Atheism

[JudaicChristian]

Lets see if my simple mind can grasp this...
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If I believe there are no gods, thats an act of faith, right?
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But if I simply dont hold a belief in gods... then what am I?
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If you do not believe in a creator being, then your faith is in Atheism. Now as for the term "gods" there are real and man made gods. Beings who have or will have life immortal are called gods. On the other hand there are man made gods with their own religion.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Mutation of species is a fact, but within limits.

What limits, exactly? Why do you think these limits exist? We have seen new species form from previous ones; how does this fit into these limits?

Atoms and gravity is science, but evolution is a theory.

Indeed it is: it is a scientific theory established by overwhelming evidence and its veracity is agreed upon by almost the entire scientific community.

Calling something a theory is not a bad thing. Einstein's theory of relativity is 'just' a theory.

 

[Mythunderstood]

If you have not made up your mind, then you are a Agnostic and not an Atheist. Because you are an Agnostic, only you can say you have no faith.

Yes, I am agnostic in that I realize that I do not have "knowledge" of god, but I am an atheist in regards to belief, because I also have no belief in god. I am an agnostic atheist.

Agnostics believe that it is impossible to "know" whether or not gods exist. However, this does not answer the question as to whether or not the agnostic has a belief in god. If an agnostic takes a leap of faith and decides to believe in god even though they admit they do not have knowledge of god, then they would be labeled a theist/deist. On the other hand, if the agnostic does not take this leap towards a belief in god, then they are by default "without a belief" in god, which makes them by definition an atheist. Most agnostics are atheists based on their lack of belief in god.

 

[durangodawood]

If you do not believe in a creator being, then your faith is in Atheism.....

I have not made up my mind one way or the other about God. BUT in this state of not knowing, I obviously do not have a belief in God.
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So, I dont have a belief in God because of an absence of faith, one way of the other.
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[JudaicChristian]

What limits, exactly? Why do you think these limits exist? We have seen new species form from previous ones; how does this fit into these limits?


Indeed it is: it is a scientific theory established by overwhelming evidence and its veracity is agreed upon by almost the entire scientific community.

Calling something a theory is not a bad thing. Einstein's theory of relativity is 'just' a theory.

When a life forms exceed their limits, they parishes. The work of an artist showing the progression of species is just that, a work of art, and not a established fact.
In regards to the rock from mars that has so called life in it. Well, no good scientist would ever commit to saying that it does have a form of life in it. Why. Because they is no way to know for sure.

 

[JudaicChristian]

I have not made up my mind one way or the other about God. BUT in that state of not knowing, I obviously do not have a belief in God.
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So, I don't have a belief in God because of an absence of faith, one way of the other.
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That is double talk. Either you are a fool, or you are trying to be deceptive. If you have not made up your mind then you are a Agnostic.

 

[JudaicChristian]

An Atheist says, I do not believe in a God.
A Christian says, I believe in a God.
An Agnostic says, I do not know what to believe.

 

[durangodawood]

That is double talk. Either you are a fool, or you are trying to be deceptive. If you have not made up your mind then you are a Agnostic.

Point to an attempt to be deceptive. Everything I wrote was utterly straightforward.
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Or, point out my error, what I actually wrote thats foolish. I bet you can't.
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[Wiccan_Child]

When a life forms exceed their limits, they parishes. The work of an artist showing the progression of species is just that, a work of art, and not a established fact.

True, but we have more than just art.

In regards to the rock from mars that has so called life in it. Well, no good scientist would ever commit to saying that it does have a form of life in it. Why. Because they is no way to know for sure.

Exactly: there is insufficient evidence to make a reliable conclusion. But, with the theory of common descent (what you call 'evolution'), we do have enough evidence.

An Atheist says, I do not believe in a God.
A Christian says, I believe in a God.
An Agnostic says, I do not know what to believe.

That may be your own vocabulary, but the more accepted is:
A theist says "I believe God exists",
A strong atheist says "I believe God doesn't exist", and
A weak atheist says neither.

Thus, atheism is simply those people who don't say "I believe God exists".

Gnosticism and agnosticism are to do with whether we can, potentially, know whether or not God exists. It has nothing to do with whether or not the individual does believe God exists.

I find it's more etymologically correct this way.

 

[Mythunderstood]

An Atheist says, I do not believe in a God.
A Christian says, I believe in a God.
An Agnostic says, I do not know what to believe.

It appears that you may not understand the difference between atheism/theism and agnosticism. Agnosticism has nothing to do with fence-sitting regarding belief. On the continuum of belief, there are only 2 choices, you either believe in god, or you don't. Here is a link to more info:

Atheism vs. Agnosticism: What's the Difference? Are they Alternatives to Each Other?

Question:
If atheism is just disbelief in gods, then what is the difference between that and agnosticism?

Response:
Many people who adopt the label of agnostic reject the label of atheist — there is a common perception that agnosticism is a more “reasonable” position while atheism is more “dogmatic,” ultimately indistinguishable from theism except in the details. Is this a valid position to take?

Unfortunately, no — agnostics may sincerely believe it and theists may sincerely reinforce it, but it relies upon more than one misunderstanding about both atheism and agnosticism. These misunderstandings are only exacerbated by continual social pressure and prejudice against atheism and atheists. People who are unafraid of stating that they indeed do not believe in any gods are still despised in many places, whereas “agnostic” is perceived as more respectable.

Atheists are thought to be closed-minded because they deny the existence of gods, whereas agnostics appear to be open-minded because they do not know for sure. This is a mistake because atheists do not necessarily deny any gods and may indeed be an atheist because they do not know for sure — in other words, they may be an agnostic as well.
Once it is understood that atheism is merely the absence of belief in any gods, it becomes evident that agnosticism is not, as many assume, a “third way” between atheism and theism. The presence of a belief in a god and the absence of a belief in a god exhaust all of the possibilities.

Agnosticism is not about belief in god but about knowledge — it was coined originally to describe the position of a person who could not claim to know for sure if any gods exist or not.

Thus, it is clear that agnosticism is compatible with both theism and atheism. A person can believe in a god (theism) without claiming to know for sure if that god exists; the result is agnostic theism. On the other hand, a person can disbelieve in gods (atheism) without claiming to know for sure that no gods can or do exist; the result is agnostic atheism....

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[JudaicChristian]

You guys flip flop around to much playing the devils advocate. By the way, you do it very well. I'm done speaking to you.

 

[durangodawood]

You guys flip flop around to much playing the devils advocate. By the way, you do it very well. I done speaking to you.

Flings insults and leaves.
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or is it: flings insults, and leaves.
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[dewaddict84]

Judiac, that's lame to cut and run like that. The reason you get everyone responding to you is because you're just so wrong.

First off,

An Agnostic says, I do not know what to believe.

Actually, it's a belief that it's impossible to know. That despite all we do, there will still be unknown out there. Am I a true agnostic? Naw, but it's the closest descriptor to what I've got going.

Secondly, whenever people start throwing around "theory" and "fact", this link deserves some love: Evolution as theory and fact - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
And gravity is a good example. It's a fact that it's observed, and it's a theory explaining how and why. A lot like evolution (beneficial mutation, speciation, cross-over gene replication, and the effects of selection) is observed, verified, and undeniable fact AND it's a theory of explaining why all this stuff happens.

 

[ArteestX]

Do you believe atheism to be a religion? Why or why not?

Atheism is a religion as much as "not playing baseball" is a sport or "not collecting stamps" is a hobby.

 

[JudaicChristian]

Judiac, that's lame to cut and run like that. The reason you get everyone responding to you is because you're just so wrong.

First off,

Actually, it's a belief that it's impossible to know. That despite all we do, there will still be unknown out there. Am I a true agnostic? Naw, but it's the closest descriptor to what I've got going.

Secondly, whenever people start throwing around "theory" and "fact", this link deserves some love: Evolution as theory and fact - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
And gravity is a good example. It's a fact that it's observed, and it's a theory explaining how and why. A lot like evolution (beneficial mutation, speciation, cross-over gene replication, and the effects of selection) is observed, verified, and undeniable fact AND it's a theory of explaining why all this stuff happens.

Flings insults and leaves.
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or is it: flings insults, and leaves.
.

It appears that you may not understand the difference between atheism/theism and agnosticism. Agnosticism has nothing to do with fence-sitting regarding belief. On the continuum of belief, there are only 2 choices, you either believe in god, or you don't. Here is a link to more info:

Atheism vs. Agnosticism: What's the Difference? Are they Alternatives to Each Other?

Question:
If atheism is just disbelief in gods, then what is the difference between that and agnosticism?

Response:
Many people who adopt the label of agnostic reject the label of atheist — there is a common perception that agnosticism is a more “reasonable” position while atheism is more “dogmatic,” ultimately indistinguishable from theism except in the details. Is this a valid position to take?

Unfortunately, no — agnostics may sincerely believe it and theists may sincerely reinforce it, but it relies upon more than one misunderstanding about both atheism and agnosticism. These misunderstandings are only exacerbated by continual social pressure and prejudice against atheism and atheists. People who are unafraid of stating that they indeed do not believe in any gods are still despised in many places, whereas “agnostic” is perceived as more respectable.

Atheists are thought to be closed-minded because they deny the existence of gods, whereas agnostics appear to be open-minded because they do not know for sure. This is a mistake because atheists do not necessarily deny any gods and may indeed be an atheist because they do not know for sure — in other words, they may be an agnostic as well.
Once it is understood that atheism is merely the absence of belief in any gods, it becomes evident that agnosticism is not, as many assume, a “third way” between atheism and theism. The presence of a belief in a god and the absence of a belief in a god exhaust all of the possibilities.

Agnosticism is not about belief in god but about knowledge — it was coined originally to describe the position of a person who could not claim to know for sure if any gods exist or not.

Thus, it is clear that agnosticism is compatible with both theism and atheism. A person can believe in a god (theism) without claiming to know for sure if that god exists; the result is agnostic theism. On the other hand, a person can disbelieve in gods (atheism) without claiming to know for sure that no gods can or do exist; the result is agnostic atheism....

​

True, but we have more than just art.


Exactly: there is insufficient evidence to make a reliable conclusion. But, with the theory of common descent (what you call 'evolution'), we do have enough evidence.


That may be your own vocabulary, but the more accepted is:
A theist says "I believe God exists",
A strong atheist says "I believe God doesn't exist", and
A weak atheist says neither.

Thus, atheism is simply those people who don't say "I believe God exists".

Gnosticism and agnosticism are to do with whether we can, potentially, know whether or not God exists. It has nothing to do with whether or not the individual does believe God exists.

I find it's more etymologically correct this way.

If you guys can not make up you minds as to what you believe, then why should I talk to you. There is no in-between.

 

[durangodawood]

If you guys can not make up you minds as to what you believe, then why should I talk to you. There is no in-between.

This much should be obvious: contrary to the belief of many here, atheism is NOT organized. We dont represent any official dogma. There isnt even a "we" in any meaningful sense.
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You cannot argue with five different atheists as if they were interchangable.
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[JudaicChristian]

This much should be obvious: contrary to the belief of many here, atheism is NOT organized. We dont represent any official dogma. There isnt even a "we" in any meaningful sense.
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You cannot argue with five different atheists as if they were interchangable.
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There are indeed organized Atheist; you can find them on the Internet. There is even a secret society of them, and that is where the word "WE" fits in. There is a bad thunder storm outside, I better shut my computer down.

 

[durangodawood]

There are indeed organized Atheist; you can find them on the Internet. There is even a secret society of them, and that is where the word "WE" fits in. There is a bad thunder storm outside, I better shut my computer down.

Do tell!!! (seriously)
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[Eudaimonist]

There are indeed organized Atheist; you can find them on the Internet.

There are a few atheists who gather together in groups, however "atheism" is not an organization and can have no dogma.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[morningstar2651]

Evolution is both observed fact and theory -- the same with gravity.

Things fall. The theory of gravitation explains the mechanics of gravitation - how things fall. Things evolve. The theory of evolution explains the mechanics of evolution - how species evolve.

Evolution is Not Just a Theory: home