability to avoid certain sins, and an area of weakness which makes us vulnerable to other types of sins. The strength, in this case, is human righteousness, the highest form of good of which man is capable, but far short of Divine righteousness.

Edification of The Soul
God's plan for the lives of each saved human being begins at the moment we accept Christ as our Savior. At that point we are elect, possessing God's righteousness and eternal life, but completely ignorant of any details concerning the spectacular transformation that has occurred.
We might call this (salvation) Phase One of God's plan.

A "baby" believer is identical, in analogy, to a newborn infant. In the spiritual sense we are helpless, without even the most fundamental tools we need to function as a Christian. Just as a baby gradually grows, cuts teeth, learns to crawl, learns to talk, and so on....so the baby believer gradually acquires the skills and knowledge to grow spiritually and begin having an impact in this dark kingdom.
It is God's will that we begin the growth process. Millions of believers never get beyond babyhood because the become immersed in a dead-end religion or just blow the whole matter of a spiritual life off altogether.
Phase Two is the edification of the soul, a process which involves the assimilation of God's Word. As we are exposed to the teaching of a prepared pastor-teacher on a daily basis another, much more gradual, transformation takes place. Our norms and standards are renovated, and doctrinal principles replace the cosmic ones which we drag into the spiritual life with us. We develop a frame of reference for doctrinal applications to the circumstances of life. Our conscience is overhauled and begins alerting us to the intrusion of non-doctrinal influences or events.

Each day we hear good bible teaching and the volition approves the deposit of God's truth in our right lobe, the heart, our status as a believer slowly improves. Doctrine that is resident in the heart is called "epignosis", or "resident doctrine", and eventually erects what we can call an "edification complex". a fortress constructed by the power of God to sustain us in this life.
The ultimate objective of Phase Two is to take dumb creatures, extremely inferior in every way to angelic life, and transform us into skilled practitioners of the spiritual life, even though the only connection we have is The Holy Spirit and The Word of God. This is the substance of the victorious Christian life and Satan is defeated in our advance. God is glorified forever, and when His plan comes to a close those of us who "fight the good fight", or "run the good race", as Paul phrased it, will receive one or more crowns in eternity, rewards which represent unspeakable wonders and unimaginable wealth.

Which brings us to Phase Three, the believer in eternity. When our soul is liberated from this humble abode God has waiting for us a body of glory, pure and unsullied, without sin. Our soul is transported to His kingdom and we are given a temporary body while we await the resurrection, at which time we receive our new resurrection body. At that time the soul, body and human spirit are co mingled, joined together in one entity forever, and so shall we launch into the unending future.

 

[ThirdAngel]

Thanks linssue55. Let me take this a little at a time. I don't want to cover too much all at once, otherwise thoughts and communications tend to get scattered.

From my teachings.......

THE SOUL


SOUL A living substance, simple, bodiless, and invisible by nature, activating the body to which it brings life, growth, sensation and reproduction. The mind is not distinct from the soul but serves as a window to the soul. The soul is free, endowed with will, and the power to act. Along with the body, the soul is created by God in His image. The soul of man will never die (Gen. 1:26; 2:7; Matt. 10:28).

Look at Gen. 1:26, 2:7 and Matt. 10:28. Do these verses really say that the soul of man will never die? Matt. 10:28 says that God can destroy the soul. Ezekiel 18:4 says; "The soul that sins shall die." 1 Tim. 6:15-16 says that Jesus the King of kings ALONE has immortality.

Your definitions are true to our typical understanding, but are not biblical definitions. If you use a concordance or a lexicon, you will see that the Hebrew word for Soul, is "Nephesh." This same word is used to describe animals as in Gen. 1:20; 21 Then God said; "Let the waters abound with living creatures (nephesh')." So God created great sea creatures (nephesh).
...and man became a living soul (nephesh). Gen. 2:7

Nowhere in scripture can you find an example of a soul being spoken of as being immortal.

linssue55, you have been very good about sticking to the bible, but you are bringing in all sorts of extra biblical definitions and presuppositions.

The only human beings who have not tasted death are Moses, Elijah, Enoch and possibly others who John saw in vision who he called the 24 elders in Revelation. I would speculate that they may have been resurrected when Crist was crucified. Matt. 27:52 says that; the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised.

As I have pointed out, the bible refers to death as a sleep 52 times. That is not just something to be shrugged off in favor of definitions derived from ancient Greek or Roman culture.

Anyhow, enough for now. Be back tomorrow.

God bless.

 

[linssue55]

Thanks linssue55. Let me take this a little at a time. I don't want to cover too much all at once, otherwise thoughts and communications tend to get scattered.

[/font]
Look at Gen. 1:26, 2:7 and Matt. 10:28. Do these verses really say that the soul of man will never die? Matt. 10:28 says that God can destroy the soul. Ezekiel 18:4 says; "The soul that sins shall die." 1 Tim. 6:15-16 says that Jesus the King of kings ALONE has immortality. Whoa, now you take one at a time. I sent you a salvation package, 40 things. We inherit eternal life a the point of salvation....many, many verses......."The soul that sins shall die." .....this is spiritual death, carnal, out of fellowship.

Your definitions are true to our typical understanding, but are not biblical definitions. If you use a concordance or a lexicon, you will see that the Hebrew word for Soul, is "Nephesh." Do they use Isosgogics? with this interpretation?, is it Exegesis from the original language, NOT from the Hebrew of today?

This same word is used to describe animals as in Gen. 1:20; 21 Then God said; "Let the waters abound with living creatures (nephesh')." So God created great sea creatures (nephesh)....and man became a living soul (nephesh). Gen. 2:7......This is the problem when Isogogics are not used, so much can be misinterpreted. Animals do not have souls as we do, only physical life, nor do they have the knowledge or self-conscienceness to make the decision to believe in the Lord, for the Lord only gives people (believers) eternal life, He only died on the cross for people. The breath of life in the Original Hebrew using Isosgoics and Exegesis is Nashemah. He did not breath the breath of life into animals. This is apples and oranges.


Nowhere in scripture can you find an example of a soul being spoken of as being immortal. Refer to salvation package, and other's I have sent.


linssue55, you have been very good about sticking to the bible, but you are bringing in all sorts of extra biblical definitions and presuppositions. Not at all....I use nothing but biblical.....for I would never put in personal oppinion to the word of God, that would be apostate, and evil, I absolutely will not go there. Remember, we cannot acknowledge what we do not understand. Like I said the bible must be interpreted in the time it was written. I will send you one more thing to aid you in understanding of what I am saying. (ICE)


The only human beings who have not tasted death are Moses, Elijah, Enoch and possibly others who John saw in vision who he called the 24 elders in Revelation. I would speculate that they may have been resurrected when Crist was crucified. Ok, now do you agree that the resurrection body cannot die? If you do (I hope you do), then why aren't these men walking the earth right now?The only person that has ever been resurrected is the Lord, for the resurrection body is not subject to death, once it is given by the Lord, it can never die. There will be 2 exceptions, during the tribulation, Moses, and Elijah (now in heaven with the Lord) will NOT recieve their resurrection bodies at the time of the rapture, instead they will be "Resussitated" to come back during the tribulation, to witness to the world. They will be killed, by the anti-christ. Now, if they (Moses) was now resurrected, how could he die during the tribulation?, how could he die again?. He couldn't. The point is after their death's during the tribulation, they will be on display before the world for 3 day's, and the end of the 3 day's, the Lord Resurrects (never to die again) them, all eye's will see. Just as the Lord's body cannot ever die again, because of the resurrection, WE will recieve the same body. Like Lazarus, he was "resussitated" (in the original), but then later died again, for the last time. If he had recieved his resurrection body then, he would be walking around amongst us right now, a 2,000 year old man. He is now in heaven with the Lord, awaiting his resurrection body as the dead in christ, at the time of the rapture.


Matt. 27:52 says that; the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised.
As I have pointed out, the bible refers to death as a sleep 52 times. That is not just something to be shrugged off in favor of definitions derived from ancient Greek or Roman culture. Yes it does, but NONE of them refer to us, we believers have eternal life, at physical death, our soul, and spirit to go be with the Lord, not lying dead in coffins awaiting the resurrection. I sent info on this.

Anyhow, enough for now. Be back tomorrow.

God bless.



[/size][/font]

I'll get back with you on Matt 27:52.

 

[Ave Maria]

I hate to tell you this but they won't blink out of existence when they go to Hell. No, they'll burn in Hell for eternity for their sins.

 

[*Starlight*]

Some forms of Christian theology make God seem like an evil, heartless monster who tortures people for eternity just for not believing in him...

 

[linssue55]

deuteronomy 34:5
So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the LORD.

deuteronomy 34:6
And he buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, over against Bethpeor: but no man knoweth of his sepulchre unto this day.


Even the angels (fallen) don't know where Moses is buried, for if satan knew, he would gather his bones, thinking that that would keep the Lord from resucitatiing him during the tribulation. For satan know's by the word, that Moses (also Elijah) will bring many to the Lord. The Lord buried Moses where satan couldn't see. There is no where in the bible that Moses has been resurrected already?

 

[GraceInHim]

Some forms of Christian theology make God seem like an evil, heartless monster who tortures people for eternity just for not believing in him...

He is not at all.. and Jesus loves to find sinners.. for I was a bad one, no better then an athiest.. he will guide more sheep ..

 

[linssue55]

Third Angel....Exegesis. Mat 27: 51-56

[font=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]{1st and 2nd Miracle while Jesus Hung on the cross}[/font]

[font=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]51~~Just then the temple veil was split {schizo} in two from the ultimate source of the top to bottom {as a miraculous sign to the Jews - God the Father tore it starting at the top}. The earth shook and the rocks were split {schizo - same verb used with the veil} apart {an earthquake was a miraculous sign to the Gentiles - Jesus is the Rock of the World and this is analogous to His death on the cross}.[/font]
[font=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]{Note: Schizo is the Greek word for tearing or splitting. The 'temple veil' was an enormously thick curtain that veiled the Holy of Holies. It was HUGE and impossible to tear by hand! It was 60 feet high 30 FEET wide. }[/font]

[font=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]{3rd Miracle while Jesus Hung on the cross}[/font]
[font=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]27:52~~Tombs also were opened, and many of the bodies {not all} of {Old Testament} saints who had slept/'died in the past with the result that their bodies remained dead' {around Jerusalem} . . . were raised.[/font]

[font=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]{Note: The transfer of the Old Testament saints from 'Paradise' to the third heaven is alluded to in Ephesian 4:8 and to some extent in II Corinthians 12:1-4. The process may have been happening at this very time but this verse is NOT referring to that transfer. This is the miraculous opening of graves and these saints being resuscitated to witness for the Lord for the next 40 days.}[/font]

[font=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]27:53~~(They came out of the tombs and went into the holy city and appeared to many people after His resurrection {modifies 'appeared' - they appeared after the resurrection}.)[/font]

[font=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]27:54~~ Now when the centurion and those {soldiers} with him[/font]
[font=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]who were constantly watching something that belonged to them {tereo} . . . Jesus . . . {they} saw the earthquake and what took place, they were extremely terrified and said, "Truly {note it well/ point of doctrine} this One was . . . always was and never was a time He was not . . . the Son of God!"[/font]

[font=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]{Note: Tereo is a special Greek word for watching. Tereo means to 'watch something that belongs to you'. Apparently these men had made a decision to accept Christ as their own.}[/font]

[font=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]27:55~~Many women who had followed Jesus from Galilee . . . constantly ministering/ supporting Him were also there . . . watching from a distance.[/font]

[font=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]{Note: Most of the disciples ran away in fear. Maybe only the Apostle John was the only one of them actually at the cross. But MANY of the women understood doctrine and were there!}[/font]

[font=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]27:56~~Among them, who kept on always being there were . . . Mary Magdalene . . . Mary the mother of James and Joseph Jr . . . and the mother of the sons of Zebedee.[/font]

[font=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]{Note: Mary Magdalene was a former prostitute and formerly demon possessed. At this point, she was born again and possibly the BEST student of the Lord's doctrine. She was here at the cross and she was the first to whom Jesus revealed Himself in His resurrected body. Per RBT, the other Mary is also referred to as Mary the wife of [/font]
[font=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]Claifus (sp) - only information given.}[/font]

 

[*Starlight*]

He is not at all.. and Jesus loves to find sinners.. for I was a bad one, no better then an athiest.. he will guide more sheep ..

Well, no one is perfect, so we all sin... Christians and non-Christians alike.

 

[Cause]

Caliban:

The Bible makes it quite clear that the suffering and torment of the wicked will be as eternal as the life of the blessed. Jesus Himself said in Matthew 25:46:

And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into eternal life.

Some find the thought of eternal torment of the wicked harsh, but it is really just. You see, when Adam rebelled against God, in effect he was saying that he wanted life without God. He wanted to decide truth for himself, independent of God. That is what sin is - being self-centred rather than God-centred. Thinking, It's all about me. In a similar way, when we reject Christ and His offer of salvation and cling to our sins we are also in effect saying that we want to live independent of God, without Him. Or put in a different way, when we reject Christ we are saying to Him: "Go away Jesus! Don't come here in my life with that torch of yours telling me how to live! Just leave me alone." And, on Judgment Day, God will sadly grant their wish and depart them from Himself. Obviously, the natural alternative of choosing life independent or apart from the eternal life giving source is eternal death (since the soul is eternal). Also, the Bible tells us that all have sinned and deserve eternal condemnation. But God in His grace, has given us a path out of condemnation and into salvation and become a child of God through faith in His Son who died on the cross and rose again for our sins.

Those who reject Christ on Judgment Day will literally get what they have asked for and what they deserve. That is why our mission to save people is very important, because eternity is a long time and I wouldn't want even Hitler to endure that kind of punishment, even though it is what we all ask for and deserve through our unbelief in Christ.

Many people, sadly even Christians, do not understand this and can't reconcile the punishment with a holy, just, and loving God. God has already given them a way out, and if they reject it, as I explained, they are asking for punishment. They literally have themselves to blame as they send themselves to hell (unfortunately).

 

[linssue55]

Caliban:

The Bible makes it quite clear that the suffering and torment of the wicked will be as eternal as the life of the blessed. Jesus Himself said in Matthew 25:46:

And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into eternal life.

Some find the thought of eternal torment of the wicked harsh, but it is really just. You see, when Adam rebelled against God, in effect he was saying that he wanted life without God. He wanted to decide truth for himself, independent of God. That is what sin is - being self-centred rather than God-centred. Thinking, It's all about me. In a similar way, when we reject Christ and His offer of salvation and cling to our sins we are also in effect saying that we want to live independent of God, without Him. Or put in a different way, when we reject Christ we are saying to Him: "Go away Jesus! Don't come here in my life with that torch of yours telling me how to live! Just leave me alone." And, on Judgment Day, God will sadly grant their wish and depart them from Himself. Obviously, the natural alternative of choosing life independent or apart from the eternal life giving source is eternal death (since the soul is eternal). Also, the Bible tells us that all have sinned and deserve eternal condemnation. But God in His grace, has given us a path out of condemnation and into salvation and become a child of God through faith in His Son who died on the cross and rose again for our sins.

Those who reject Christ on Judgment Day will literally get what they have asked for and what they deserve. That is why our mission to save people is very important, because eternity is a long time and I wouldn't want even Hitler to endure that kind of punishment, even though it is what we all ask for and deserve through our unbelief in Christ.

Many people, sadly even Christians, do not understand this and can't reconcile the punishment with a holy, just, and loving God. God has already given them a way out, and if they reject it, as I explained, they are asking for punishment. They literally have themselves to blame as they send themselves to hell (unfortunately).

So sad....BUT SO TRUE. No one should ever blame the Lord!