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Atheist challenge #2

Pete Harcoff

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Originally posted by seesaw
That's funny. :) I guess it's incorrect because you disagree with it huh?

That's what we call "ye ol' hand-wave dismissal" in these parts.

And he obviously did not read the article, because his very question "how were they buried" is answered.
 
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lithium.

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Originally posted by Pete Harcoff
That's what we call "ye ol' hand-wave dismissal" in these parts.

And he obviously did not read the article, because his very question "how were they buried" is answered.

Ye ol. :)
 
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notto

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Originally posted by tacoman528
To noobs,
You obviously did not read my explanation to that. It was possible that a mubslide could have covered it, protecting it, fossilizing it, until the flood came (if it, indeed happened before the flood) so that once the flood occured, the footprints are etched in stone or the eggs or termite's nest are stones themselves.

So, based on this explanation, I can assume that any fossils I find below these were not caused by the flood and that any layers of sediment below them were cause by localized flooding and accumulation. Is that a correct interpretation?

How do I tell the difference between sediment layers that were cause in this fashion versus those caused by THE FLOOD?

Where can I draw the line between pre and post flood sediment?

What features would allow me to do this?
 
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No gods

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Um, this is off topic but...

Tacoman, can you PLEASE use the quote feature at the bottom of each post you reply to??? PLEASE!!!! It would be nice to know what you are responding to. It makes it a lot easier to follow the "debate" that way. Thanks! If you need help on how to use it, just let me know!


<editted because bottom does not have an "e" at the end. :) >
 
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notto

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Originally posted by tacoman528
To notto,
not really, a wasp nest fossil could break loose and become stuck in any sedimentary layer, same with an egg fossil. Keep in mind that the sedimentary layers could have been distributed unevenly.

What about miles of worm tracks, animal tracks, and raindrops. What about multiple dinosaur nests from a nesting ground? What about petrified forests?

Are we to believe that entire layers could be moved, and settle in their correct orientations with NO evidence that they have been moved, with NO discontinuties as to where they were broken, and with NO layers ending up out of place with their surroundings?

Again, how can I tell the difference between pre and post flood sediment? What features would allow me to show this?

Can you provide evidence that these delicate features were caused by an original fossil breaking loose and then been refossilized? Can you provide evidence that that is a valid explanation? What would falsify it as an explanation?
 
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Pete Harcoff

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Originally posted by tacoman528
To Pete,
There is no record of the Egyptians saying, "We lived from 5000-3000 BC" as you seem to say there is. There is, however, a record that, very boldly states that there was a flood. Please show me a record that belonged to the egyptians saying they lived during that time period. I'll be anxious to hear your response.

"please show me a record"... What exactly are you looking for here? Some sort of text that specifically says "Yup, we Egyptians lived here for 5000 years and never saw a flood". Oi.

I have this funny feeling that any evidence I did direct you towards would be arbitrarily dismissed.
 
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here we go, now we're talkin',
Sorry, seebs, but this guy is asking for it.

quote:
Originally posted by tacoman528
The Earth is spinning at about 1000 miles per hour and it is slowing down. Very slowly. so slowly that 6000 years ago, it wouldn't be spinning too much faster. However, at the time YOU say that dinosaurs would be walking the earth: about 200 million years ago. The centrifucal force of the spinning earth would cause those dinosaurs to fly off the earth. And if it wasn't spinning that fast to begin with, anything that could make it spin that fast would have to be so big or so fast that when impact was made, life would be eliminated from the earth.



Wrong (at least the part about dinosaurs "flying" off the Earth)

quote:

The earth is moving away from the sun. Extremely slowly. So slow that 6000 years ago, once again, no big deal. millions of years ago is, once again, a problem.



edit: Scratch that. I re-checked and I overlooked a part where they also mentioned a rate of 1.5 cm per year recession from the Sun's mass decrease (slight). However, over the course of the Earth's life, it accounts for the Earth being 67 500 km closer to the Sun 4.5 billion years ago. Of course, the Earth varies its orbit by almost 5 million km (it's slightly elliptical). So again, no problem.

quote:

Rarely are complete skeletons intact



So?

quote:

trees running through supposed millions of years worth of rock layer



See Polystrate fossils

quote:

mass amounts of marine fossils in specific areas



Reference please.

quote:

dead clams on top of mount everest



Ever hear of tectonic uplifting?

quote:

Many cultures have their own version of the flood story very similar to the bible's flood story.



You mean like the Sumerian flood myth? Very similiar to the Biblical version. Except, oops, it predates the Biblical flood myth by a thousand years or so.

quote:

huge amounts of closed clam fossils (most clams open when they die)



Reference please.

quote:

The oldes tree is 4000 years old

The Nile, Amazon, and Ganges rivers all 4000 years old

The Sahara Desert is 4000 years old

Niagra Falls is 4000 years old



Completely irrelevant. Why, if I looked hard enough I could find many things 4000 years old. Of course, I can find plenty of things older than that.

quote:

By the way, human bones are found amongst dinosaur bones all the time. They are just ignored by most science textbooks (because they think that humans lived only 1million years ago and that dinosaurs died off much earlier)


Reference please.

_________________________________

To the first one about the earth spinning,
well, you are right about dinosaurs spinning off the earth thing, there wouldn't be any dinousaurs because of the huge centrifical force. The atmosphere would be gone. The water would be gone. All because of the huge centrifucal force. Making it impossible for life to have lived then

About the sun thing,

Even if the earth were 1 kilometer closer, it would eventually become too hot for life. The earth is set perfect for life, it couldn't have happened by coincidence.

Skeleton thing,

They are rarely intact because of the water. The bodies would eventually rot, the water (no matter how gentle it would be) would pull the bodies apart (see my current/tide explanation) if there weren't a flood, most fossils would be intact because there isn't anything to pull them apart once they rotted.

about the tree thing,

I did, I'm not convinced (see my previous explanation)

about the mass locations of fossils:

ever been to a diatomacious earth mining area?

about the flood legend:

when things aren't written down, they get changed a little bit every time they are retold. Good thing the Bible was written huh?

closed clam fossils:

goto: either www-drdino-com, or The Institute for creation research.

To 4000 year old thing:

like what?

Dead clams on mount everest.

That is if you assume Mount Everest was created by India crashing into China.

Human Bones with dino bones:

www-drdino-com or Institute for Creation Research



There you have it.
 
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No gods

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Originally posted by tacoman528
To no Gods,
I did go to your link. I'm sorry to say that it didn't convince me.

That's kind of funny that it doesn't convince you. I guess the fact that geologists who happened to be christians refuted your arguments over 100 years ago shows that your stance is a huge step BACKWARDS from where these men were.

Take a look at the follwing:

Many evangelical Christians today suppose that Bible believers have always been in favor of a "young-universe" and "creationism." However, as any student of the history of geology (and religion) knows, by the 1850s all competent evangelical Christian geologists agreed that the earth must be extremely old, and that geological investigations did not support that the Flood "in the days of Noah" literally "covered the whole earth." Rev. William Buckland (head of geology at Oxford), Rev. Adam Sedgwick (head of geology at Cambridge), Rev. Edward Hitchcock (who taught natural theology and geology at Amherst College, Massachusetts), John Pye Smith (head of Homerton Divinity College), Hugh Miller (self taught geologist, and editor of the Free Church of Scotland's newspaper), and Sir John William Dawson (geologist and paleontologist, a Presbyterian brought up in a fundamentalist atmosphere, who also became the only person ever to serve as president of three of the most prestigious geological organizations of Britain and America), all rejected the "Genesis Flood" as an explanation of the geologic record (or any part of that record), and argued that it must have taken a very long time to form the various geologic layers. Neither were their conclusions based on a subconscious desire to support "evolution," since none of the above evangelical Christians were evolutionists, and the earliest works of each of them were composed before Darwin's Origin of Species was published. The plain facts of geology led them to acknowledge the vast antiquity of the earth. And this was before the advent of radiometric dating.


taken from: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/ce/2/part12.html
 
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