Atheists/Agnostics & Death

[Sketcher]

I've lost a friend recently who was an atheist. As he would put it, a 'dogmatic' atheist.' I consider myself to have an atheistic view, but also agnostic. I was once a Christian, a very pious one. I keep wondering about an after life, since his passing. If there is one, and if there is...what might a religious person tell an atheist in such a case?

I'd tell you that I'm sorry for your loss, and since you are wondering about an afterlife, I'd tell you that I believe in one as a Christian. I'd leave the ball in your court as to whether you want to explore that further.

 

[Eudaimonist]

I think each atheist can speak for oneself, about if the word "prayer" would be "snide".

Yes, they can, but use the word prayer at your own risk. If you don't care about coming across as snide, go right ahead.

And saying "prayer" can be included in our example, so an atheist can understand that we do not depend on and trust in ourselves, but we look to God for all that is truly good.

You should never use the death of an atheist's loved one as an excuse to proselytize. That is vulture-like behavior. It is the worst.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Eudaimonist]

People do not correct themselves, they deceive themselves.

Some might, but it is reason that offers a way out.

That's the entire premise for the scientific method, to have
critics re-create your work and judge your conclusions harshly.

Science does not say that people necessarily deceive themselves. If that's what everyone does, science would not function at all. Scientists would be deceiving themselves, and there would be no scientific progress. Honesty is a virtue in science.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Cute Tink]

So, if someone does take this to be "snide", well I consider that not all atheists would have the same attitude.

While this is true, in the specific moment of approaching someone who is grieving, is that an appropriate time, in your opinion, to take that chance?

 

[GrimKingGrim]

I dont think atheists need telling anything. I did struggle with the afterlife concept but I believe in God so if He could create once over, why not again?

Just leads to the question of a life after the afterlife

 

[sahjimira]

I didn't question my beliefs for a very long time. I didn't question the Bible stories, or anything taught to me over the years. Once I started questioning, I felt that much of what I believed, lacked logic. That's the simple answer, but it was more complex than that, and it really turned into a long and winding road of questioning, doubting, and eventually abandoning the faith.

 

[sahjimira]

 

[Placeholder]

"Tell an atheist?" I have no idea what you expect us to say. We think there's an afterlife; atheists generally don't. Someday we'll all find out who's right about that.

Well, not necessarily. If the atheist view is correct, no one will find out anything, as you cannot find out things in a state of non-being.

I'm a theist. Just playing Devil's advocate

 

[Winken]

I didn't question my beliefs for a very long time. I didn't question the Bible stories, or anything taught to me over the years. Once I started questioning, I felt that much of what I believed, lacked logic. That's the simple answer, but it was more complex than that, and it really turned into a long and winding road of questioning, doubting, and eventually abandoning the faith.

The Good News is that "the faith" never abandons an authentic Believer. If you were authentic in your confession / profession of Jesus as Savior in the first place (Romans 10:8-13) you remain a Christian (saved) forever. If that is the case, then you need to set out on resuming your personal relationship with Him. It doesn't require "works." It doesn't require "effort." It doesn't require rules, regulations, and procedures. Just open your Bible to 1 John 1:9.

Be blessed in Him.

 

[Winken]

You should never use the death of an atheist's loved one as an excuse to proselytize. That is vulture-like behavior. It is the worst.

Mark

That's your opinion.

 

[Eudaimonist]

That's your opinion.

Yes, it is my opinion based on my life experience as an atheist.

But why would you care about that? Apparently, when understanding how to speak with atheists, the feedback of atheists is unimportant to you.

Go right ahead and use your own ideas on how to speak with atheists. You clearly know them better than actual atheists. No one can tell you that you are mistaken.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[HondaMan]

It sound like you're an atheist, sad, and hoping for afterlife.

Does thinking that you'll die and become nothing make you happy?

Doesn't believing in afterlife and being with God sound better?



Let me ask you this, do you believe in George Washington, Alexander the Great? If you do, why do you believe that any of them existed? There is no physical proof except some writings.

Why is believing in ancient warriors acceptable, but not in Jesus?

 

[Winken]

Yes, it is my opinion based on my life experience as an atheist.

But why would you care about that? Apparently, when understanding how to speak with atheists, the feedback of atheists is unimportant to you.


eudaimonia,

Mark

On the contrary. I'm glad I read your post. As a born-again Believer in Jesus as Savior, it gives me an opportunity to witness. What I found unnecessary is this: "That is vulture-like behavior. It is the worst." A Christian is called to witness to life eternal rather than death.

 

[Cute Tink]

Not answering on behalf of the OP, but offering my own perspective.

Does thinking that you'll die and become nothing make you happy?

No. Once I'm dead, I'll just be dead. Neither happy, nor sad.

Doesn't believing in afterlife and being with God sound better?

Irrelevant. Either it exists or not. Wishful thinking won't make it happen.

Let me ask you this, do you believe in George Washington, Alexander the Great? If you do, why do you believe that any of them existed? There is no physical proof except some writings.

Why is believing in ancient warriors acceptable, but not in Jesus?

None of those writings are promising an afterlife, etc.

 

[RLBeers]

Heaven; the word, the description and the name conjure up a myriad of imaginings. Even though Jesus said nothing the mind of man can imagine will prepare anyone who arrives there for what they will experience. This musing is my own version of imagining heaven. I think it may prompt some thoughts.

First, let’s travel back before time existed. God, the Son and the Holy Spirit were all there was. The Spirit of God set creation into motion, and even though the bible isn’t clear on this, the angels were part of the first creation. Lucifer’s rebellion, which brought evil into God’s creation, not Eve’s original sin, placed a third of the angels into opposition with God. Creation was stained.

Consider the word, “creation”; it covers far more territory than this planet. The book of Revelation tells us of the creation of a new heaven (meaning the cosmos) and a new earth as one of the closing acts of the battle against sin. The size of the cosmos is beyond imagining and it is entirely possible that the actual size of creation is infinite, meaning without end in the literal sense.

When I was growing up the picture of heaven painted for me was the classic cliché of clouds, harps and cherubs. Guaranteed that is not what awaits us. Consider this; every positive attribute found in humanity is amplified in God to a power beyond number. One of those is the desire to share. How many parents find joy in showing their child new and wonderful things? How many children create a drawing, a craft or discover something fascinating and rush to show it off? It is the same with God. There are several passages where God is depicted as having a conversation where He is “showing off”. God is proud of his creation and rightly so and He is very interested in showing it to us.

Have you ever wanted to watch what goes on at the event horizon of a black hole up close and personal? Make sure you get to heaven. Have you ever wanted to explore galaxies? Jesus’ invitation to accept his sacrifice is your ticket. Heaven is eternal and the Bible indicates that the process of life multiplying will continue. An infinite cosmos as part of heaven, untainted by sin seems to be the most reasonable way of accommodating that expansion.

Speaking of life, it is not just possible but highly probable that every form of life, every species and subspecies that has been on this earth will be there. Playing fetch with a velociraptor could very easily be something to consider. Everything a good parent does with their child is something God wants to do with us.

However, being granted access to this new creation is not guaranteed, not if you haven’t made the arrangements. Jesus said more than once that the acceptance in his all-encompassing sacrifice is required. “Washed in his blood” is not just a countrified Southern Baptist song.

The following if a reprint, but it is an important one:

“All religions are the same. They believe in the same God as the Christians. A truly loving God would accept everybody.” Very few people want to hear that every one of the previous statements are not just wrong but horribly and quite probably eternally misleading. John 14:6 has this statement, “Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”

By extension Jesus used the term, I Am several times and the translation from the Aramaic gives us the same phrase God used when telling Moses His name. A number of apologists attempt to de-deify Jesus by pointing out that he never came out and said, “I am God and you will worship me,” but this is pure equivocation since the earthly ministry of the man Jesus is entirely different than the position He was placed into upon ascension. In the bible there is are several places where God speaks of himself in both the singular and the plural. This link has many of the biblical references, http://www.evidencetobelieve.net/triune_god_in_the_scriptures.htm

http://www.letusreason.org/trin16.htm, is a web page where a good many of the scriptures show Jesus indicating that he is indeed God made flesh.

So where does that put us? It all goes back to what I have said many times before, the pathway into eternal life is open and free to all, it is the acceptance of the sacrifice of Jesus. A full understanding of that as far as the scriptures are concerned comes later. You do not need to be able to enter into a doctoral dissertation in order to be given salvation; you just have to accept that Jesus died on the cross for you, personally.

An awful lot of what went on behind the scenes of the crucifixion is really quite interesting. The Devil was actually conned into taking Jesus’ spirit, a third of the triune God, into hell…illegally. Because Jesus had met all the requirements of the law, the only man to ever do so, he was qualified for Heaven. By taking an innocent into Hell the Devil broke his contract with God thus allowing the creation of a new covenant, the acceptance of which became an act of free will on the behalf of the reborn believer.

This con would only have worked if Jesus had been God made flesh, not a mere prophet or a form of an angel, but a sinless being, a part of the creator of the universe. Believing in that, or more correctly, being willing to develop a belief in that is the only way to get to Heaven. You cannot get there just by accepting that Jesus was a prophet the same as Mohammed. You cannot get there by racking up an impressive list of charitable deeds or meditating on the universe and “being a good person”. Those who rely on Islam, Hinduism, Taoism, Wicca or any other form of religious activity will be eternally disappointed if they die without accepting Jesus as their savior.

Please understand this; no Christian has the right to declare that any one individual is going to Hell. God very clearly states that He is the final judge and He has every right to make the final decision. He made us, we did not make him. However, we do have the responsibility to point out the very clear fact that the door to Heaven opens to only one form of ID, that of the believer in Jesus’ eternal sacrifice.

 

[paulm50]

"Tell an atheist?" I have no idea what you expect us to say. We think there's an afterlife; atheists generally don't. Someday we'll all find out who's right about that.

We may never find out. The brain remains active after the heart stops, so long as the brains not damaged. Maybe the brain produces light, or even sight. And then the lights go off. And there's nothing, not that the dead know there's nothing. LOL

http://www.lifetrainings.com/Does-consciousness-continue-after-death.html

No reports of pearly gates or fire.

 

[Eudaimonist]

What I found unnecessary is this: "That is vulture-like behavior. It is the worst."

It's taking advantage of someone's misery to promote your worldview. That is vulture-like behavior, and will likely be seen that way. I'm not going to sugar-coat this for you. It's manipulative behavior.

That's something you should think seriously about, at least in terms of how other people are going to feel as a result and to see you as a representative of your religion. You'll generate much more goodwill taking my advice.

A Christian is called to witness to life eternal rather than death.

Perhaps so, but I would think that this is not something that you are expected to do without forethought or compassion. You aren't a robot. You may exercise judgment about the likely results and act in a prudent way.

If you believe that you are called to act in a way that completely ignores cause and effect, go right ahead. I personally won't mind if you drive people away from Christianity. This is no blow to my conscience, because I even tried to give you good advice.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Deidre32]

I've been busy with work today, sorry for not replying sooner. I will later, and I really thank you all for your insights.

 

[Celticflower]

Yes, they can, but use the word prayer at your own risk. If you don't care about coming across as snide, go right ahead.

When it comes to dealing with people of other or no religions, I tend to err on the side of caution - I say I will keep them in my thoughts and offer to help if they need anything. I may pray for them without saying anything to them about it, but I would rather not drive them away with an inappropriate word at a vulnerable time.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I've lost a friend recently who was an atheist. As he would put it, a 'dogmatic' atheist.' I consider myself to have an atheistic view, but also agnostic. I was once a Christian, a very pious one. I keep wondering about an after life, since his passing. If there is one, and if there is...what might a religious person tell an atheist in such a case?

Just thinking out loud, I guess.

Well, Deidre...I guess a 'religious' person would first empathize with your pain and doubt and say that she knows that God will do justice with the overall circumstances you've described regarding your atheist friend.

2PhiloVoid