Atheist Universe: Not Impossible

[marksman007]

Except for Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Quatar, and UAE all gave money. Is that a lie for Jesus?

Can I have some evidence please or is that a lie for Satan?

 

[marksman007]

I did not say I was a Godlian but a Christian; as in believing the message Jesus tried to give mankind.

The bible says that a christian is one who is born again and accepts Jesus as the son of God. Someone who picks and chooses what he will or will not believe is not a Christian as nowhere does it say "if you keep SOME of my commandments, you are my disciple."

What is a Godlian? In 50 years of study, I have never come across the concept.

 

[marksman007]

You may find these interesting:

I am not interested in people's opinion. All I want is chapter and verse.

 

[IzzyPop]

This statement proves that atheists do not understand faith. For a person who has never sat on a particular chair before, all the experience in the world will not tell him that it is safe to sit in it. He can say, "I have sat in chairs before and they have not collapsed, so I can safely say that this one will not collapse." That is not understanding or experience it is faith.

Even if they sat on the chair yesterday, that is no evidence that it will not collapse today.

Faith is belief without proof or evidence. I have plenty of evidence that the chair will hold my weight. It has held my weight hundreds of times. What makes it different this time? It might break, yes, but if it shows no sign of structural damage, why should I think that it won't hold me this time?

Do you have faith that a car will start when you turn the key? Do you have faith the lights will turn on when you flip a switch? Do you have faith that a flame will burn you? If that is faith, then faith is cheap enough to be worthless.

That fact shows, despite protestations to the contrary, atheists have a great deal of faith. They have faith in non faith, which is no different to any other kind of faith except that their faith is a greater gamble that most others because if they are wrong, they lose everything.

Not really. You may want to talk to an atheist about what they believe rather than just assume it. I understand that you cannot fathom life without belief, but it really is a liberating experience. I have gained much more than I lost if you are correct.

Even though Pascal's statement is entirely true, they would still gamble 70 years for eternity. Now to my way of thinking that is not logic. The same as me going to a casino and although I have no proof I am going to win, I gamble my house on the roulette table. Saying that some people win is not understanding and experience, it is building your house on sand.

If I win, great. If I don't and that is more likely, I am a complete fool because I chose a course of action with the odds stacked against me. It does not surprise me that God said in his Word that the fool has said in his heart there is no God.

Faith in a roulette wheel is not exactly the stuff of intelligence.

But you are gambling at the same roulette wheel. You are putting your house on one of the thousands of deities that people claim exist. And if you are wrong, you are in just as much hurt as the rest of us.

 

[IzzyPop]

Can I have some evidence please or is that a lie for Satan?

Here you go.

 

[allhart]

Science explains the facts, it explains why things are the way they are, and why they aren't the way they aren't. No more, no less.


Indeed I can't, which is why no (sensible) person says that God categorically does not exist. What we do say is that there's no evidence for God, any more than there's evidence for the Tooth Fairy, or ghosts.


Yes, I did: thermonuclear fusion. Specifically, the Sun.


I think you mean "life wouldn't exist". The so-called 'dials of life' are more variable than you might think. But the key point is that a) there are a lot of planets out there, each with a different 'combination' of variables; even if it's supremely unlikely that any one planet 'gets it right', we nonetheless expect a small number to get it right. On those planets, life will form and evolve. We must necessarily be on one of those planets, because if we weren't, life could never have formed, and we couldn't be there.
And b) life fits the parameters it's in, much as a puddle fits the shape of the hole it's in. It's not that the Earth is fine-tuned for life, but rather that life is fine-tuned for the Earth. Notice how the vast majority of species cannot survive outside their local environment, and indeed major catastrophes in the past have wiped out ~99% of species.


So?


Hardly. If you want to know the scientific explanation for this or that, just ask. You don't have to go off on a rant, and then declare victory before the other person has even had time to respond. Did it ever occur to you that maybe scientists do understand these things? That we can quite easily answer these questions you have?


It couldn't, obviously. The tree evolved chemicals to kill the bug after it started eating its leaves. But bear in mind this wasn't an intelligent process: mutations in its offspring's DNA occasionally made certain proteins toxic to the bugs, and those offspring were suddenly much better off than their kin (who were still being eaten).


I'd say the tree evolved, because I know it's a self-replicating organism whose offsprings are minor varients of itself (which is the definition of evolution).. But the signature is not.


Agreed.


Uhuh. If you have any other questions about evolution, or physics, or science in general, don't hesitate to ask me or one of my compdrés .


Evolution!!!!!!!!1111

We haven't in our lifetime or in recorded history seen anything evolve, so how could the tree evolve fast enough to survive? That is just one of many species etc. How can anything have survived, Without a infinite all knowing designer! Even to say predator verses the vegetarian. Also nuclear fusion doesn't explain the energy in electrons, magnetism, cause and effect, nor what sustains it all! Quantum physics really changes the laws of physic and we don't know why some particles just disappear and reappear randomly.

In my logical thinking many atheists hold to presuppositions. Belief defeaters and can't or won't see the forest, because they won't step back from the tree...... Quantity can't explain itself. Reminds me of the story about four blind-men running into a elephant. While a man that sees is up above in a balcony looking down at them, see everything. One blind man runs into and grags his foot, another its tail, another its trunk, another into it side. All arguing on what they have run into, but the man yells from above. You idiots you all have grabbed onto a elephant. lol

You have more faith in the unknown of cause and sustained than I do! Until you have more discovery. I'm going to stick it out with my logical reasoning of a designer. Honestly it make a whole lot more sense. For you may spend your whole life missing the signature of the designer. Look at the created instead of at the creator......

 

[david_x]

We haven't in our lifetime or in recorded history seen anything evolve, so how could the tree evolve fast enough to survive? That is just one of many species etc. How can anything have survived, Without a infinite all knowing designer! Even to say predator verses the vegetarian. Also nuclear fusion doesn't explain the energy in electrons, magnetism, cause and effect, nor what sustains it all! Quantum physics really changes the laws of physic and we don't know why some particles just disappear and reappear randomly.

In my logical thinking many atheists hold to presuppositions. Belief defeaters and can't or won't see the forest, because they won't step back from the tree...... Quantity can't explain itself. Reminds me of the story about four blind-men running into a elephant. While a man that sees is up above in a balcony looking down at them, see everything. One blind man runs into and grags his foot, another its tail, another its trunk, another into it side. All arguing on what they have run into, but the man yells from above. You idiots you all have grabbed onto a elephant. lol

You have more faith in the unknown of cause and sustained than I do! Until you have more discovery. I'm going to stick it out with my logical reasoning of a designer. Honestly it make a whole lot more sense. For you may spend your whole life missing the signature of the designer. Look at the created instead of at the creator......

So you haven't heard of MRSA? HIV? Swine Flu?

 

[allhart]

So you haven't heard of MRSA? HIV? Swine Flu?

What do you mean by that?

 

[allhart]

So you haven't heard of MRSA? HIV? Swine Flu?

Good point, but there still needs to be a designer from the beginning for things to coexist.

 

[roflcopter101]

What do you mean by that?

All are examples of organisms that have evolved/mutated or mutate/evolve frequently. Flu mutates every few years, thereby requiring a new vaccine for every new strain (H5N1, H1N1, etc.). MRSA evolved from being easily treatable with modern medicine to a nasty version that cannot be killed with conventional antibiotics. The HIV virus just mutates all the time, which has been a huge problem in creating an effective vaccine against it, as a vaccine effective against one HIV strain may be useless against another.

 

[roflcopter101]

Good point, but there still needs to be a designer from the beginning for things to coexist.

Then why would there be such a thing as extinction?

 

[allhart]

Then why would there be such a thing as extinction?

Good point as well, but we have to answer the design before, first. Four fundamentals: Origin, meaning, morality and then destiny!

 

[roflcopter101]

but we have to answer the design before, first.

Why would design be necessary? Millions of years ago, life on Earth consisted largely of unicellular, microbial organisms. Now, humans exist that are made up of trillions of cells, of which each cell is magnitudes larger and more complex than the unicellular microbes of primordial sludge.

Four fundamentals: Origin, meaning, morality and then destiny!

Origin? Abiogenesis proposes that life on Earth originated from interactions between inanimate objects; the building blocks of methane, ammonia, and water could react to form amino acids, one of the basic building blocks of human cells and life in general.

Meaning? Maybe life has no meaning. For all we know, the universe could be cyclic, it could be caused by a predestination paradox, it could be a mere aberration in a marble played with by comparatively massive beings that resemble snails. How could you tell?

Morality? Morality seems to be subjective. What you may deem acceptable may be morbidly reviled in Saudi Arabia.

Destiny? It is perfectly possible that we could travel back in time and alter everything. However, no information would exist (due to entropy) to tell us that such a thing ever happened. Right now, millions or trillions of deviant time lines could be created, and you would be living in only one, with no knowledge of anything ever occurring. If so, destiny as we know it would be either impossible or highly improbable.

 

[allhart]

Why would design be necessary? Millions of years ago, life on Earth consisted largely of unicellular, microbial organisms. Now, humans exist that are made up of trillions of cells, of which each cell is magnitudes larger and more complex than the unicellular microbes of primordial sludge.



Origin? Abiogenesis proposes that life on Earth originated from interactions between inanimate objects; the building blocks of methane, ammonia, and water could react to form amino acids, one of the basic building blocks of human cells and life in general.

Meaning? Maybe life has no meaning. For all we know, the universe could be cyclic, it could be caused by a predestination paradox, it could be a mere aberration in a marble played with by comparatively massive beings that resemble snails. How could you tell?

Morality? Morality seems to be subjective. What you may deem acceptable may be morbidly reviled in Saudi Arabia.

Destiny? It is perfectly possible that we could travel back in time and alter everything. However, no information would exist (due to entropy) to tell us that such a thing ever happened. Right now, millions or trillions of deviant time lines could be created, and you would be living in only one, with no knowledge of anything ever occurring. If so, destiny as we know it would be either impossible or highly improbable.

I'm to tired and brain dead, I will come back and respond tomorrow, my friend

 

[roflcopter101]

Good night, allhart. Sleep well.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

We haven't in our lifetime or in recorded history seen anything evolve, so how could the tree evolve fast enough to survive?

Because it only takes a single mutation to change how (say) the surface coating on a leaf tastes to a bug. In the parent, the leaves are tasty, but in the mutant offspring, the leaves are bitter and horrible. I read an article recently about how the mirror-image of an otherwise sweet-tasting sugar molecule tastes incredibly salty and nasty. Just goes to show.
Also, it doesn't have to be quick. Bugs eating your leaves isn't deadly, it's just a bloody nuisance. It's like nits, I suppose: they won't kill you, but you'll be glad to be rid of them.
And for the record, we have seen species evolved in our lifetime. Everything an new individual is born, that's an instance of evolution. Indeed, we seen whole species form, both naturally in the wild and deliberately in the lab.

That is just one of many species etc. How can anything have survived, Without a infinite all knowing designer!

Apparently, quite well. The argument from personal incredulity ("I can't imagine how it could happen, therefore it didn't happen!") is, to say the least, fallacious.

Also nuclear fusion doesn't explain the energy in electrons, magnetism, cause and effect, nor what sustains it all!

What do you mean, "sustains it all"? The energy that allows life on Earth to form comes from nuclear fission. The underlying physics also explains how electrons, magnetism, and everything else also work. What, exactly, are you asking?

In my logical thinking many atheists hold to presuppositions. Belief defeaters and can't or won't see the forest, because they won't step back from the tree...... Quantity can't explain itself. Reminds me of the story about four blind-men running into a elephant. While a man that sees is up above in a balcony looking down at them, see everything. One blind man runs into and grags his foot, another its tail, another its trunk, another into it side. All arguing on what they have run into, but the man yells from above. You idiots you all have grabbed onto a elephant. lol

The sublime irony is that this story was originally used to show that all religions are basically wrong, and bickering about who's got the right religion misses the point that everyone's right.

Until you have more discovery. I'm going to stick it out with my logical reasoning of a designer. Honestly it make a whole lot more sense. For you may spend your whole life missing the signature of the designer. Look at the created instead of at the creator......

If you have a logical argument, please, present it. If you can actually demonstrate that something shows evidence of design, please, go ahead. But all you've done is basically ask rather simply questions about evolution and physics: "How does the Sun work?", "How do plants know to look pretty for bees?", etc. Try not to declare victory by asking such questions, because people will have invariably thought of them before, and answered them.

 

[tanzanos]

The bible says that a christian is one who is born again and accepts Jesus as the son of God. Someone who picks and chooses what he will or will not believe is not a Christian as nowhere does it say "if you keep SOME of my commandments, you are my disciple."

What is a Godlian? In 50 years of study, I have never come across the concept.

Check out PRE NECENE Christianity! The videos I posted mention the pertinent verses.
Proto Christians did not believe in the Trinity. They accepted Jesus as a human prophet.

If we put aside the superstitions jesus had because of the time he lived in and keep the rest then you will see that what he preached is no different to what peacemakers preach. Jesus did not create the Christian church. Humans did that. Not to mention that 300 years after his death they made him into a God.

All this born again talk has nothing to do with Jesus. We are only born Once!

 

[Psudopod]

This statement proves that atheists do not understand faith. For a person who has never sat on a particular chair before, all the experience in the world will not tell him that it is safe to sit in it. He can say, "I have sat in chairs before and they have not collapsed, so I can safely say that this one will not collapse." That is not understanding or experience it is faith.

You're right, it would be stupid to say that, hence why people don't. People will say "that chair is sturdy and solid, it looks safe to sit on;" or "That guy has been sitting in that chair fine, and he looks heavier than me, I should be fine"; or "That chair looks like it's about to fall apart, it's all rotten, it would be dangerous to sit in it". Of course, most people won't actively think these things when assessing furniture, but that's the sort of thought process they go through. It's understanding (rotten or rusty chairs are dangerous) and experience (I've sat on chairs like this before and can't see any fault in this one so I see no reason not to use it).

Remember, defeating a strawman does not defeat your oponents' argments.

Even if they sat on the chair yesterday, that is no evidence that it will not collapse today.

Why should we assume that it will, unless we have evidence to suggest it?

Even though Pascal's statement is entirely true, they would still gamble 70 years for eternity.

Again, you are assuming Christianity and atheism are your only options. What if Allah is the one true God? Or what if the ancient Greeks, or the Norse were right? Is Odin going to tolerate you anymore because your faith in a false god rather than none?

 

[marksman007]

And if you are wrong, you are in just as much hurt as the rest of us.

Your devotion to the God of atheism has blinded your eyes. If I am wrong, I am not just as much hurt as the rest of you. If I am wrong I have wasted 70 years, if you are wrong and you are, you have wasted eternity. I don't consider 70 years on the same plane as eternity. If you do, your not very good at maths.

 

[marksman007]

Check out PRE NECENE Christianity! The videos I posted mention the pertinent verses.

I take it then that you can't provide chapter and verse.

Jesus did not create the Christian church. Humans did that.

Matthew 16:18. "And I [Jesus] also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I [Jesus] will build MY church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Not to mention that 300 years after his death they made him into a God.

Evidence please

All this born again talk has nothing to do with Jesus. We are only born Once!

John 3:1 And there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews.
Joh 3:2 He came to Jesus by night and said to Him, Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God; for no man can do these miracles which you do unless God is with him.
Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, Truly, truly, I say to you, Unless a man is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:4 Nicodemus said to Him, How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter the second time into his mother's womb and be born?
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Truly, truly, I say to you, Unless a man is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Joh 3:7 Do not marvel that I said to you, You must be born again.
Joh 3:8 The Spirit breathes where He desires, and you hear His voice, but you do not know from where He comes, and where He goes; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.

Once for you, twice for me Praise God!!!