Atheists/Agnostics & Death

[Deidre32]

I've lost a friend recently who was an atheist. As he would put it, a 'dogmatic' atheist.' I consider myself to have an atheistic view, but also agnostic. I was once a Christian, a very pious one. I keep wondering about an after life, since his passing. If there is one, and if there is...what might a religious person tell an atheist in such a case?

Just thinking out loud, I guess.

 

[Albion]

"Tell an atheist?" I have no idea what you expect us to say. We think there's an afterlife; atheists generally don't. Someday we'll all find out who's right about that.

 

[Mountain_Girl406]

I sometimes think it's possible to decouple faith in God and belief in the afterlife. I'm still seeking in both areas, but I'm not sure all faiths, even Abrahamic ones, imply an afterlife, and on the other hand it's possible to imagine an afterlife that exists independent of a specific God.

 

[Deidre32]

"Tell an atheist?" I have no idea what you expect us to say. We think there's an afterlife; atheists generally don't. Someday we'll all find out who's right about that.

I don't 'expect' anything, just asking a question. The one thing that is objectively true, I personally think...is that no one knows, hence my agnostic leanings.

I sometimes think it's possible to decouple faith in God and belief in the afterlife. I'm still seeking in both areas, but I'm not sure all faiths, even Abrahamic ones, imply an afterlife, and on the other hand it's possible to imagine an afterlife that exists independent of a specific God.

This is a very interesting answer, I think it's worth thinking over. In truth, I never believed in an after life, even as a Christian. I felt pious about my belief in Jesus, etc...but, an after life...I believed that one might exist, but that it wasn't necessarily as how the Bible illustrates.

I used to discuss all of this with my friend who died, and so now that he's no here any longer, it's weird. I just wonder where he is. If anywhere at all. I never thought I'd be thinking about this, really.

 

[Winken]

@Deidre32 .... I'm wondering how you became a Christian (a pious one), then left.

 

[Deidre32]

@Deidre32 .... I'm wondering how you became a Christian (a pious one), then left.

I didn't question my beliefs for a very long time. I didn't question the Bible stories, or anything taught to me over the years. Once I started questioning, I felt that much of what I believed, lacked logic. That's the simple answer, but it was more complex than that, and it really turned into a long and winding road of questioning, doubting, and eventually abandoning the faith.

 

[SkyWriting]

I've lost a friend recently who was an atheist. As he would put it, a 'dogmatic' atheist.' I consider myself to have an atheistic view, but also agnostic. I was once a Christian, a very pious one. I keep wondering about an after life, since his passing. If there is one, and if there is...what might a religious person tell an atheist in such a case?

I would say follow your heart and not your head. People can "reason" just about anything,
but what they "feel" about something is more often correct.

 

[GrowingSmaller]

I dont think atheists need telling anything. I did struggle with the afterlife concept but I believe in God so if He could create once over, why not again?

 

[DogmaHunter]

I would say follow your heart and not your head. People can "reason" just about anything,
but what they "feel" about something is more often correct.

Hmmm.

That sounds like you consider appeals to emotion to not be a fallacy.

 

[DaisyDay]

Someday we'll all find out who's right about that.

Or not.

 

[Celticflower]

You can only tell someone what you yourself believe. But you can't expect them to believe it. And you shouldn't get bent out of shape when they don't.

 

[Wryetui]

Someday we'll all find out who's right about that.

You mean us.

 

[Albion]

You can only tell someone what you yourself believe. But you can't expect them to believe it. And you shouldn't get bent out of shape when they don't.

Pretty much my view, too. If there is common ground (as between Christians of different denominations) there might be some reason to haggle, but as between Theists and Atheists, that's not the case.

 

[Eudaimonist]

I would say follow your heart and not your head. People can "reason" just about anything,
but what they "feel" about something is more often correct.

Reason is the only thing that offers self-correction. If one feels about something incorrectly and ignores one's head, there's no chance of self-correction.

I say follow your head, and use it carefully. Do listen to feelings, but go with your head.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Colter]

I've lost a friend recently who was an atheist. As he would put it, a 'dogmatic' atheist.' I consider myself to have an atheistic view, but also agnostic. I was once a Christian, a very pious one. I keep wondering about an after life, since his passing. If there is one, and if there is...what might a religious person tell an atheist in such a case?

Just thinking out loud, I guess.

It's difficult to tell Atheist anything of a spiritual nature, they generally have to discover the truth through experience and painful ego deflation or not. Not every acorn becomes a tree, the gift of choice in the will of the children of God allows us to chose God or forsake him. Some people choose the doctrines of death.

 

[com7fy8]

I was once a Christian, a very pious one.

Christianity is not pious or practicing, but personal. You might continue your exploration of the Bible . . . anywhere . . . and notice how the Bible gives personal attention to people who would not get such attention, possibly, in human history. God cares about each person, even the evil ones.

And we can see that the Bible shows that God is personally involved with people, communicating personally especially with His children. But God is not conceited; Jesus even spoke personally with Satan > Luke 4:1-13.

But do we listen? >

"swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath" (in James 1:19)

There are people who are listening to their anger and arguing and complaining and unforgiveness and their own "logic"; so they miss the gentle and quiet and humble communication of Jesus.

So, yes, I am offering how we need to believe something because we know God Himself has shown it to us, and maybe even proven it in our lives . . . including proving how He does things with those who obey how He takes care of us.

"God resists the proud,
. But gives grace to the humble."
. . . . . . . . . . (in James 4:6, also in 1 Peter 4:6)

"Therefore", every one of us has God personally communicating with us - - - deeper than words >

by means of His grace which is the effect of His love in our character (1 Corinthians 6:17, Romans 5:5, 1 John 4:17) and His personal guiding (Isaiah 58:11, Proverbs 3:5-6) in our lives . . .

or in our ego stuff we are having a run-in with the personal communication of His resistance!!

Each of us has proof of this, in one way or the other, right now. But ones are in stubborn denial; "and we all need to become more humble and thankful."

I keep wondering about an after life, since his passing. If there is one, and if there is...what might a religious person tell an atheist in such a case?

It depends on who you are, what you would tell an atheist.

I might get to know the atheist and see what he or she is thinking and feeling. And then "tailor" what I say, to how I might help the person. If the atheist is becoming open to the possibility of there being God, I would offer that God does exist and He made us so He can have children to spend eternity with Him . . . since He is not going to die and just vanish from existence.

Or, if the atheist is in stubborn and even violent denial, I might say nothing but be patient and pray for him or her. But sometimes someone in nasty and stubborn denial asks questions, anyway; so I might just answer the person's questions, as well as I could, praying for God to inspire me. I might say something simple like, I experience there is God and I find that He has me believing in Jesus and the gospel and living after we leave this life; and His love lasts longer than this life. And I am satisfied with Him; He is better than only a belief, and He has done me more good, than I or other humans have done for me.

But I have needed much correction (Hebrews 12:4-11) so I can benefit from Him > He corrects me, Himself; He is this personal with me; so it is not about trying to do some self-production of my own "movie" of my own life!! And He has me sharing with other children of God, and our Father has us helping each other as family; so lone-wolf logic and effort and games of word chess arguing with self-invented logic are not going to help < this is "why" people's logic has not brought them to God: because their way does not work.

The one thing that is objectively true, I personally think...is that no one knows, hence my agnostic leanings.

How can a human know what his or her physical senses can not detect?? But we understand that God knows and He has sent His own Son who has been in His "bosom". He, Jesus, would know God and then be quite qualified to come here in the flesh and tell us, plus show us how He is in love.

"No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him." (John 1:18)

This is very personal, how Jesus is in our Father's own "bosom", where Jesus can know truly how our Father is, and be our faithful and trustworthy witness.

 

[Cute Tink]

what might a religious person tell an atheist in such a case?

If the religious person knows that the person is an atheist, then the best bet might just be "I'm sorry for your loss. If you need anything, please let me know."

 

[Eudaimonist]

If the religious person knows that the person is an atheist, then the best bet might just be "I'm sorry for your loss. If you need anything, please let me know."

I'll keep you in my thoughts will also be fine.

Don't use the word prayer, because that will come across as snide.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[com7fy8]

Don't use the word prayer, because that will come across as snide.

I think each atheist can speak for oneself, about if the word "prayer" would be "snide". And saying "prayer" can be included in our example, so an atheist can understand that we do not depend on and trust in ourselves, but we look to God for all that is truly good.

So, if someone does take this to be "snide", well I consider that not all atheists would have the same attitude.

I have seen how certain people try to make it seem like all members of a certain group all see things the same way and would all react the same way to some item. But I am discovering that not all atheists or agnostics or "Christians" are to be painted with one brush It might save paint, but . . . . under an oppressive government, ones can try to make everyone the same, in a group, so they can control the votes and other resources of that group . . . without needing to take the time and make an effort to get to know each person's special interests, and needs, and faults, and ways.

So, I would need to get to know each person so I can have some feel for what it is good to do to love that person.

 

[SkyWriting]

Reason is the only thing that offers self-correction. If one feels about something incorrectly and ignores one's head, there's no chance of self-correction. I say follow your head, and use it carefully. Do listen to feelings, but go with your head.

People do not correct themselves, they deceive themselves.
That's the entire premise for the scientific method, to have
critics re-create your work and judge your conclusions harshly.

That is the same premise for democracy, for others to vote
your "truth" into the trash can if they don't agree with your
reasoning.