Atheism one year with no reason to believe

TheListener · Aug 10, 2005

Study astronomy, the chaos theory and quantum theory. And relay your findings back into astronomy. See if harmony can indeed exist inside the chaos of a black hole. And see how it all comes together.

After that, study human dna/rna and human anatomy. See how different cells interact in different organs and how cell nucleuses may differ but all contain the same dna.

Then study psychology and human emotions, relay your findings back to human cell structures especially neuro-transmissions in the brain.

You don't have to be an expert on these, just read a couple of articles on each topic just to have some idea.

Then come back and tell me that it's all random and coincidental. I'd love to see you do that.

mamabear4 · Aug 10, 2005

TheListener said:
Study astronomy, the chaos theory and quantum theory. And relay your findings back into astronomy. See if harmony can indeed exist inside the chaos of a black hole. And see how it all comes together.

After that, study human dna/rna and human anatomy. See how different cells interact in different organs and how cell nucleuses may differ but all contain the same dna.

Then study psychology and human emotions, relay your findings back to human cell structures especially neuro-transmissions in the brain.

You don't have to be an expert on these, just read a couple of articles on each topic just to have some idea.

Then come back and tell me that it's all random and coincidental. I'd love to see you do that.

I'd love to see that done, too.

Morrowind360 · Aug 11, 2005

i call it coincidence and im not going to read or study for years.

TheListener · Aug 11, 2005

I said only read a few articles on each, just get the gist of it.

Personally, I don't have enough faith to be an atheist.

Lucretius · Aug 11, 2005

Morrowind,

I would suggest some books by Bertrand Russell on logic. I'm not implying that you don't have any!! I just find it easier to debate with some tips on logical thought under ones belt. You will find when you run into a Christian (or any believer in general) they will like to use the "too complex/perfect of a world" argument.

The logical conclusion the one that involves the least assumptions is that things are the way they are, because if they weren't, we wouldn't be around to observe them. It seems TheListener has asked you to study some things I hadn't even heard of at the age of 13. Take heart though, to get the basic gist of these things takes a few months, perhaps. I'm pretty well-versed in physics myself, and love quantum things in general. In fact, TheListener, I don't know how you can ask Morrowind, in a rather rhetorical fashion, how things can all be random, when quantum theory involves inherently random systems. The same goes for chaos theory. Why ask him "how can it all be random?" when it is inherently so?

And as for you not having enough faith to be an atheist that book is lame!

TheListener · Aug 11, 2005

Thank you Lucretius, I'll keep that in mind. I know what the chaos theory is and what the quantum theory is. My point was though within what appears as random chaos there is harmony.

Bertrand Russell on the other hand, I won't comment on him. I'm sure you have a lot of faith in mankind and our ability to eventually solve & understand everything following White & Draper's most excellent phillosophy.

Keep in mind Sir Thomas Huxley was a Christian himself.

Read how things digressed and see who's motives you have put faith into.

Lucretius · Aug 11, 2005

TheListener said:
Thank you Lucretius, I'll keep that in mind. I know what the chaos theory is and what the quantum theory is. My point was though within what appears as random chaos there is harmony.

Bertrand Russell on the other hand, I won't comment on him. I'm sure you have a lot of faith in mankind and our ability to eventually solve & understand everything following White & Draper's most excellent phillosophy.

Keep in mind Sir Thomas Huxley was a Christian himself.

Read how things digressed and see who's motives you have put faith into.

But many aspects of quantum theory are inherently random, and they are the most fundamental aspect of our universe. Quantum fluctuations for instance: where is the harmony in that? I do recognize various harmonies present in our universe, and especially in mathematics, another one of my favorite subjects. That is the bizarre thing about our universe though, isn't it? It actually makes sense to rational beings. Then again, perhaps our logic developed according to the laws of the universe, so that it could have been no other way.

TheListener · Aug 11, 2005

All I am saying from a Christian perspective is: There is no such thing as random, but there are limits to our perception and therefore things that appear as random are actually all under God's complete control.

God is the ultimate scientist

Welgaia · Aug 11, 2005

TheListener said:
Study astronomy, the chaos theory and quantum theory. And relay your findings back into astronomy. See if harmony can indeed exist inside the chaos of a black hole. And see how it all comes together.

After that, study human dna/rna and human anatomy. See how different cells interact in different organs and how cell nucleuses may differ but all contain the same dna.

Then study psychology and human emotions, relay your findings back to human cell structures especially neuro-transmissions in the brain.

You don't have to be an expert on these, just read a couple of articles on each topic just to have some idea.

Then come back and tell me that it's all random and coincidental. I'd love to see you do that.

Done and done. It's all random and coincidental, I'll say, though thoroughly interesting stuff.
Art buyer: It's beatiful! Such grace, complexity, such chaotic detail..... clearly a well designed piece!
Artist: Actually, um...... an electic weed whacker got loose in my painting studio..... but thanks anyway.......

TheListener · Aug 11, 2005

Welgaia said:
Done and done. It's all random and coincidental, I'll say, though thoroughly interesting stuff.
Art buyer: It's beatiful! Such grace, complexity, such chaotic detail..... clearly a well designed piece!
Artist: Actually, um...... an electic weed whacker got loose in my painting studio..... but thanks anyway.......

Actually its more like:

Art buyer: It's beatiful! Such grace, complexity, beauty, emotion.... clearly a well designed piece! What do you call this?
Artist: It's the Mona Lisa... And actually... um...... an electic weed whacker got loose in my painting studio..... but thanks anyway.......

Yeah, ok, I believe that...

Welgaia · Aug 11, 2005

Why would the art buyer say 'beauty' twice?

Actually its more like:

Art buyer: It's beatiful! Such grace, complexity, beauty, emotion.... clearly a well designed piece! What do you call this?
Artist: It's the Mona Lisa... And actually... um...... an electic weed whacker got loose in my painting studio..... but thanks anyway.......

Yeah, ok, I believe that...

Actually it's more like:
Art buyer: It's beatiful! Such grace, complexity, such chaotic detail..... clearly a well designed piece!
Artist: Actually, um...... an electic weed whacker got loose in my painting studio..... but thanks anyway.......
because that's what I posted in the first place.

TheListener · Aug 11, 2005

Ok.

Lucretius · Aug 11, 2005

TheListener said:
All I am saying from a Christian perspective is: There is no such thing as random, but there are limits to our perception and therefore things that appear as random are actually all under God's complete control.

God is the ultimate scientist

Why then ask Morrowind a question, the answer of which you already have your mind made up on? You ask him to tell you something is random, when you already have your mind made up that it isn't. What is the point?

Edx · Aug 11, 2005

TheListener said:
I said only read a few articles on each, just get the gist of it.

Personally, I don't have enough faith to be an atheist.

What does any of what you said have to do with atheism?

Ed

Osiris · Aug 11, 2005

TheListener said:
I said only read a few articles on each, just get the gist of it.

Personally, I don't have enough faith to be an atheist.

The reality is that you pressume that god exists, next assume that any thing that your subjectivity would consider miracles would be from god. Then you would hold this assumption as evidence for god.

It is not that you need faith to be an atheist, it is that you might be assumming too much and your expectations are much higher than what is observable in reality.

TheListener · Aug 11, 2005

(((((((((((((BIG BEAR HUGZ))))))))))))))))))

for all the atheists of this forum.

ahumanistbloke · Aug 11, 2005

Morrowind (awesome game by the way), by what process did you become an atheist? Did you begin to doubt God by researching and reading history (like me )? Or was it through science? Or reason and logic? What?

Edx · Aug 11, 2005

TheListener said:
(((((((((((((BIG BEAR HUGZ))))))))))))))))))

for all the atheists of this forum.

Does that answer my question?

Ed

TheListener · Aug 11, 2005

Edx said:
Does that answer my question?

Ed

No that wasn't my answer to the question.

If you can't see the answer in my question then try again.

Occums razor: whats more plausible:

1) everything you see in all its intricate detail and beauty (refer back to my question) is all random and people made up God.
2) God really does exist and has reached down to us and nothing is random.

It's easy to keep a simplistic view of the world and say the former is more simpler but the more you open your eyes, the more you learn about things the more you see it's indeed more possible something is behind it all.

Just my humble opinion.

LemmingLord · Aug 11, 2005

My question for the atheist captain of the forum: you seem to have your mind pretty set on the belief that you don't want to be a christian; is your resolve likewise firm on other common institutions such as marriage, child raising, and citizenship? Do you have set beliefs on them also?

Atheism one year with no reason to believe

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