Atheists, can Christianity be debunked fully?

[ToddNotTodd]

Well. I pray all the time to my God and I know my God exists.

If you "know" your god exists then you aren't gambling. How do you show that your god exists and other gods don't to people like me?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

If you "know" your god exists then you aren't gambling. How do you show that your god exists and other gods don't to people like me?

We don't .
We can only testify to what we have both seen and heard.

 

[ToBeLoved]

If you "know" your god exists then you aren't gambling. How do you show that your god exists and other gods don't to people like me?

I know better than trying to explain a Spiritual God to people not open to it

I don’t have to nor will I try. It’s not something I try to prove to aetheists.

If they were interested, they would try praying themselves and you prove it to yourself.

It’s like telling a teenage boy not to touch. But in a spiritual sense.

 

[Tinker Grey]

That was 2015

Please post your link.

ETA: I should note that the Pew article I posted was from April 2017, suggesting that those numbers are the most recent Pew has.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Please post your link.

ETA: I should note that the Pew article I posted was from April 2017, suggesting that those numbers are the most recent Pew has.

What I saw I think was a graph as of 2015 in the article.

But maybe I was incorrect.

Still. The numbers are very high.

 

[ToddNotTodd]

We don't .
We can only testify to what we have both seen and heard.

Then it's nonsensical for a theist to bring up atheists "gambling" on an afterlife, as you're not providing any evidence that one god exists and others don't. As it stands for non-theists, the roulette wheel has countless slots corresponding to the various gods that could exist, and countless corresponding slots that each of those gods don't exist. There isn't a bet that more probably than another.

 

[ToddNotTodd]

I know better than trying to explain a Spiritual God to people not open to it

I don’t have to nor will I try. It’s not something I try to prove to aetheists.

If they were interested, they would try praying themselves and you prove it to yourself.

It’s like telling a teenage boy not to touch. But in a spiritual sense.

Some of the most devout Christians become atheists. Pastors, priests, nuns, Biblical scholars...

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Then it's nonsensical for a theist to bring up atheists "gambling" on an afterlife, as you're not providing any evidence that one god exists and others don't. As it stands for non-theists, the roulette wheel has countless slots corresponding to the various gods that could exist, and countless corresponding slots that each of those gods don't exist. There isn't a bet that more probably than another.

You didn't ask about evidence, remember !?

 

[ToddNotTodd]

You didn't ask about evidence, remember !?

Of course I did:

"How do you show that your god exists and other gods don't to people like me?"

Evidence is the means by which you can show something to exist...

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Some of the most devout Christians become atheists. Pastors, priests, nuns, Biblical scholars...

So ? Maybe they were all along ?
What about Ekklesia ? (not the same thing as 'Christian' today, nor most times it is used in the last 2000 years)

 

[HitchSlap]

I know better than trying to explain a Spiritual God to people not open to it

I don’t have to nor will I try. It’s not something I try to prove to aetheists.

If they were interested, they would try praying themselves and you prove it to yourself.

It’s like telling a teenage boy not to touch. But in a spiritual sense.

You previously stated you're unwilling to gamble on your eternity, yet when called to show your hand, you seem to have misplaced your cards?

 

[ToddNotTodd]

So ? Maybe they were all along ?

Almost assuredly those people that deconverted prayed, making this statement pointless:

"If they were interested, they would try praying themselves and you prove it to yourself."

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Almost assuredly those people that deconverted prayed, making this statement pointless:

"If they were interested, they would try praying themselves and you prove it to yourself."

WHY do YOU think they would pray at all ?

WHY do YOU think those you mentioned were EVER converted to start with ?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Of course I did:

"How do you show that your god exists and other gods don't to people like me?"

Evidence is the means by which you can show something to exist...

Now you added something.
Never-the-less, what does the Son of God say when someone like people seeks "evidence" ?
Or YHVH , the CREATOR of everything in the UNIVERSE ?

"ALL CREATION is evidence of the CREATOR"..... those who reject the evidence are without any foundation
and without any defense on judgment day.

As I posted earlier - All we can do is tell of what we have seen and heard.

Those who do not accept God's evidence , or our evidence, (testimony),

are not likely to ever be saved, and not even someone returning from the dead can convince them to be saved.

 

[ToddNotTodd]

WHY do YOU think those you mentioned were EVER converted to start with ?

Going down the "deconverted means never converted to begin with" road is dangerous for the theist, because it means they can't show that they're actual Christians, to either the outside world or to themselves. You sure you want to do that?

 

[HitchSlap]

Well Jesus is historically documented to have existed for one.

Maybe, maybe not. But for the sake of this discussion, I'll agree.

As well as other things in the Bible.

As well as things that aren't.

Plus all the places existed and are historically accurate on old maps, ect.

Some places yes, but not all. I read a John le Carre novel once, and London was mentioned, does this make the novel true?

The Dead Sea scrolls and carbon dating has proved our scripture has existed for thousands and thousands of years.

Sure. Do they say what you've been lead to believe? Could they have said something else?

John M. Allegro - Wikipedia

Are there other cultures with just as old or older documents?

Don’t forget, the Old Testament began with Judaism which is older than Christianity so we have good history and a lot has been explored and proven.

Don't forget that Judaism =/= Christianity. Christianity co-opted Judaism so as to gain some street cred and not be extinguished altogether.

Ask a Jew is they accept Christ as the Messiah.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Going down the "deconverted means never converted to begin with" road is dangerous for the theist, because it means they can't show that they're actual Christians, to either the outside world or to themselves. You sure you want to do that?

Think about your own question.
IF you cannot tell the difference between those who are truly converted believers, born again by the Will of God from above, not of men, called and chosen and set apart by God for Himself, immersed in Jesus' Name,
and those who are not truly converted,
then
why on earth would you ever want to be converted yourself ! ?

 

[ToddNotTodd]

Now you added something.

Something I shouldn't have had to, since it's painfully obvious.

Never-the-less, what does the Son of God say when someone like people seeks "evidence" ?
Or YHVH , the CREATOR of everything in the UNIVERSE ?

"ALL CREATION is evidence of the CREATOR"..... those who reject the evidence are without any foundation
and without any defense on judgment day.

As I posted earlier - All we can do is tell of what we have seen and heard.

Those who do not accept God's evidence , or our evidence, (testimony),

are not likely to ever be saved, and not even someone returning from the dead can convince them to be saved.

Creation, nor testimony, is not evidence of a deity.

We, so far, have natural explanations for natural things we see. And for the things we don't have explanations for, "I don't know" is an honest answer while "a god had to have done it" is not.

Testimony is especially a problem for theists, since you can find testimony for the god of any religion.

Do you have anything that I would consider actual evidence?

 

[ToBeLoved]

Then it's nonsensical for a theist to bring up atheists "gambling" on an afterlife, as you're not providing any evidence that one god exists and others don't. As it stands for non-theists, the roulette wheel has countless slots corresponding to the various gods that could exist, and countless corresponding slots that each of those gods don't exist. There isn't a bet that more probably than another.

No it’s not.

It’s up to you to be responsible for yourself.

I’m past thinking we owe you guys an explanation.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Something I shouldn't have had to, since it's painfully obvious.



Creation, nor testimony, is not evidence of a deity.

We, so far, have natural explanations for natural things we see. And for the things we don't have explanations for, "I don't know" is an honest answer while "a god had to have done it" is not.

Testimony is especially a problem for theists, since you can find testimony for the god of any religion.

Do you have anything that I would consider actual evidence?

What’s your evidence that a God doesn’t exist?

 

[ToddNotTodd]

Think about your own question.
IF you cannot tell the difference between those who are truly converted believers, born again by the Will of God from above, not of men, called and chosen and set apart by God for Himself, immersed in Jesus' Name,
and those who are not truly converted,
then
why on earth would you ever want to be converted yourself ! ?

The point isn't related to me, the point is related to the theist.

Do you believe that "deconverted means never converted to begin with"?