Atheists do not deny a God exists.

[KCDAD]

OH gosh your right! This country does allow us all to live in peace. As long as we keep our atheist traps shut.

Mississippi State Constitution. Article 14 ("General Provisions"), Section 265
No person who denies the existence of a Supreme Being shall hold any office in this state.

North Carolina's State Constitution, Article 6 Section 8
"Disqualifications of office. The following persons shall be disqualified for office: First, any person who shall deny the being of Almighty God."

Tennessee's State Constitution, Article 9 Section 2
"No person who denies the being of God, or a future state of rewards and punishments, shall hold any office in the civil department of this state."

Texas' State Constitution, Article 1 Section 4
"No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office, or public trust, in this State; nor shall any one be excluded from holding office on account of his religious sentiments, provided he acknowledge the existence of a Supreme Being."

(In case you're confused that last one is from the home-state of our blessed President W)

Change the subject???

Do you not understand that you have the right to protest this BECAUSE you live in a society whose basis is found in theistic morality?

Why do you think they (the people) passed those laws and statutes?

Do you want someone who says.. there is no absolute right or wrong, that justice and mercy are purely subjective, that we base our policy, ethics, morality and laws on whatever I feel is politically correct at the moment, that it all depends on what the definition of "is" is... do you want that person in a place of responsibility?
Or, instead maybe who says, there is an ultimate authority to whom I am responsible, that I will be held accountable for my actions by a Supreme Being, that humanity, freedom and equality are sacred because of an ultimate immutable law of the universe... not because you or I or anyone thinks or says so... today.

 

[The Bellman]

Do you want someone who says.. there is no absolute right or wrong, that justice and mercy are purely subjective, that we base our policy, ethics, morality and laws on whatever I feel is politically correct at the moment, that it all depends on what the definition of "is" is... do you want that person in a place of responsibility?
Or, instead maybe who says, there is an ultimate authority to whom I am responsible, that I will be held accountable for my actions by a Supreme Being, that humanity, freedom and equality are sacred because of an ultimate immutable law of the universe... not because you or I or anyone thinks or says so... today.

Neither, thanks. I want someone who says that they are anxious to promote the wellbeing of society and its members and therefore draws up laws to that end.

 

[KCDAD]

Neither, thanks. I want someone who says that they are anxious to promote the wellbeing of society and its members and therefore draws up laws to that end.

Well being according to what? Aryan supremacy? The good of the Commissar? Who determines what is good for society? On what basis do we decide to make policy about labor, health, education and law and order?

 

[The Bellman]

Well being according to what? Aryan supremacy? The good of the Commissar? Who determines what is good for society? On what basis do we decide to make policy about labor, health, education and law and order?

Well being according to the members of society, of course. Society determines what is good for it. Do you seriously need to ask these questions?

 

[KCDAD]

Well being according to the members of society, of course. Society determines what is good for it. Do you seriously need to ask these questions?

In which society have you seen the people decide anything?

 

[The Bellman]

In which society have you seen the people decide anything?

Are you just trolling, or what?

 

[tanzanos]

Actually KCDAD is right.

Unless you are a WASP you will never go to heaven. If English was good enough for Jesus it is good enough for KCDAD. You have the right to choose in America so long as you BOW to the Almighty.
Also being a Republican is a plus for entering the pearly gates!

 

[MarcusHill]

I go away for the evening and a circular semantic debate mutates into trotting out the hoary old "atheists have no morals, we need our sky daddy to tell us how to behave" rubbish!

 

[Alchemist]

Atheists do not deny a God exists, they state categorically that a God does not exist,
they know in their bones a God does not exist, the very concept is ridiculous to them.

People are entitled to believe whatever they want,
but they should not expect to get respect for their beliefs just because they believe them,
a belief in something ridiculous is still a belief in something ridiculous,
and to an Atheists a belief in a God is ridiculous.

I believe it is not their fault, but creationists live in a dream world which is manufactured be
someone else and forced into their heads when they are young.

No one, but no one (who can think for themselves) comes to creationism on their own,
every creationist is brought up in creationism,
it is not something a person decides for themselves to believe in.

This is the reason why creationists are permanently on the defensive,
even though it is unbelievable they continue to defend it because they
have no other choice, if they don't, their whole upbringing is a sham
and everything they have been told is a lie.

Think about it, what would you do?

Sorry, anffyddwyr, but most atheists don't state categorically that a God does not exist, know in their bones a God does not exist, consider the very concept is ridiculous to them . That is strong atheism, which is pretty much completely illogical as you can't prove that God doesn't exist, as I've explained before on several posts.

And I'm sorry, but strong atheism is not absense of belief. It is believing that God does not exist. Yes, you can logically say that see no evidence for God's existance, hence refuse judgement. But in saying that you categorically deny God's existance, you are making a claim, which like every other claim should be supported by evidence if you want to be taken seriously. And I'm sorry, but on this very board I have seen many-an-atheist who knew "in their bones" that actually the world was created ex nihilo last Tuesday with the appearance of old age, and that their memories before that point were implanted by God-they-don't-believe-exists for a laugh.

I don't deny, that is a possibility, whoever ludicrous. But knowing it in your bones doesn't mean much. And don't even get me started on Santa...

Peace,
Nick

 

[Alchemist]

Actually KCDAD is right.

Unless you are a WASP you will never go to heaven. If English was good enough for Jesus it is good enough for KCDAD. You have the right to choose in America so long as you BOW to the Almighty.
Also being a Republican is a plus for entering the pearly gates!

Oh, not Jesus talking English again!

Peace,
Nick

 

[KCDAD]

Actually KCDAD is right.

Unless you are a WASP you will never go to heaven. If English was good enough for Jesus it is good enough for KCDAD. You have the right to choose in America so long as you BOW to the Almighty.
Also being a Republican is a plus for entering the pearly gates!

I have never said anything like that... in fact I don't believe in "going to heaven"... so take your not very funny attempt at sarcasm and move along...
I have never implied anything about the language of scripture or Jesus other than it wasn't Greek or English or Latin...
I have never implied being Republican (or anything else) was of any benefit to your soul... or made any difference in American politics
I don't think I have ever used the term WASP on these forums... in over 6000 posts... until just now... danggit!

 

[KCDAD]

Sorry, anffyddwyr, but most atheists don't state categorically that a God does not exist, know in their bones a God does not exist, consider the very concept is ridiculous to them . That is strong atheism, which is pretty much completely illogical as you can't prove that God doesn't exist, as I've explained before on several posts.

And I'm sorry, but strong atheism is not absense of belief. It is believing that God does not exist. Yes, you can logically say that see no evidence for God's existance, hence refuse judgement. But in saying that you categorically deny God's existance, you are making a claim, which like every other claim should be supported by evidence if you want to be taken seriously. And I'm sorry, but on this very board I have seen many-an-atheist who knew "in their bones" that actually the world was created ex nihilo last Tuesday with the appearance of old age, and that their memories before that point were implanted by God-they-don't-believe-exists for a laugh.

I don't deny, that is a possibility, whoever ludicrous. But knowing it in your bones doesn't mean much. And don't even get me started on Santa...

Peace,
Nick

Anffyddwyr... you are obviously NOT a true atheist, so your thoughts are irrelevant and distracting. Your definition is wrong. Who do you think you are making up your definition for your beliefs or lack thereof? Only the true disbeliever is allowed to define our nonreligion.

 

[thaumaturgy]

Change the subject???

I didn't change the subject. You told us to be happy that our current society "allows" us to be free to follow whatever religion or lackthereof that we want. I was merely correcting you (yet again).

Do you not understand that you have the right to protest this BECAUSE you live in a society whose basis is found in theistic morality?

I think you meant in spite of.

Theistic morality is a whole 'nother bag of rocks (and it's even more philosophical and nuanced so it is unlikely that you would be able to follow that discussion either).

For every excess of an "atheistic morality" you can name I can name about 100 excesses of a "theistic morality". I can start with the Bible and work through history if you like.

Why do you think they (the people) passed those laws and statutes?

Because they were ignorant people who thought that God was going to be reading their constitution and if he didn't see his name in there he'd punish them?

Yeah, that works.

Do you want someone who says.. there is no absolute right or wrong, that justice and mercy are purely subjective, that we base our policy, ethics, morality and laws on whatever I feel is politically correct at the moment, that it all depends on what the definition of "is" is... do you want that person in a place of responsibility?

No, I want someone who drools over the return of Jesus and can't wait until the 12th imam returns and knows none of this can happen until the nuclear bombs start raining down on innocent people. THAT's the person I want in charge.

Puhleeze. Start another thread on "theistic morality". It's a good discussion. I am too prone to follow side-tracks in threads, so I'll force myself not to pursue this one. I've helped derail too many threads because theists can't stick to one topic, especially when they are losing a debate so abysmally so they go running off in all directions like bird shot from a 12-gauge.

Or, instead maybe who says, there is an ultimate authority to whom I am responsible, that I will be held

I know this will go right over your head, but that ain't morality...that's FEAR. If you do good only because you FEAR being held accountable then you are hardly doing good for any "holy" or supernatural reason.

It's a "workable" morality, but it isn't supernatural or somehow "holy". It's just fear. There were people who did what they were told in Stalinist Russia too.

ultimate immutable law of the universe... not because you or I or anyone thinks or says so... today.

Now you're getting back on track: you have an "ultimate immutable law of the universe". Is that your God? Good. Workable. What if you run up against a person who believes their "ultimate immutable law of the universe" wants to see YOU dead because you put soldiers in their holy land? (I think you can remember how that worked out for us a couple years back).

 

[AV1611VET]

Oh, hang on, did you not notice that to worship means "to pay reverent honour and homage?"

Ya --- I noticed that.

Have you noticed that when you take God off the throne, then anything you put in His place becomes your idol?

Whether it's the humanists' trinity (me, myself, and I), alcohol (spirits), or your job, it becomes your idol.

But, to take it a step further, whenever you use that idol as evidence that god doesn't exist (as atheists do with nature), then it becomes more than just an idol; it becomes your god.

That would mean, of course, that atheists aren't worshippers of anything much, except in a very loose, metaphorical sense.

The Bible says otherwise.

 

[AV1611VET]

If we accept this as not evil on god's behalf then Hitler was not a bad person either.

Using Hitler as evidence that God doesn't exist is like using Mother Teresa as evidence that He does exist.

The Holocaust no more disproves God than Purim proves Him.

 

[AV1611VET]

I do not believe in any deity that I have been told about because there is no evidence that such a deity exists.

WOW --- they could have used you when they were complaining against S.E.T.I. wanting to use our tax dollars!

 

[Loudmouth]

So you don't deny the concept of God, just the explanations of God?

That's correct. Like others here, I see no way to logically or sensibly try to uphold a universal negative. There is no way to support the idea that there is no god. But just like our discussion earlier about the teapot orbiting Mars, I see no reason to believe in something without positive evidence.

Does that make me an atheist?

 

[FishFace]

The opposite of empiricism is not faith. Speculation, skepticism, and things like these... that is the opposite of empiricism. They are essential to the acquisition of knowledge.

Faith has nothing to do with knowledge.

Neither speculation nor skepticism acquire knowledge. It is arguable that one can have a priori knowledge, in which case you have a sort of synthesis of rationalism and empiricism (because pure rationalism is nonsense) but many would disagree.

 

[thaumaturgy]

Have you noticed that when you take God off the throne, then anything you put in His place becomes your idol?

Patently absurd. Why do YOU feel the need to have a throne? I don't. Are you going to unilaterally decree that anything I like (be it coffee or a good YouTube video) is what I put on my "throne"??? Then you have effectively gutted any real meaning to the words.

But you are in good company here. KC has been trying to wipe all meaning from words so he can get people to argue about the meanings of words he doesn't like.

Whether it's the humanists' trinity (me, myself, and I), alcohol (spirits), or your job, it becomes your idol.

Pure unadulterated bs. Sorry. But you are just trying to paint others with your own obessions.

If that is how you define "god" then your definition of God exactly meaningless. So do you worship Yahweh simply because he's more "fun" for you than liquor? Wow, Yahweh must be so happy to make the cut!

Sorry, but just because you need a throne and something to "worship" doesn't mean everyone does.

It is like the person on antidepressants who thinks everyone around him or her needs to be on antidepressants.

When you have only a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.

But, to take it a step further, whenever you use that idol as evidence that god doesn't exist (as atheists do with nature)

Please stop this. Atheists don't worship nature. We respect that nature is an indifferent force that simply exists. We realize we will not be able to simply float away because of gravity, no matter how much we might want to. Does that count as WORSHIP??? Hardly. Just because I accept that electromagnetism exists and if I stick my finger in a light socket I will kill or injure myself does NOT mean I "worship" the light socket.

Again, either you have a very weird and semi-meaningless definition of "worship" or you simply want to accuse everyone around you of needing to worship something so you just conveniently expand the definition.

If my avoiding empty light sockets is "worship" to you then I shudder to think what your God sees when he sees you worshipping him!

 

[FishFace]

Sorry... Theos does mean God... but Theism does not mean Godism. Theism means a type of Godism, just like Deism does and Pantheism and polytheism does...They are not all the same.

You've said this already, and I've looked in the dictionary, and in the encyclopedia, and they do not agree with you. I would rather go with my own experience and the word of the dictionary, which both coincide, than with your singular opinion.

Unless you have something new to add to the debate, this is the end of it. According to the dictionary, theism means, in general belief in God, especially but not necessarily in a personal one.