Atheist Universe: Not Impossible

[marksman007]

560: I think we're all familiar with the story. I think the question is what credible evidence do you have that demonstrates that the story is true? Simply saying (like you did before) that because bad things happen, Satan necessarily exists doesn't work, because any religion can say "Because bad things happen, [insert bad entity here] must exist."

Thankyou for asking. I will try and explain it to you.

We all have a belief system which informs our world view. In the context of this discussion, the atheist has a world view that says logic and science gives them all the answers.

For the Christian, his world view is informed by the Bible and belief in God as the creator of the universe and Jesus the saviour of mankind. We all make our decisions based on our world view. As we get to know God and study his word, we find out about what is happening in the world both seen and unseen.

From my experience, for the atheist, the only book in the bible is Leviticus as they constantly quote from it but rarely from any other.

As a Christian, I have read the whole bible more than once, I have a theological degree where I spent two years studying the bible, and I teach groups biblical exegesis. Because this is my worldview, it is obvious that is where my knowledge is coming from which means that I don't filter the Bible through logic and science, I filter logic and science through the Bible.

Whilst I realise that atheists have a problem with this, mainly due to the fact that they are trying to understand the infinite with the finite, I don't. In fact, because of faith, it is the most logical thing in the world. As I have no reason to believe what the bible says is not true, and having personally experienced some of the things that it says, I do not need to constantly doubt what I read.

A bit like father and son. A son trusts his father until he has reason not to. If and when that event arises, he keeps trusting his father.

Because of free will, God does not make you believe in him. That is your choice as is your choice to believe he does not exist. Only time will tell if your right or I am.That does not negate the fact that either you are right or I am as we can't both be right.

That being the case, no matter how much atheists rubbish the fact, it is a fact that if I have got it wrong, I have wasted 70 years. If the atheist has got it wrong he has wasted eternity. Any atheist who does not accede to this fact is to say the least...illogical.

 

[MoonLancer]

That being the case, no matter how much atheists rubbish the fact, it is a fact that if I have got it wrong, I have wasted 70 years. If the atheist has got it wrong he has wasted eternity. Any atheist who does not accede to this fact is to say the least...illogical.

Pascal's Wager... really? So what will do if you selected the wrong god? your creating a false dichotomy (which is a fallacy) to assume that ether God exists, or no God exists when simply a god may exist that is not your God. You could waste 70 years AND eternity. I have NEVER seen a good argument as to why God is somehow special compared to all the other mythical unfalsifiable gods.

I deem you illogical for using pascals wager a fallacy of false dichotomy.

 

[allhart]

Science is a critical aspect of human existence, but it cannot address the spiritual nature of man. In this respect, science is a dead end around which the atheist refuses to reason. Reason itself informs man of its own limitation and, in doing so, directs him to the discovery of a force greater than himself...... Reason cannot, by itself, explain why there is reason.

 

[Ringo84]

It's about time we moved on from endlessly fighting the Scopes Monkey Trial.
Ringo

 

[allhart]

1) Science cannot, by itself, explain why there is reason.
2) Reason and science can explain the existence of matter, but atheists cannot explain why there is matter.
3) Atheists can explain the existence of the universe, but they can't explain why there is a universe.
4) Atheists can explain the existence of nature and the laws of physics, but they cannot explain why there is nature and the law of physics.
5) Atheists can explain the existence of life, but they cannot explain why there is life.
6) Atheists can explain the existence of consciousness, but they cannot explain why there is consciousness.

 

[roflcopter101]

1) Science cannot, by itself, explain why there is reason.
2) Reason and science can explain the existence of matter, but atheists cannot explain why there is matter.
3) Atheists can explain the existence of the universe, but they can't explain why there is a universe.
4) Atheists can explain the existence of nature and the laws of physics, but they cannot explain why there is nature and the law of physics.
5) Atheists can explain the existence of life, but they cannot explain why there is life.
6) Atheists can explain the existence of consciousness, but they cannot explain why there is consciousness.

You know, the fundamental assumption behind all of these points is that things need reasons to exist.

 

[allhart]

You know, the fundamental assumption behind all of these points is that things need reasons to exist.

Post 563!

 

[MoonLancer]

1) Science cannot, by itself, explain why there is reason.
2) Reason and science can explain the existence of matter, but atheists cannot explain why there is matter.
3) Atheists can explain the existence of the universe, but they can't explain why there is a universe.
4) Atheists can explain the existence of nature and the laws of physics, but they cannot explain why there is nature and the law of physics.
5) Atheists can explain the existence of life, but they cannot explain why there is life.
6) Atheists can explain the existence of consciousness, but they cannot explain why there is consciousness.

well ironically all these things atheists cannot explain, nether can Christians using theology. They are questions that we just do not know at this time. "God did it" does not answer anything.

 

[allhart]

well ironically all these things atheists cannot explain, nether can Christians using theology. They are questions that we just do not know at this time. "God did it" does not answer anything.

A supernatural force responsible for the origins of not only human existence but all existence, and which itself has always existed and will always exist. For most, the supernatural reveals itself in the Creator-God!

 

[roflcopter101]

Science is a critical aspect of human existence, but it cannot address the spiritual nature of man. In this respect, science is a dead end around which the atheist refuses to reason. Reason itself informs man of its own limitation and, in doing so, directs him to the discovery of a force greater than himself...... Reason cannot, by itself, explain why there is reason.

Again, the assumption that everything HAS reason.

Also, if your line of reasoning is correct, it is perfectly valid to assume that life, the universe, and everything was created by a dog-like civilization (spawned from a maw into another universe) laying an egg and dipping it in fish sticks and then setting it on fire to create the universe.

 

[allhart]

Again, the assumption that everything HAS reason.

Also, if your line of reasoning is correct, it is perfectly valid to assume that life, the universe, and everything was created by a dog-like civilization (spawned from a maw into another universe) laying an egg and dipping it in fish sticks and then setting it on fire to create the universe.

which the atheist refuses to reason, reason itself

 

[b&wpac4]

which the atheist refuses to reason, reason itself

English can be so imprecise sometimes.

 

[MoonLancer]

explain why there is reason.

explain why there is matter.

explain why there is a universe.

explain why there is nature and the law of physics.

explain why there is life.

explain why there is consciousness.

assuming for a short moment that god exists, it doesn't explain any of these. And in fact adds something else that cannot be explained, God. So you really dont solve any dilemma or problems by using god or theology you just create more.

 

[allhart]

assuming for a short moment that god exists, it doesn't explain any of these. And in fact adds something else that cannot be explained, God. So you really dont solve any dilemma or problems by using god or theology you just create more.

Intelligent designer isn't a good reason Nothing comes from nothing not even your reasoning, for you theorize it! His signature is all around you. The Bible starts out "In the beginning "God" created the heaven and the earth". CAUSE AND EFFECT!

 

[b&wpac4]

Intelligent designer isn't a good reason Nothing comes from nothing not even your reasoning, for you theorize it! His signature is all around you. The Bible starts out "In the beginning "God" created the heaven and the earth". CAUSE AND EFFECT!

You are confusing the two of the meanings of reason.

When we say "Does everything need a reason?" it really means "Does everything need a purpose for being?" not reason as in reasoning a problem.

 

[allhart]

You are confusing the two of the meanings of reason.

When we say "Does everything need a reason?" it really means "Does everything need a purpose for being?" not reason as in reasoning a problem.

Turn reason in on itself. Can you explain reason? and where did it come from? Also you can't go to meaning before origin......

 

[b&wpac4]

Turn reason in on itself. Can you explain reason? and where did it come from?

Which kind of reason?

 

[allhart]

Which kind of reason?

Your mind has reasoning and consciousness that reasoning.

 

[Belk]

Your mind has reasoning and consciousness that reasoning.

There is a branch of science devoted to that question

Evolutionary psychology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[b&wpac4]

Your mind has reasoning and consciousness that reasoning.

Well, I think being Jewish proves that I think the ultimate source is God, yet I also follow the latest scientific findings. I find scientific theories about the nature of the universe, including the Big Bang theory, as well as the origin of species such as evolution to be amazingly interesting.