Atheism (moved)

[Stormy]

What do Christians think of us Atheists on here? Do you think we should be allowed to post on a Christian forum? If not, why not?

Just in case anyone was thinking of asking, i'm on here because I seek answers to a lot of questions and there's no-one better to put questions/arguements/theories to than the very people they're based on.

PS, lease don't make it personal.

Before anyone makes comments about getting a free-ride, I just became a monthly site supporter. Nothing in life is free

I have no problem with atheists posting on CF.

I don't really know what else you want me to say. I am not in charge of making rules.. so what I want or don't want doesn't mean much.

BTW.. I am not a site supporter. I was under Erwin, but have not had the same feelings about CF since he left. So good for you! Someone needs to feed the kitty.

 

[drich0150]

Emotion is nothing but an Electro-Chemical reaction. There's nothing special to it. It's our minds processesing five senses, re-jogging its memory of past events and then making a Chemical release in the Brain accordingly.

A big part of the free thinkers mantra is decision making without emotion, based on fact and logic.

Freethought is a philosophical viewpoint that holds that beliefs should be formed on the basis of science and logic and should not be influenced by emotion, authority, tradition, or any dogma.

I've done Quite a bit of research about "Free thought" and to the contrary of what you seem to believe, it is very well organized. Just a simple Wikipedia search yields your definition of free thought, the free thinkers mantra, a list of books that hold the primary doctrine of free thought, (A Pansy for your thoughts?) The Origins of this movement and where it's going/how it's evolved. There is a list of a dozen or so churches of "Free thought" in the US.

So if you choose not to be apart of or acknowledge the "Free thought" movement in it's official capacity, then how do you categorize yourself?

You seem to be working independently from any organized version of this movement.. Are you truly here for the betterment of free thought?
It appears there is a very personal (emotional) element to your endeavor here. Are you looking for redemption? or absolution?

I didn't start my line of questioning looking to convert or to "save" anyone nor was my intent to show any inconsistencies in what you believe, but to have a basic understanding of what it is you believe.

I found you responses a little too incomplete. Because if man in all of his wisdom and glory can mess up a thing like love the lord with all of your being, and turn it into Organized religion, Then in my estimation there was much more to Free thought than you were providing.

In 30 Min's of a Google search and alittle surfing I have found many contradictions in your version of "free thought" and the mandated way of the "Free thinkers." So that leads me to conclude that your either here for rebellious reasons, Just wanting to lash out at everything that's supposed to be sacred to you. or I'm assuming you are searching for God, in a manor that lightly mirrors the tenements of "Free thought."

Then Why the need for my commentary? Honestly It doesn't matter to me where your heart lies, that between you and God. But if your going to do the God thing, then do it right. If your going to do the Atheist/free thought thing then do it right. Take that awesome gift you have of rational, logical, informed thought, and turn it on yourself. If for no other reason than to decide what you want for your life. then do it for that reason alone. Until you do the only real happiness you find will be in the emotional rantings you display in your conversion methods... I don't know, but maybe that's enough out of life for you.

Right now you seem to have a foot in two worlds. you have a taste of free thought and an after taste of Christianity. Make a decision and put one of them down. If you pursue free thought you quickly come to the conclusion that there isn't a need for conversion, or to continue studying and learning endless scriptures. When people are ready to open their minds, they'll come to you. When they do they don't need God's holy text explained to them. They need to know about "A Pansy for your thoughts" or one of the other "holy scriptures" of that religion

On the other hand if you looking For God, you will not find him in a text book or in a Argument about the In's and outs of Religious based beliefs (Free thought or Unscriptural religion) If you want God then all you do is ask seek and knock and keep doing so on God's door in prayer till he opens it. I can guide you if you wish, but know I don't have all the answers, not even 1/4 of them. Some things have to be relegated to a matter a faith. Just like every time you open a text book.

 

[Polycarp_fan]

It is with 1 Peter 3:15 in Mind that I ask questions

Peter believed Jesus was God.

Due to my argumentative nature (and also my immaturity at 18) a lot of my views come across as ridicule and hatred.

Due to my argumentive nature, most atheists think I hate them. And I certainly do ridicule them. It is a sin and I am trying to change that aspect of my nature. But, since i was once an atheist, it's tough dealing with the same old tired rote of the "free thinker." Man, talk about oxymoron.

Rest assured they are not and I will take on board any suggestions people have (atheist or otherwise).

Realize that "Christians" were not born the way they are now. Christians make a decision to become a Christian and you are going to find few worthwile people that you will convert to nongodianism.

That's one problem I come against is finding the right place to post in. A few of my posts Cross different boundaries (i.e. a recent one covered Dating and Theology).

You're here for your purposes. Everyone knows that. Christians evolve from non-believing to believing.

Once again, if i'm posting in the wrong place i'm happy to be corrected

You are where you want to be. And, we''ll see if you will be happy to be corrected. I'm thinking you're typical of the breed and have your mind made up (for you) that Christians are dummies.

Ever get the sum total of 0 x 0 equaling the seen and unseen universe? No matter how the Anti sings and dances, you have To me, it looks like "free thinkers" free themselves from thinking.

I prefer to retain the power of being a man when it comes to dealing with non-godians. Something like this:

. . . since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.

For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.

Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.

Hmm, it appears Paul had copies of National Geographic in his day. Certainly he was hip to Origin of Species.

And talk about 2008:

Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done.

They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents;

they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless.

Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

Paul obviously dealt with "skeptics" in his day and had visions of things to come.

I didn't bold everything, because I am practicing gentleness and respect.

 

[Polycarp_fan]

Is that a compliment? Sure. Atheism/Freethough/Agnosticism must, IMO have a Freethought equivalent of 1 Peter 3:15. It is only fair, after all, for Christians to defend themselves and attack us as vehemently as we do them.​

Since freethinkers/atheists are a rather simpleton bunch, it is difficult to reason with them without them becoming hostile and screamy. We ask: Why are you an atheist? And you simply attack the Bible and Christians. And of course, you free think exactly the same as every other freethinker. I'm thinking because you do not want to be beheaded if you attack other religions, you are here, as usual with your bunch.​

Admittedly 1 Peter 3:15 isn't the best of verses - I am guilty of using it to get an answer out of Christians for the reasons why they Hope (and also to engage in debate of wether or not those reasons are valid) True.

Everything coming from an accident bumping into other accidents for trillions of years are reasons to reject the atheist and their thought process "with all due respect." I don;t think you have any idea what Peter is talking about. For you it is a great place to shove a Christian into a fight.​

But if we as Atheists/Freethinkers et al invoke Gods wrath (See John 3:36) and you as Christians are there to preach the Good news (Mark 15:15, 16), surely you must be ready to quash any arguements we have (and allow us the courtesy of doing the same)?

What "arguments? Babies born blind? You don;t want to be "judged" by Sky Daddy? It's rote, the "questions" of the "freethinker." And Jude talked about these kinds of people:​

They are clouds without rain, blown along by the wind; autumn trees, without fruit and uprooted—twice dead.

*They are wild waves of the sea, foaming up their shame​

Why do educated elites make medicines that cause babies to be born blind? Don't they "care?"

Plus, you have God on your side so it is easy to destroy our views with reason, fact, logic and even scripture?

With a Bible shut and locked in a desk drawer, atheism makes no sense. It sounds more like a little child needing so much reassurance. The cliche sqeaky wheel.​

True, my bad for sometimes twisting verses to suit my needs (I got that skill from Christians).

You acquired the skills of a talented liar then. Ever "thought" about that?​

The more I learn about the Bible, the more i'll be able to quote relevant verses.

From skeptic websites and books. hardly "free" thinking. Read Mere Christianty by C.S. Lewis. You can get one for "free" at any good Church. And you are "free" to read it.​

Because I don't like seeing people have false hope, basing their entire lives on 2000+ year old teachings and submitting to the will (wether under Gods instruction or not) of Preachers, pastors et al.

So much for "free thinking" huh? The homogenized "freethinker" come to make everyone the same kind of person. The USSR failed pal. You are "free" to examine my assertions.​

It would bring great happiness to myself to see people think for themselves (granted, I have to respect if they choose to follow blindly - this is a Democracy after all).

Happiness is an emotion. Why are your electrical impulses important to someone else.*​

Who, said this I wonder?​

Emotion is nothing but an Electro-Chemical reaction. There's nothing special to it. It's our minds processesing five senses, re-jogging its memory of past events and then making a Chemical release in the Brain accordingly

See below.​

People have grave misconceptions of Atheism/Agnosticism/Freethought. Unlike Religion, there is no conversion process, no set text, no Prophet figure - it would all run contrary to what Freethought is.

You literally described your conversion process to becoming a "free" thinker. Er, "freethinker." Do you know who you are writing to? None of us were forced to become Christians. We made the choice as a free thinking process. We're really not idiots either. No, really. Stop listening to skeptic talking points.​

For example, I think Richard Dawkins is a bit of an idiot with the crazy views he comes out with - he would have been far better attacking Religion by proving the Bible to be false.

He doesn't waste his time on fruitless endeavors. he knows how to get rich. No differently than Marilyn Manson. Curse a Christian get rich. Dawkins is just a salesman hawking a product.​

Freethinking, as the name suggests, leaves people to make their own mind up based on fact, science, reason and logic - basic 'common sense' stuff.

Logic, reason, science and facts are why I became a Christian. Because sense is NOT common in many people, I see the reality of the Christian perspective. I see no sense in atheism. Just a cheap and easy way out of thinking about the great questions.​

There's no fearmongering by talk of going to hell,

Ever listened to Bill Maher? Or, any Atheist in a debate with a Christian???? They literally fear monger. Ooooo the big bad Christian is going to "preach" at me." And then of course the atheist mantra of pointing out the two wrongs make a right deal.​

and no false hope by talking of an unknowable afterlife where we all get to live in eternity (I detect a bit of wishful thinking/psychological crutch there)

Hmm, you atheists sure seem to want your forever here on earth. Literally. The concept seem inborn in us. Even the nongodiians.​

As mentioned earlier, I got that little skill from my Church. As I believe the Bible to be 'untrue' (oversimplification) any views/questions/theories arguements I have will come across as antagonistic and hostile.

The hostility in open forum, public debates between Christians and atheists have the atheists screaming in anger very quickly. Of course, the fact that we Christians are "finally" seeing atheism as a joke and not a threat is very enjoyable for a person like me to see.​

*Emotion is nothing but an Electro-Chemical reaction. There's nothing special to it. It's our minds processesing five senses, re-jogging its memory of past events and then making a Chemical release in the Brain accordingly.

There are at least 150,000,000 people that could be called Freethinkers so there is a real mixed bag of views/opinions/ideologies.

More than that if you count all of the people walking the streets late at night in major cities worldwide.​

Trying to impose freethought on others (which Is different to trying to make people see sense) runs contrary to its principle of making your own mind up.

People make up their minds to become Christians. A fact that you will haveto deal with some day. Not at 18 maybe, but your mind will open to thinking freely about the rights of other people some day.​

Plus, there is no 'Church' in Freethinking.

The Humanist Manifesto does not agree with your "opinion" here.​

Not yet anyway I think it is the duty of every freethinking person to encourage others to do the same.

Yet to outlaw opposition of the one mindedness of"freethinking?"​

I am here primarily because I seek answers. Sure, my posts often turn into debates/arguements but in them I am always trying to find answers. Why do I need answers? :

See some of my answers above.

*rote 2 (r

t)
n. The sound of surf breaking on the shore.

[Probably of Scandinavian origin; akin to Old Norse rauta, to roar.]

rote 1 (r

t) n. 1. A memorizing process using routine or repetition, often without full attention or comprehension: learn by rote.
2. Mechanical routine.

[Middle English.]
rote adj.

​

 

[1j9r8w9]

Mark 15:15And Pilate, desiring to do what was pleasing to the people, let Barabbas go free, and gave up Jesus, when he had been whipped, to be put to death on the cross. 16And the men of the army took him away into the square in front of the building which is the Praetorium, and they got together all the band.

My mistake. I meant to say Mark 16:15

We do if we decide to let our proud hearts take control, but if we adhere to scripture and what is wishes for us to relay to the unbeliever then, a I don't know or I'm not sure is an acceptable part of any response. Having an answer for every Question is a tenement of the Church of science and history, not one of the True Church of Christ. How can one being finite, comprehend something infinite? We at best have a general understanding of things spiritual.

So it’s ok for Christians to have only a ‘general understanding’ and not Freethinkers too? It’s OK for Christians to preach the unknowable as fact (and have faith in it) but it’s somehow not ok for the adherents of Science, Logic and Reason to do the same?

Matt 11:25 tells us that true knoweledge is hidden from the learned and wise. This scripture isn't only referencing those not of the Christian faith. Most of the time the more learned and wise we get the less we can effectively communicate the truth of faith.

Acts 7:22 tells us that Moses was learned in all the wisdom of Egypt, was he a poor communicator of the Faith?

God works sharper than any double bladed sword (he can cut both ways) But usually to the side of the person who wishes to submit to his will and word. Often times the motives in approaching a "Free thinker" is a Pride based decision. But, even so the decision maker usually has a heart for God. This being the case the best thing for pride is humility. When we approach a free thinkers argument outside of the parameters of scripture we only accomplish foolish arguments where both side cling to their beliefs even tighter, or we receive a humiliating experience, because again we over step our authority..

Or to re-phrase it, you don’t like arguing with Freethinkers because some seek to prove false the scripture that you rely on? It isn’t God humiliating you if you get stung in an Atheist vs. God debate, it’s called losing because your points aren’t as good as your opponents (it works the same way for Atheists who get beat badly by the God camp too)

We are told to just Give the reason for the hope we have, when asked. Anything beyond that is not of God. Remember Christian or not we are basically the same, what angers you, would probably anger me. All the way down to the pride values we share.

Exactly. It proves that we as Humans are largely indifferent – it’s got nothing to do with God. Sure, you’ll get angry when someone says God doesn’t exists whereas I’d just agree. Likewise if I got beat with the hypocritical preaching of a western Christian telling me how good God is, I’d be angry and you’d agree with them.

I have a similar view. I belive that most religious efforts/Church traditions are fundamentally flawed. in that they subjugate the people who have a love for God and wish to submit there lives to him. I fight a similar battle trying to shine a light on tradition, and "Religion" Man's effort to worship God in his own way. But Where we differ is that I still choose to hold true to the bible, as a point of reference or Standard to work by.

The Church has had 2000 years to get its act together. You can tell the worth of a tree by its fruits right (Matthew 7:17) ? So if the modern church (as a whole) is producing some pretty rotten apples, what does that tell you about the tree?

My belief in scripture is faith based, much like someone who chooses not to believe in it, because of an Idea or "Proof" written in yet another book. When it comes down to the basic fundamentals of what both Faith based beliefs are found on, neither the Christian or "Free thinker" can provide any fist person knoweledge to the accounts of creation, the origins of God, Heaven, hell, History preceding one's own life span, Or any science outside of what you have personally provided proof for. All of faith or even "higher learning" is, just Faith. Faith that the people recording history didn't have any personal or political agendas to influencing there writings. That the scientific community isn't or hasn't been biased to one particular person's research or Just has an accurate understanding of what ever it is it's trying to explain. Ex. Hole in the Ozone (that's not there anymore) Pluto, The predicted Ice Age by 2020 during the late 70's early 80's, Now Global warming, etc, etc... And yes even Faith that scripture is accurate.

That’s a very valid point. I will (at present) continue to have faith in the Science, Reason & Logic that got man by for 10,000 or so years before Christianity came on the scene; I will continue to have faith in the same Science, Reason & Logic that brought us modern medicine, transport and government. The Bible may have changed the earth in the last 1700 years but its done nothing to advance technology or science. It hasn’t shed any light on physics or biology, nor has it made any difference to the field of psychology. What it has done is fall victim to some modern Christians who twist science in their favour in order to try and prove their Bible as fact.

I've done Quite a bit of research about "Free thought" and to the contrary of what you seem to believe, it is very well organized. Just a simple Wikipedia search yields your definition of free thought, the free thinkers mantra, a list of books that hold the primary doctrine of free thought, (A Pansy for your thoughts?) The Origins of this movement and where it's going/how it's evolved. There is a list of a dozen or so churches of "Free thought" in the US. So if you choose not to be apart of or acknowledge the "Free thought" movement in it's official capacity, then how do you categorize yourself?

The definition of Freethinking may have been written down in books but I for one (not speaking up for all of the 149,999,999 other Atheists) don’t hold any book in high regard. Sure, some books are written by authors who share the same views as me but that’s as far as it goes. I don’t submit to them and they don’t submit to me. I’ve heard of Freethought settlements, but I haven’t heard of any Churches? Perhaps you could post some links and I’ll check them out.

You seem to be working independently from any organized version of this movement.. Are you truly here for the betterment of free thought?It appears there is a very personal (emotional) element to your endeavor here. Are you looking for redemption? or absolution?.......................In 30 Min's of a Google search and alittle surfing I have found many contradictions in your version of "free thought" and the mandated way of the "Free thinkers." So that leads me to conclude that your either here for rebellious reasons, Just wanting to lash out at everything that's supposed to be sacred to you. or I'm assuming you are searching for God, in a manor that lightly mirrors the tenements of "Free thought."

There is no Emotional element here, just a rational one. I am looking for answers to questions I have. Wether or not Christians want to hide behind verses to avoid answering them then that’s their prerogative. I may be young but I’m definitely not on here just to rebel and I find it a little absurd to suggest that I am wanting to destroy what is sacred to me. I’ll freely admit, my problem could lie not with God, but with Christianity. But as Christianity proclaims to be based on the real God, and I just see a lot of BS, it doesn’t look good. What contradictions did you find?

Then Why the need for my commentary? Honestly It doesn't matter to me where your heart lies, that between you and God. But if your going to do the God thing, then do it right. If your going to do the Atheist/free thought thing then do it right. Take that awesome gift you have of rational, logical, informed thought, and turn it on yourself. If for no other reason than to decide what you want for your life. then do it for that reason alone. Until you do the only real happiness you find will be in the emotional rantings you display in your conversion methods... I don't know, but maybe that's enough out of life for you.

I like the way you write as if you’ve known me for years but it simply isn’t true. As an authority on Atheism, how would you suggest I do it right? What am I doing wrong?

Right now you seem to have a foot in two worlds. you have a taste of free thought and an after taste of Christianity. Make a decision and put one of them down. If you pursue free thought you quickly come to the conclusion that there isn't a need for conversion, or to continue studying and learning endless scriptures. When people are ready to open their minds, they'll come to you. When they do they don't need God's holy text explained to them. They need to know about "A Pansy for your thoughts" or one of the other "holy scriptures" of that religion

Christianity was put down and buried under concrete a few weeks ago. It had been coming for years but it took a while to pluck the courage up to do it. Both of my feet are firmly here on planet earth. Sure, Christianity does have a shocking after-taste (of BS) but once you use some Listerene the bacteria is gone.

On the other hand if you looking For God, you will not find him in a text book or in a Argument about the In's and outs of Religious based beliefs (Free thought or Unscriptural religion) If you want God then all you do is ask seek and knock and keep doing so on God's door in prayer till he opens it. I can guide you if you wish, but know I don't have all the answers, not even 1/4 of them. Some things have to be relegated to a matter a faith. Just like every time you open a text book.

I asked, he opened the door, gave me two Illnesses and then kindly shut the door. God wasn’t there to heal me – GlaxoSmithKlein was.

 

[1j9r8w9]

Due to my argumentative nature, most atheists think I hate them. And I certainly do ridicule them. It is a sin and I am trying to change that aspect of my nature. But, since I was once an atheist, it's tough dealing with the same old tired rote of the "free thinker." Man, talk about oxymoron.

What made you lay down Science, Reason and Logic to take up the Bible? As an ex Atheist, surely you of all people must know where we come from. Unless you got your fingers burnt by an Atheist…

Realize that "Christians" were not born the way they are now. Christians make a decision to become a Christian and you are going to find few worthwhile people that you will convert to nongodianism.

My point, having been brought up in Christianity, is why would anyone want to choose it as a way of life? Sure, the Bible isn’t all bad and there are some great philosophical points (especially in Proverbs) but even a lot of that came from the ancient Egyptians (i.e. Moses got his stuff from them)

You are where you want to be. And, we’ll see if you will be happy to be corrected. I'm thinking you're typical of the breed and have your mind made up (for you) that Christians are dummies.

I’ll come to that later when I address the ‘simpleton’ label you gave Atheists. But for the record, yes, I do think you are dummies for believing the Bible. That’s not to say I don’t think you’re all intelligent people (a lot of you probably have a higher IQ than I) but I find it criminal (against rationality that is) that you have faith in the things you do.

Ever get the sum total of 0 x 0 equalling the seen and unseen universe? No matter how the Anti sings and dances, you have To me, it looks like "free thinkers" free themselves from thinking.

I’d never heard that one before. Allow me to borrow it if I may:

To me it looks like Christians free themselves from answering questions/debates by hiding behind a Bible that could be false, and using those scriptures of debatable worth as proof that God wants them to kick Reason, Science & Logic in the face…..unless of course they need to use RS&L in the form of medicine, transport et al

…

I prefer to retain the power of being a man when it comes to dealing with non-godians. Something like this:. . . since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.
Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles. Hmm, it appears Paul had copies of National Geographic in his day. Certainly he was hip to Origin of Species.

??? I don’t worship Idols. Anyway, Idolatry can’t be that bad ‘cause the Egyptians practiced it and Moses learned all their wisdom (and wrote some similar-looking pieces of his own too).

And talk about 2008:Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; they are senseless, faithless, heartless, and ruthless.

Are you describing my Church there? If you are, God must have given you a great gift of Knowledge

Paul obviously dealt with "sceptics" in his day and had visions of things to come.

No, Paul dealt with sceptics and realised he had to have a decent come-back, hence the fire and brimstone undertones to the verse. Just like Global Warming has been ‘massaged’ by Scientists and Politicians with axes to grind, don’t think Paul was immune to the same sort of pressures. Without a verse like that (and without his dubious claim that it was inspired by God) who would honestly take him seriously and do exactly as he said?...

Man says: ‘don’t read the God Delusion’, Other Man says: ‘I’m going to read it anyway’. Man says ‘erm, God says don’t or you’ll be sited’, Other Man says ‘Good point, I best not read it. It had bad reviews anyway’

…

Since freethinkers/atheists are a rather simpleton bunch, it is difficult to reason with them without them becoming hostile and screamy. We ask: Why are you an atheist? And you simply attack the Bible and Christians. And of course, you free think exactly the same as every other freethinker. I'm thinking because you do not want to be beheaded if you attack other religions, you are here, as usual with your bunch.

I can be perfectly reasonable as long as I get it in return. I get a lot of hostile BS on this site, and so I tend to naturally give it back. To answer your question, I am an Atheist because from what I’ve seen and experienced, this is definitely not a by-product of God. Now, this is where someone tells me that all the worlds’ ills are down to free will and the Devil? Hmm I don’t think so. The world’s ills are down to the geopolitical and socioeconomic issues stemming from man simply being man. Of course, the theory of Satan infecting all these people was a great theory before we knew anything about Psychology and before Science & biology took a massive leap forward and began to prove, little by the little that the Bible is definitely not going to stand the test of time.

Everything coming from an accident bumping into other accidents for trillions of years are reasons to reject the atheist and their thought process "with all due respect."

???

What "arguments? Babies born blind? You don’t want to be "judged" by Sky Daddy? It's rote, the "questions" of the "freethinker."

No, sensible arguments like:

Hypocritical western Christian in his nice house with his nice wife and kids: ‘God is a great, loving God. I feel blessed by him’, Raped Sudanese woman struggling to get by in Darfur: ‘Is this Gods love for me? Or is that Hypocritical western Christian going to blame it on the Devil ‘cause he knows that my suffering, as an innocent casualty of war, kicks his notion of a loving God in the face?’

…

And Jude talked about these kinds of people:They are clouds without rain, blown along by the wind; autumn trees, without fruit and uprooted—twice dead.*They are wild waves of the sea, foaming up their shame

What’s that about?

Why do educated elites make medicines that cause babies to be born blind? Don't they "care?"

No, they do care. That’s why we’ve got a life expectancy that’s doubled in under 100 years and cures from ‘Satanic Diseases’ that God kindly left for us (think Smallpox)

With a Bible shut and locked in a desk drawer, atheism makes no sense.

When you open the Bible, atheism makes perfect sense

From sceptic websites and books. Hardly "free" thinking. Read Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis. You can get one for "free" at any good Church. And you are "free" to read it.

A book on Christianity by a Christian? That’s like a book on Gods Love written by Hawkins. Biased as I presume it is, I might just buy a copy.

So much for "free thinking" huh? The homogenized "freethinker" come to make everyone the same kind of person. The USSR failed pal. You are "free" to examine my assertions.

Freethinking was given a signed death warrant 2000 years ago by a man you’re familiar with. It’s a shame that 2,000,000,000 people worldwide still follow his teachings. Freethought may go underground, but Freethinking will never die out – unless we all just get sick and tired of being abused by the Jesus camp until we capitulate to shut them up (it’s tempting).

Happiness is an emotion. Why are your electrical impulses important to someone else.*

…

For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction

The electro-chemical reactions in my body will cause me to do certain things – speak, write etc. Any action that affects another, even if only for a moment, will, for that period of time, be important to that person as it causes a reaction in them too – wether its just averting their attention away or angrily responding to a post I’ve made on Christian forums

You literally described your conversion process to becoming a "free" thinker. Er, "freethinker." Do you know who you are writing to? None of us were forced to become Christians. We made the choice as a free thinking process. We're really not idiots either. No, really. Stop listening to sceptic talking points.

You were free to be duped into believing the Bible. Likewise, you are still free to think for yourself if you put the Bible down and find your own meaning in life.

He doesn't waste his time on fruitless endeavours. He knows how to get rich. No differently than Marilyn Manson. Curse a Christian get rich. Dawkins is just a salesman hawking a product.

True. I was bitterly disappointed by the first part of the God Delusion (I’m still reading it now). Mind you, Dawkins could learn a lot from Benny Hinn et al if he really wants to make mega-money.Or, Dawkins could claim nature was going to kill him if we didn’t prop up a business venture a.k.a Oral Roberts

Logic, reason, science and facts are why I became a Christian. Because sense is NOT common in many people, I see the reality of the Christian perspective. I see no sense in atheism. Just a cheap and easy way out of thinking about the great questions.

Christianity is the cheapest way out of them all – resting back on the works of a handful of men, written over hundreds of years apart and largely unaltered since 300/400 AD. It’s Freethought and freethinking that has answered, or attempted to answer, many of the ‘great questions’ in life. Think Einstein, Freud etc

Ever listened to Bill Maher? Or, any Atheist in a debate with a Christian???? They literally fear monger. Ooooo the big bad Christian is going to "preach" at me." And then of course the atheist mantra of pointing out the two wrongs make a right deal.

The tables can be turned too. I’ve seen many a debate with Christians using the Bible to substantiate claims, when it is the authority of the Bible (and all that stems from it i.e. God, JC, etc) that is at the root of the debate

Hmm, you atheists sure seem to want your forever here on earth. Literally. The concept seem inborn in us. Even the nongodiians.

I know that I will die one day. I predict that it will be the way I think it will and that, as my brain dies, I won’t even by conscious of my demise. I do not lean on a book for hope that there will be (as yet unproved) everlasting life on the ‘other side’. Sure, it would make me feel good to believe in that little idea but I think I’ll stick to Science, Logic & reason

The hostility in open forum, public debates between Christians and atheists have the atheists screaming in anger very quickly. Of course, the fact that we Christians are "finally" seeing atheism as a joke and not a threat is very enjoyable for a person like me to see.

It’s also very enjoyable for freethinkers such as myself to see the world, slowly but surely, seeing Christianity as a joke. But, unlike you, I see Christianity as a threat.

More than that if you count all of the people walking the streets late at night in major cities worldwide.

There is a sex workers section on here. Maybe you can put that question to them.

People make up their minds to become Christians. A fact that you will have to deal with some day. Not at 18 maybe, but your mind will open to thinking freely about the rights of other people some day.

I believe they have a right to think what they choose, I just find it a great shame that they have decided to use that right to be duped.

The Humanist Manifesto does not agree with your "opinion" here.

Humanism does not necessarily equate with all ‘versions’ of Atheism. Sure, Humanists don’t believe in a God but neither do Buddhists and all three of the aforementioned beliefs have vastly different views on certain things. Quoting the Humanist manifesto at me is like me using the Mormon Bible against you.

Yet to outlaw opposition of the one mindedness of “freethinking?"

Not to outlaw opposition, but encourage others to think for themselves i.e. don’t be duped into believing the Bible.

 

[seashale76]

What do Christians think of us Atheists on here? Do you think we should be allowed to post on a Christian forum? If not, why not?

Just in case anyone was thinking of asking, i'm on here because I seek answers to a lot of questions and there's no-one better to put questions/arguements/theories to than the very people they're based on.

PS, lease don't make it personal.

Before anyone makes comments about getting a free-ride, I just became a monthly site supporter. Nothing in life is free

I like atheists who follow the rules of whatever message board they're on, the same as anyone else. Being a Christian board, it is annoying to sometimes see non-Christian posters who feel it is their job to be rude while attempting to smite people with their brand of enlightenment. It's the rudeness factor that determines what I think of certain posters. Believe me, it works both ways. I was once a member of a Christian Apologetics board, and there were plenty of horrendously rude non-atheists around. I still keep in touch with one particular atheist poster from there, after we were both unjustly banned. Great guy. Just like I know many wonderfully nice atheists in real life. So, yeah, I think atheists should be allowed to post.

Logical or not, many theists become atheists because of how they are treated by other theists. I figure that it could work the other way too. Very few theists would want to become atheists if all they see atheists do is demean their intelligence, etc.

Happily for us all, the internet is not real life. I'd hope that out there in the real world, we'd all see people instead of faceless rude non-entities who can cower behind their anonymity.

 

[Bryan519]

What do Christians think of us Atheists on here? Do you think we should be allowed to post on a Christian forum? If not, why not?

Just in case anyone was thinking of asking, i'm on here because I seek answers to a lot of questions and there's no-one better to put questions/arguements/theories to than the very people they're based on.

PS, lease don't make it personal.

Before anyone makes comments about getting a free-ride, I just became a monthly site supporter. Nothing in life is free

I welcome a "respectful" conversation with atheists. I enjoy a good religious or philosophical discussion with all kind of faiths and beliefs as long as it is engaged in a spirit of respect.

I think it's a good exercise for all Christians to engage in deep philosophical thought as to why they believe what they do. I believe it can strengthen faith.

 

[Bryan519]

I just read the other responses. You have a clever with about you. I'm not an atheist but I do enjoy your sense of humor.

 

[drich0150]

So it’s ok for Christians to have only a ‘general understanding’ and not Freethinkers too? It’s OK for Christians to preach the unknowable as fact (and have faith in it) but it’s somehow not ok for the adherents of Science, Logic and Reason to do the same?

Unfortunately No, Your's or The church of Free thought is a faith that's surrenders to the god of facts. Not of the unknown, or unknowable. even if the facts are wrong or based in fantasy, they are still facts. A fact is simply put, a statement that can be proven or disproven... And according to your definition of "free thought" You have to have answer.

"Thus, freethinkers strive to build their beliefs on the basis of facts, scientific inquiry, what's gone by one's own eyes, and logical principles, independent of any factual/logical fallacies or intellectually-limiting effects of authority, cognitive bias, conventional wisdom, popular culture, prejudice, sectarianism, tradition, urban legend, and all other dogmatic or otherwise fallacious principles.

I personally would have alittle more compassion, if we were discussing the origins of life or the nature of "Christianity", but To exibit blind faith in your system of belief is a foolish concept for the christian or atheist.

Acts 7:22 tells us that Moses was learned in all the wisdom of Egypt, was he a poor communicator of the Faith?

I personally would say that moses was a very poor Communicator of actual faith. Faith is a system of belief that is not based on proof: Moses had a direct line to God's ear, and access to his hand. Exactly where do you think he needed to show or communicate defined faith?
He had to convince Pharaoh that if he did not let his people go the wrath of God would rain down on Egypt. it is only after 10 plagues and the death of Pharaoh's 1st son was Moses able to convince Pharaoh to release the Hebrews. Do you think after this example Moses was a good communicator of "Faith"

Or to re-phrase it, you don’t like arguing with Freethinkers because some seek to prove false the scripture that you rely on? It isn’t God humiliating you if you get stung in an Atheist vs. God debate, it’s called losing because your points aren’t as good as your opponents (it works the same way for Atheists who get beat badly by the God camp too)

Your right, but it doesn't matter how the Humiliation comes about. Whether it be you, a genuine free thinker or anyone else. It's what the brother does with his hat when it's handed to him that's important. If we handle the humbling experience correctly ultimately we return to God's word. In this case the word contains the truth of how we are to respond when we are asked to "defend the faith."

The Church has had 2000 years to get its act together. You can tell the worth of a tree by its fruits right (Matthew 7:17) ? So if the modern church (as a whole) is producing some pretty rotten apples, what does that tell you about the tree?

Exactly! This is my struggle. We I approach hypocrisy in the church or any of it's true worshipers I'm considered an unbeliever too. There is a razors edge between True faith and Relationship with God. and what Pop Christianity has been selling for the last few thousand years.

That’s a very valid point. I will (at present) continue to have faith in the Science, Reason & Logic that got man by for 10,000 or so years before Christianity came on the scene; I will continue to have faith in the same Science, Reason & Logic that brought us modern medicine, transport and government. The Bible may have changed the earth in the last 1700 years but its done nothing to advance technology or science. It hasn’t shed any light on physics or biology, nor has it made any difference to the field of psychology. What it has done is fall victim to some modern Christians who twist science in their favour in order to try and prove their Bible as fact.

Actually Science, is a child of Christianity " Christians who twist science in their favour in order to try and prove their Bible as fact." Was the reason the Church invented/coined/blessed started science to begin with.
http://www.columbia.edu/cu/augustine/a/science_origin.html

The definition of Freethinking may have been written down in books but I for one (not speaking up for all of the 149,999,999 other Atheists) don’t hold any book in high regard. Sure, some books are written by authors who share the same views as me but that’s as far as it goes. I don’t submit to them and they don’t submit to me. I’ve heard of Freethought settlements, but I haven’t heard of any Churches? Perhaps you could post some links and I’ll check them out.

That's just it. If you don't agree with the tenements of "Free thinking" then your not of that "Faith." Like I agree with alot of what the Catholic church believes, but in no way does that make me catholic. Primarily because there is a great deal more that I do not agree with. Maybe you could start your own movement, the Beliefs of the Ronin. (Servants without masters) Where you can believe what or who you want and not be constrained by anyway of thinking.. If that were the case could I join?
Here is the link you requested:
http://www.churchoffreethought.org/

What contradictions did you find?

The act of seeking and saving the unenlightened souls. Or the Mission work you are doing here.

The lack of information you were able to provide when asked about the basic doctrine of your faith.

The assimilation of "biblical scripture" in your primary belief structure. (true free thinking should not be influenced by emotion, authority, tradition, or any dogma.) *See the first responce you made to my inquerries

The emotion you seem to show when speaking or Arguing with others.

The absence of knoweledge of the practice of this faith.

how would you suggest I do it right? What am I doing wrong?

simply put, If your done with christianity, then leave it completely, If your wanting to be a free thinker, then learn to think as they do. Pick up the correct text, read the prescribed reading, and devote yourself to your new faith. So when some fool asks about the basics of free thought, you can do more than Preach biblical principle to him.

I asked, he opened the door, gave me two Illnesses and then kindly shut the door. God wasn’t there to heal me – GlaxoSmithKlein was.

I guess you and I are mirror opposites, I Was diagnosed with a terminal illness, There was nothing that modern science or GlaxoSmithKlein could do for me. And now after lot of prayer and a few blood tests I'm AIDS free.. Don't ask why me, and not you. That's a big I don't know. I can only Say that God has mercy on whom he wishes to have mercy..

Well in the long run we both have a new lease on life. I know I don't have to tell you of all people to use your time here wisely. So I should say I truly hope you do find what ever it is your searching for..

 

[Sketcher]

It depends on the atheist. I don't like belligerent atheists, period. If they're respectful, then fine. Just respect certain places of the forum because Christians need a place of their own on the Net.

 

[1j9r8w9]

Your's or The church of Free thought is a faith that's surrenders to the god of facts. Not of the unknown, or unknowable. even if the facts are wrong or based in fantasy, they are still facts. A fact is simply put, a statement that can be proven or disproven... And according to your definition of "free thought" You have to have answer.

You more or less answered it for me:

Freethinkers strive to build their beliefs on the basis of facts, scientific inquiry, what's gone by one's own eyes, and logical principles, independent of any factual/logical fallacies or intellectually-limiting effects of authority, cognitive bias, conventional wisdom, popular culture, prejudice, sectarianism, tradition, urban legend, and all other dogmatic or otherwise fallacious principles.

…

I personally would have alittle more compassion, if we were discussing the origins of life or the nature of "Christianity", but To exibit blind faith in your system of belief is a foolish concept for the christian or atheist.

Definition of faith (i.e. Christianity)

Faith is a belief in the trustworthiness of an idea that has not been proven. Formal usage of the word "faith" is usually reserved for concepts of religion, as in theology, where it almost universally refers to a trusting belief in a transcendent reality (ergo a belief in a spiritual nature and in spiritual immortality), or else in a Supreme Being and said being's role in the order of transcendent, spiritual things.

Definition of belief (i.e. Freethinking):

Belief is the psychological state in which an individual holds a proposition or premise to be true.

. I believe in Freethinking as a process – I don’t have faith in it as I see it as absolute truth. Naturally, some Christians will say the feel the same about their Religion but my point here is Freethinking is not Faith, there’s no uncertainity to the central tenants of it (i.e. there’s no Raising from the Dead or Richard Dawkins walking on water)

I personally would say that moses was a very poor Communicator of actual faith. Faith is a system of belief that is not based on proof: Moses had a direct line to God's ear, and access to his hand. Exactly where do you think he needed to show or communicate defined faith?

40 Years of loitering in a small area of Desert and the 10 Commandments come to mind as ‘Communicating Faith’ – he would have needed to offer something good to all those idiots that followed him.

If we handle the humbling experience correctly ultimately we return to God's word. In this case the word contains the truth of how we are to respond when we are asked to "defend the faith."

So when you get beat, you bury your head in the sand?

Exactly! This is my struggle. We I approach hypocrisy in the church or any of it's true worshipers I'm considered an unbeliever too. There is a razors edge between True faith and Relationship with God. and what Pop Christianity has been selling for the last few thousand years.

I appreciate your frustration, it’s what nudged me in the way of Atheism (I saw too much BS and a Bible that backed up a lot of what they were doing). All I’ll say is that you really do judge a tree by its fruit…………..

Actually Science, is a child of Christianity " Christians who twist science in their favour in order to try and prove their Bible as fact." Was the reason the Church invented/coined/blessed started science to begin with.
http://www.columbia.edu/cu/augustine...ce_origin.html

…Please read the following on Science and the Age of Enlightenment

The scientific history of the Age of Enlightenment traces developments in science and technology during the Age of Reason, when Enlightenment ideas and ideals were being disseminated across Europe and North America. Generally, the period spans from the final days of the sixteenth and seventeenth-century Scientific revolution until roughly the nineteenth century, after the French Revolution (1789) and the Napoleonic era (1799-1815). The scientific revolution saw the creation of the first scientific societies, the rise of Copernicanism, and the displacement of Aristotelian natural philosophy and Galen’s ancient medical doctrine. By the eighteenth century, scientific authority began to displace religious authority, and the disciplines of alchemy and astrology lost scientific credibility…….…..Science during the Enlightenment was dominated by scientific societies and academies, which had largely replaced universities as centres of scientific research and development. Societies and academies were also the backbone of the maturation of the scientific profession. Another important development was the popularization of science among an increasingly literate population. Philosophes introduced the public to many scientific theories, most notably through the Encyclopédie and the popularization of Newtonianism by Voltaire. Some historians have marked the eighteenth century as a drab period in the history of science;[2] however, the century saw significant advancements in the practice of medicine, mathematics, and physics; the development of biological taxonomy; a new understanding of magnetism and electricity; and the maturation of chemistry as a discipline, which established the foundations of modern chemistry.

Was it just a coincidence that when Man began to see Christianity as false, Science made some pretty big breakthroughs?

That's just it. If you don't agree with the tenements of "Free thinking" then your not of that "Faith."

? But I agree with nearly all of them

Maybe you could start your own movement, the Beliefs of the Ronin. (Servants without masters) Where you can believe what or who you want and not be constrained by anyway of thinking..

Sounds like a plan

If that were the case could I join?

Sure, you’d have to be a Freethinker first though

Here is the link you requested: http://www.churchoffreethought.org/

Thanks. According to their website, their mission is:

"To promote and advance, as a moral imperative, the unfettered power of thought over belief, of reason over faith, of facts over revelation and superstition, and of knowledge over dogmas and doctrines, especially in matters of religion and religious opinion. In so doing, the NTCOF intends to safeguard these important elements of human interest and experience from the stranglehold of tradition, the dangers of authority, and the unthinking grasp of established belief, as well as from the prejudices and intolerances engendered by them, in order to address the human need for understanding within both the categories of public, social, and objective truth, and of personal, individual, and subjective insight and self discovery.".

Christians join together because they share common values – is it ok for Freethinkers to join a group of like-minded people?

The act of seeking and saving the unenlightened souls. Or the Mission work you are doing here.

How is that contradictory?

The lack of information you were able to provide when asked about the basic doctrine of your faith.

Freethinking is not a faith. It has a central tenant, but no Doctrine, Dogma or Authority. You will have seen that in your enquiries.

The assimilation of "biblical scripture" in your primary belief structure. (true free thinking should not be influenced by emotion, authority, tradition, or any dogma.) *See the first responce you made to my inquerries

The Bible does have some useful observations on life, especially Proverbs and some of the Teachings of Jesus. Being a con-man, Jesus would have been a pretty clever guy and he did indeed come out with some philosophical teachings. I use certain parts of the Bible (and other Religious books) to help me form my own opinion on what is right or wrong (as is Common in Freethinking).

The emotion you seem to show when speaking or Arguing with others.

?

The absence of knoweledge of the practice of this faith.

I went to Church for 18 years before I became a Freethinker. I’m no expert, but I know a fair bit about practicing Christianity.

I guess you and I are mirror opposites, I Was diagnosed with a terminal illness, There was nothing that modern science or GlaxoSmithKlein could do for me. And now after lot of prayer and a few blood tests I'm AIDS free.. Don't ask why me, and not you. That's a big I don't know. I can only Say that God has mercy on whom he wishes to have mercy..

I spent six months asking for ‘Mercy’ from a Disease I was told came from ‘Satan’ anyway. I’m glad your body healed itself (which it has a remarkable capability to do), especially something as serious as AIDS. But I know for sure that this ‘God of Love’ who’s looking out for his people is just complete rubbish. Sorry if that offends you but nothing will make me change my opinion.

Well in the long run we both have a new lease on life. I know I don't have to tell you of all people to use your time here wisely. So I should say I truly hope you do find what ever it is your searching for..

I found myself a great Freethinking-esque forum (Internet Infidels) so I will only venture on to here when I have questions to ask. But, if my responses/enquiries/views are debated, then I’ll be sure to join in.

 

[Polycarp_fan]

What made you lay down Science, Reason and Logic to take up the Bible? As an ex Atheist, surely you of all people must know where we come from.

Pure egotism. I know what an atheist is. A self-made man allows worships his creator. That has proven far to deadly for mankind.

Unless you got your fingers burnt by an Atheist…

Hundreds of millions of people have been literaly burned by atheists. I fight back. That is why I reject some of atheism's insanity and lean on logic and reason to reject the notion that everything happened by another accident. I cannot choose stupidity (anymore). The Apostles and Jesus give too much good advice to ignore or alter for selfisness. Their science is sound and based squarely on logic. Literally so in fact.

My point, having been brought up in Christianity, is why would anyone want to choose it as a way of life?

It's as close to perfect a rational belief system as there has ever been. It makkes too much sense in the rational world.

Sure, the Bible isn’t all bad and there are some great philosophical points (especially in Proverbs) but even a lot of that came from the ancient Egyptians (i.e. Moses got his stuff from them) I’ll come to that later when I address the ‘simpleton’ label you gave Atheists.

truth is truth. Even an atheist knows they have to breathe to stay alive. A broken clock you know. It's always right twice. (Unless of course it's a military clock.)

But for the record, yes, I do think you are dummies for believing the Bible.

I find clowns funny and frightening. Christians have been clowns, can still be, have been frightening and can be, but they are not choosing to decide chaos is a sensible belief system. Decided by the facts, atheism is devoid of logic and reason. It's just nonsense for stuffy old guys to talk about.

That’s not to say I don’t think you’re all intelligent people (a lot of you probably have a higher IQ than I) but I find it criminal (against rationality that is) that you have faith in the things you do.

Yes, at the heart of atheism is the outlawing of free thinking. It is what it is. We Christians know what you are and what you are up to. Hope you want to build a lot of prisons. And seeing that Christians are the most important tax base, you atheists will be bankrupt "financially" too. As you so correctly "observe" Christians are indeed smart people. We can't not be.

I’d never heard that one before. Allow me to borrow it if I may: … ??? I don’t worship Idols.

You atheists have idols, prophets, priests and and kings. Get a grip on reality huh? You also have your doomsday scenario pushing your beleif-sytem. To your worldview the sky literall is falling. Your priests see the signs.

Anyway, Idolatry can’t be that bad ‘cause the Egyptians practiced it and Moses learned all their wisdom (and wrote some similar-looking pieces of his own too).

You parrot what your teachers teach you. So much for "free thinking" huh. The similarity of religions makes atheism a religion. Warnings from your prophets and priests and all. Smell the coffee pal.

Are you describing my Church there? If you are, God must have given you a great gift of Knowledge No, Paul dealt with sceptics and realised he had to have a decent come-back, hence the fire and brimstone undertones to the verse.

Paul was nicer about non-godians than I am. But Paul was a smart guy and knew the nonsense of atheism well. Not many great philosphers were atheists. I doubt even one of them was. Your prophets in insane asylums and dead having lived a life of pure egtism. What a wasted endeavor.

Just like Global Warming has been ‘massaged’ by Scientists and Politicians with axes to grind, don’t think Paul was immune to the same sort of pressures.

WELLLLL, what do you know. Atheist religion. You can see somewhat.

Without a verse like that (and without his dubious claim that it was inspired by God) who would honestly take him seriously and do exactly as he said?...… I can be perfectly reasonable as long as I get it in return.

Atheism is un "reason" able. Do the math. Atheism is dying faster than TV evangelism.

I get a lot of hostile BS on this site, and so I tend to naturally give it back.

The smell of nonsense is like you-know-what, on a person's shoe. But trust me, we love you. If you truly desire to think freely, you will become a Christian. If you freely believe in logic and reason. You atheists can't bully us anymore and you are even more angry at that. You look silly more often than not now. We're just not scared anymore. Your mask is off, and you are just angry people wanting answers you are too lazy to look for. Nothing noble in atheism really. It's the "ultimate" cop-out. We walk away from your debates sad for you. The anger and bitterness is history.

To answer your question, I am an Atheist because from what I’ve seen and experienced, this is definitely not a by-product of God.

OK. As you go through life, that will change. Unless of course you stick eith your limited view of all things. Atheism is nonsense in the literal use of that word. What I have seen and experinced, without a Bible anywhere near me most of the time, led me away from the idiocy of atheism. It literally makes no sense.

Now, this is where someone tells me that all the worlds’ ills are down to free will and the Devil? Hmm I don’t think so. The world’s ills are down to the geopolitical and socioeconomic issues stemming from man simply being man.

You have your opinionn based on what there? When things are going great, people still do nasty things. Why is that I wonder? Science proves the congenital sin condition of man. Even atheist men. Childrrn in a playground will show the toughest kids getting the toys and snacks by force over the less agreesive ones. Very Darwinian UNTIL< the weaker ones protest. Then God enters the nature of human beings as a matter of fact. You need to open your eyes to fact-based belief systems, not the wishful thinking mythology of atheism.

PART TWO IN ANOTHER POST:

 

[Polycarp_fan]

PART TWO IN THIS THREAD (maybe):

Of course, the theory of Satan infecting all these people was a great theory before we knew anything about Psychology and before Science & biology took a massive leap forward and began to prove, little by the little that the Bible is definitely not going to stand the test of time.

Umm, do you know that "psyche" means "soul?" You know, "before" the psychologists started their "business."

And of course, you are aware that "psychology" is on its fourth alteration of its "bible?" The DSM "IV." You ask a psychologist one question and you'll get forty answers and a trip to a "psychiatrist" for the meds to answer the questions that "psychology" cannot and will not EVER be able to answer. Psychology is a evil joke on mankind. If you don;t accept what a "psychologist" says about you, "you are in denial." If you want to see a good picture of the satanic, look at psychology with your eyes and ears open. It is a trap where the psychologist can only allow freedom. And, why would they do that when they'll lose a paying customer. DO THE MATH my atheist "adversary."

[quite]??? No, sensible arguments like: … What’s that about? No, they do care. That’s why we’ve got a life expectancy that’s doubled in under 100 years and cures from ‘Satanic Diseases’ that God kindly left for us (think Smallpox)[/quote]

Without disease there would be how many hundreds of trillions of people on earth? We do not fear death because it is a fact and not scary. It sure look slike the atheist is terrified of "natural causes." Also, the atheist scientist trying to find cures is about as hypocritical to the Darwinian dogma they follow (uber alles) as it gets.

When you open the Bible, atheism makes perfect sense A book on Christianity by a Christian?

Pull up your pants. Your ignorance is showing.

"Christian" is an epithet given to Jews and Greek followers of the Israelite Messiah by "skeptics." And as we see today, those people are bobbleheads today as well. "Christians" come in many varieties. Atheists? only one flavor. Rote. Is that a flavor? Let me taste it, yup.

It (Christianity) also does not offer any pats on the back to its adherants. Now, look at atheism in the light of logic. It gives you every answer to every thing. And yet, "even you" know how fultile that "thinking" is. Atheists ahve been many of the worst people in history.

That’s like a book on Gods Love written by Hawkins.

If I were hawkins I would probably be an atheist. From his perspective, things don't look to good. Any "atheist" that rejects God because bad things happen to good people are welcome in my classroom and Church anytime.

Biased as I presume it is, I might just buy a copy. Freethinking was given a signed death warrant 2000 years ago by a man you’re familiar with. It’s a shame that 2,000,000,000 people worldwide still follow his teachings. Freethought may go underground, but Freethinking will never die out – unless we all just get sick and tired of being abused by the Jesus camp until we capitulate to shut them up (it’s tempting). …

It dosn;t take long to get you guys to show your real face. And ignorance. "Jesus" is all about free thinking and choice. It appears THAT choice, is what atheists hate the most. Boo hoo. I dislike the martyrdom complex worse than the religious fanaticsa and atheist egotists that desire to base their stand on it. No one is bothering you pal. And, most of the neo-atheists are easy to deal with. Don't talk to them and you'll live a hassles free life. It's when atheists desire to rule over the populace by legislation, education, and politics, that "we religious people," must drive you atheists away from power. It's just a logical choice to make. Atheism is far too deadly a mythology to allow its proponents to rule over mankind.

The electro-chemical reactions in my body will cause me to do certain things – speak, write etc.

Rote. You parrot an ideology you were taught and little else. Your "electro-chemical" processes have a purpose that they were "designed" for. You may or may not undersatnd that someday. I have little desire to let you have authority while you are in the mental state you are in, unless you understand the limits that your faith-based belief system has on others that reject it. We can get along "if" you'll be nice. Otherwise, we'll have to use democracy for what it was designed for. Ohhhh, but I know Marx was an atheist and why. That "democracy" thing. Kind of spoils the authoritarian/totalitarianism that is what atheim is. History and all proving my point.

Any action that affects another, even if only for a moment, will, for that period of time, be important to that person as it causes a reaction in them too – wether its just averting their attention away or angrily responding to a post I’ve made on Christian forums You were free to be duped into believing the Bible.

Not one sting in your words. All I see is "A blue duck is happy to not be a rock." A duck has no thoughts about rocks or being a duck. You cannot prove atheism and yet, creation is as easy is touching your palm with the other hand. Darwinism and and chaos to order, is stupidity, and morew and more people are choosing to think freely and reject atheism, not by persecuting the poor down-trodden atheists, but by using logic and reason to reject atheism. If that makes you sad, go spend time with atheist friends and be happy there.

WELL, PART THREE IN YET ANOTHER POST:

 

[Polycarp_fan]

PART THREE

Likewise, you are still free to think for yourself if you put the Bible down and find your own meaning in life. True. I was bitterly disappointed by the first part of the God Delusion (I&#8217;m still reading it now).

Well, how Christian of you to allow me to think freely. Very Gospel-like your niceness. The God delusion is a delusion. Logically you can reject Jesus as God, but accepting that 0 x 0 equals the seen and unseen universe is just not smart. I looked up the theory of the square root of one, I wouldn't do that if I were you and wanted to stay in your club Atheism. They don't admire dissent there.

Mind you, Dawkins could learn a lot from Benny Hinn et al if he really wants to make mega-money.

BS pal. Dawkins learned from Marilyn Manson and so many other anti-Christians, (especialy in the music scene) that if you want fame and fortune attack Christians. Dawkins is a laughable fellow that knows he wanted more money than his school job payed. He knew the quick route to take to both. He's as pitiful and Hinn and and Manson.

Or, Dawkins could claim nature was going to kill him if we didn&#8217;t prop up a business venture a.k.a Oral Roberts Christianity is the cheapest way out of them all &#8211; resting back on the works of a handful of men, written over hundreds of years apart and largely unaltered since 300/400 AD.

Look at what you believe pal!!!!???? Atheists ahve forged a never ending job for themselves in the education sysetm. And dishonestly so. Roberst and his kind, at least tell you what to expect when you go to there schools. Atheists hide behind lies and deception. C'mon man open your eyes, You are not that young.

It&#8217;s Freethought and freethinking that has answered, or attempted to answer, many of the &#8216;great questions&#8217; in life.

Duh, (in its scholarly application. Free thinking leads to God. Even the calculator proves that. Atheism is a ignorsance based faith based belief system. Some grand thoughts, but nothing new or exciting. Just little kids whining for the most part that never grew up.

Think Einstein, Freud etc The tables can be turned too.

Both jewish guys. Einstein was too smart for atheism. He was mora a deist than insane. Frued? How could this guy not get sick with all the sick people he was around. "Cause and effect" is a sceintific way to reason things out. Atheism has no cause or effect. Except in genocide and totalitarianism. Come on pal, "reason" things out.

I&#8217;ve seen many a debate with Christians using the Bible to substantiate claims,

Silly Christians, science, and logic and reason are just as good as proving God. The Bible is just a recording of some happenings of people that lived on earth. One of them of Course being God living on earth for awhile. Nothing unreasonable about that. Science is no enemy of the Bible. In fact far more the opposite. Especially in moral and ethical questions. But science is not leading us away from God. Just the opposite.

. . . when it is the authority of the Bible (and all that stems from it i.e. God, JC, etc) that is at the root of the debate I know that I will die one day.

The Bible is a good history book. But, science, reason and logic are quite capable of proving the existence of God. Far better in many respects. You believe to much propaganda. Typical of the atheist position on things. "Think" for yourself, and you will find that Christians are not the idiots you are being told they are. When you finish with teh God Delusion, read Mere Christianity by Lewis. But, believe me, that will force you to think, and freely so, so be ready.

I predict that it will be the way I think it will and that, as my brain dies, I won&#8217;t even by conscious of my demise.

Boy I like that. Though, I have unfortuantely, witnessed a person dying (car accident) and they were not happy about it at all. They were very conscious of the fact of what was happeing.

And the Christian I saw die, went very peacefully.

I do not lean on a book for hope that there will be (as yet unproved) everlasting life on the &#8216;other side&#8217;.

This is where "you atheists" desire to fill us full of bull. You believe in "a book" every bit as tenaciously as do religion peddlers. You have many doctrinal books even. Makes Mormonism look quite tame in comparison.

Oh, "by the way," Darwin had people "before him," writing about evolution. He borrowed from their ideas. Mmm hmm.

Sure, it would make me feel good to believe in that little idea but I think I&#8217;ll stick to Science, Logic & reason It&#8217;s also very enjoyable for freethinkers such as myself to see the world, slowly but surely, seeing Christianity as a joke.

Your world. Your pat-each-other-on-the-back world. It's large and proud but nothing close to original or special. History-wise that is. You have fun ignoring the facts and live a long and healthy life. But, you are not being honest about enjoying the debate between Christians and nongodians. You atheists are too shrill and angry for that to stick.

But, unlike you, I see Christianity as a threat. There is a sex workers section on here. Maybe you can put that question to them. I believe they have a right to think what they choose, I just find it a great shame that they have decided to use that right to be duped. Humanism does not necessarily equate with all &#8216;versions&#8217; of Atheism. Sure, Humanists don&#8217;t believe in a God but neither do Buddhists and all three of the aforementioned beliefs have vastly different views on certain things. Quoting the Humanist manifesto at me is like me using the Mormon Bible against you. Not to outlaw opposition, but encourage others to think for themselves i.e. don&#8217;t be duped into believing the Bible.

Well just a tiny bit of truth with all of your other spin. You can use Mormonsim towards a Christian if the shoe fits. Please do when appropriate. At least Mormons are not ignorant of the fact that something does not come from nothing. Looking at that Mormon guy on Jeopardy winning for many, many weeks in a row, I would rather debate a Mormon than a nongodian. There is logic and reason to other religions, but only nonsense (in the literal concept of the word) in the non-godian position.

But, "Humanism" is your religion with no doubts about that. Your hostility towards Christians is the truth and it doesn't take long to ferret that out of an atheist. It is not my fault that Humanism is joke for the most part. Egotists all patting each other on the backs, giving each other awards for being so great to each other.

Hmm, who does that sound like?

I'll stick with the humble, contrite and reasonable people. I have weighed the evidence and found atheism wanting (that's an old word for lacking).

 

[1j9r8w9]

Pure egotism. I know what an atheist is. A self-made man allows worships his creator. That has proven far to deadly for mankind.

??

Hundreds of millions of people have been literaly burned by atheists.

More than by the Spanish Inquisition?

I fight back. That is why I reject some of atheism's insanity and lean on logic and reason to reject the notion that everything happened by another accident. I cannot choose stupidity (anymore).

But in choosing to follow 2000+ year old teachings, I’m afraid you have.

It's as close to perfect a rational belief system as there has ever been. It makkes too much sense in the rational world.

It’s the fact that in this rational world the Bible is so out of place that makes me struggle to see your point

truth is truth.

Even if that ‘truth’ came from an Atheist/Non-Christian? Think Egyptian wisdom and Moses

Decided by the facts, atheism is devoid of logic and reason. It's just nonsense for stuffy old guys to talk about……….. As you so correctly "observe" Christians are indeed smart people. We can't not be.

You cannot seriously mean what you just said? Please visit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religiosity_and_intelligence#Studies_comparing_religious_belief_and_I.Q. for proof that, on average, people devoid of Religion tend to have Higher IQs than people who consider Religion (including Christianity) as important. Are you saying that highly intelligent people are devoid of logic and reason? Are you saying people like Einstein and Freud were just ‘stuffy old guys’?

Yes, at the heart of atheism is the outlawing of free thinking. It is what it is.

It is the polar opposite. Freethinking promotes and encourages choice, it just gets frustrated at people using that free choice to be duped.

We Christians know what you are and what you are up to. Hope you want to build a lot of prisons.

If I were in power I would imprison you if you continued to spread your poisonous message. If you kept yourself to yourself, you’d be free.

And seeing that Christians are the most important tax base, you atheists will be bankrupt "financially" too.

They may be the case in the US, but in the UK 2 out of 3 of us have no Religious adherence (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article3412118.ece) . All the American Atheists could just come and live in the UK. Things would be tight with a shrinking in GDP but we could save money by doing an ‘Atheist Inquisition’ or by making reading of the God Delusion compulsory.

You atheists have idols, prophets, priests and and kings. Get a grip on reality huh? You also have your doomsday scenario pushing your beleif-sytem. To your worldview the sky literall is falling. Your priests see the signs.

What are you on about? If you could give me a list of my supposed idols, prophets, priests and kings I’d be happy to tear it to pieces for you.

You parrot what your teachers teach you. So much for "free thinking" huh. The similarity of religions makes atheism a religion. Warnings from your prophets and priests and all. Smell the coffee pal.

Again, what is this? All my ideas in this post came from within. Sure, they might co-incide with other peoples views but that’s bound to happen in a world full of 6,000,000,000 people. Don’t get my started on parroting what I’m taught….

Paul was nicer about non-godians than I am. But Paul was a smart guy and knew the nonsense of atheism well.

No, he felt the threat that Freethinking posed was great and so he used fire and brimstone type passages to attract followers (see earlier quote on Religion and IQ).

Not many great philosphers were atheists. I doubt even one of them was. Your prophets in insane asylums and dead having lived a life of pure egtism. What a wasted endeavor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Atheist_philosophers there’s 66 there for you to have a look at. I haven’t been able to check all of them out but I don’t think many ended up in Insane asylums.

Atheism is un "reason" able. Do the math. Atheism is dying faster than TV evangelism.

I’d have to look into that further re growth rates. All I know is religious attendance is a lot lower in the UK now (http://www.tearfund.org/webdocs/Website/News/Final churchgoing report.pdf) than it was 100 years ago. Of course, that doesn’t mean Atheism has increased, just that people are moving more towards it.

The smell of nonsense is like you-know-what, on a person's shoe. But trust me, we love you. If you truly desire to think freely, you will become a Christian. If you freely believe in logic and reason. You atheists can't bully us anymore and you are even more angry at that. You look silly more often than not now. We're just not scared anymore. Your mask is off, and you are just angry people wanting answers you are too lazy to look for. Nothing noble in atheism really. It's the "ultimate" cop-out. We walk away from your debates sad for you. The anger and bitterness is history.

Lolz your views are getting amusing. How many time must I say this, Christianity is not freedom. Sure, you freely made the choice to get duped, and you use the Bible to take a holier-than-thou stance (literally) with God ‘on your side’.

OK. As you go through life, that will change. Unless of course you stick eith your limited view of all things. Atheism is nonsense in the literal use of that word. What I have seen and experinced, without a Bible anywhere near me most of the time, led me away from the idiocy of atheism. It literally makes no sense.

I’m not stupid enough to say ill never go back to Christianity but I find it highly improbable. I may have given up on God, but I got my life back.

You have your opinionn based on what there? When things are going great, people still do nasty things. Why is that I wonder? Science proves the congenital sin condition of man. Even atheist men.

I was a church-going, Bible-believing ‘born again’ Christian when I did Grand Theft Auto (the real deal, not some cheap imitation Game). It was sort of like those nonces who still ask for Gods forgiveness despite abusing people under their care (God obvs wasn’t powerful enough to stop them doing it in the first place). I like how you use Science to prove man has ‘sin’ yet you completely reject it when it indicates your God is false.

Childrrn in a playground will show the toughest kids getting the toys and snacks by force over the less agreesive ones. Very Darwinian UNTIL< the weaker ones protest.

No, that is Darwinian in the sense that the ‘weaker’ children adapted to the situation, became stronger and then began to protest. Following on from that I bet those ‘weaker’ kids might even go on to become stronger than their tormentors.

Then God enters the nature of human beings as a matter of fact.

‘God’ was with me when I did GTA. He was with me when I shoplifted. I get rid of God, and suddenly I become a better, law-abiding person.

You need to open your eyes to fact-based belief systems, not the wishful thinking mythology of atheism.

don’t you mean the wishful thinking mythology of Christianity?

Well, how Christian of you to allow me to think freely. Very Gospel-like your niceness. The God delusion is a delusion. Logically you can reject Jesus as God, but accepting that 0 x 0 equals the seen and unseen universe is just not smart. I looked up the theory of the square root of one, I wouldn't do that if I were you and wanted to stay in your club Atheism. They don't admire dissent there.

??? What’s that got to do with non-belief in God?

Look at what you believe pal!!!!???? Atheists ahve forged a never ending job for themselves in the education sysetm. And dishonestly so. Roberst and his kind, at least tell you what to expect when you go to there schools. Atheists hide behind lies and deception. C'mon man open your eyes, You are not that young.

??? What is this about? 30% of UK schools are Christian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_United_Kingdom#Religion_and_education) and thanks to our Education Act 1944 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_Act_1944) Prayer or religious worship of a broad Christian view was made compulsory, with a few get-out clauses for Jewish and Muslim schools (brought in by Education Reform Act 1988). In our Education system it’s Atheists in the minority. How, then, are they free to poison schools with their ‘deception and lies’. More importantly, what deception and lies are you referring to?

Duh, (in its scholarly application. Free thinking leads to God. Even the calculator proves that. Atheism is a ignorsance based faith based belief system. Some grand thoughts, but nothing new or exciting. Just little kids whining for the most part that never grew up.

??? This shows such an ignorant, naïve view of Atheism. Freethinking leads to the polar opposite of God. What does a calculator prove? Are you insinuating that some of the greatest thinkers and scientists of our time (and in History) were just ignorant, stupid and incapable of thinking for themselves?

Both jewish guys. Einstein was too smart for atheism. He was mora a deist than insane.

Einstein was an ethnic Jew. Granted he was most likely Agnostic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einstein#Religious_views) but any views on a God were vastly different to yours (http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/quotes_einstein.html)

Atheism has no cause or effect. Except in genocide and totalitarianism. Come on pal, "reason" things out.

Atheism has a cause – Christians. It has an effect – scientific and social advancement. Christianity has a cause – a need to be in control. Christianity has an effect – Crusades, Inquisitions, Hypocrisy et al.

Silly Christians, science, and logic and reason are just as good as proving God.

And SL&R are just as good at disproving him too. Vicious circle.

You believe to much propaganda. Typical of the atheist position on things. "Think" for yourself, and you will find that Christians are not the idiots you are being told they are.

. I don’t think you’re idiots, but I think you’re ignorant for allowing yourself to fall for lies.

Boy I like that. Though, I have unfortuantely, witnessed a person dying (car accident) and they were not happy about it at all. They were very conscious of the fact of what was happeing. And the Christian I saw die, went very peacefully.

Anyone who had a slow, agonising death would naturally not be happy. My views are based on instant death. It’s just like we are not conscious of falling asleep – it just happens. It’s the same with Death except we never wake up.

This is where "you atheists" desire to fill us full of bull. You believe in "a book" every bit as tenaciously as do religion peddlers. You have many doctrinal books even. Makes Mormonism look quite tame in comparison.

Give me a list of these books that are my supposed ‘Doctrine’ and I’ll let you know what rubbish you’re talking here. Just because you agree with what someone has written and refer to that book doesn’t mean its suddenly like a Bible.

Your world. Your pat-each-other-on-the-back world. It's large and proud but nothing close to original or special. History-wise that is. You have fun ignoring the facts and live a long and healthy life. But, you are not being honest about enjoying the debate between Christians and nongodians. You atheists are too shrill and angry for that to stick.

I enjoy the challenge posed by replying to comments such as yours. I’m not angry at you, just getting more and more amused.

Well just a tiny bit of truth with all of your other spin. You can use Mormonsim towards a Christian if the shoe fits. Please do when appropriate. At least Mormons are not ignorant of the fact that something does not come from nothing. Looking at that Mormon guy on Jeopardy winning for many, many weeks in a row, I would rather debate a Mormon than a nongodian. There is logic and reason to other religions, but only nonsense (in the literal concept of the word) in the non-godian position.

??? Where do you come up with this stuff? Ok, so say I became a Deist and believed that God made everything then went off and let us go our own way. It’s belief in God, but it still rejects Christianity. Would you rather debate me then? Speaking of Logic, think about this:

Can an omniscient God who knows the future, find; the omnipotence to change his future mind?

But, "Humanism" is your religion with no doubts about that.

Yes, there is doubt. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanism#Religion . granted, Atheism and Humanism are similar (and can be compatable) but they are two different viewpoints. Humanism is an all-encompassing view (closer to the definition of Freethinking than Atheism). Atheism on its own is just a rejection of God full stop. There is no other element to it (like there is in Humanism).

I'll stick with the humble, contrite and reasonable people. I have weighed the evidence and found atheism wanting (that's an old word for lacking).

I weighed the evidence and, with my little IQ of 135, found Christianity wanting, seriously wanting.

 

[Bryan519]

(sigh) You know, the sad part is that I can actually understand the Atheisitic point of view. It's much more rational and logical than that of relativism, however atheists never cease to amaze me with their unabashed arrogance. I would respect allot more of you if it weren't for that glaring vice.

After hours I'm a paranormal investigator (yes, go ahead and roll your eyes), and I find it interesting that nobody in this field is purely atheistic. Why? because there is evidence of the supernatural if one seeks it. But it's much easier to sit back in your comfy chair behind the keyboard and engage in some circular debate that niether side can win. That way you can continue to inflate your already self-induced ego to megalomaniacal proportions.

 

[Polycarp_fan]

(sigh) You know, the sad part is that I can actually understand the Atheisitic point of view. It's much more rational and logical than that of relativism, however atheists never cease to amaze me with their unabashed arrogance. I would respect allot more of you if it weren't for that glaring vice.

After hours I'm a paranormal investigator (yes, go ahead and roll your eyes), and I find it interesting that nobody in this field is purely atheistic. Why? because there is evidence of the supernatural if one seeks it. But it's much easier to sit back in your comfy chair behind the keyboard and engage in some circular debate that niether side can win. That way you can continue to inflate your already self-induced ego to megalomaniacal proportions.

Well said.

I like facts.

That is why I became a Christian.

 

[Polycarp_fan]

?? More than by the Spanish Inquisition?

PLEASE . . . compare the numbers of people killed in the "Spanish" Inquisition, to those killed by Lenin, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao and of course STILL being killed and tortured today in Communist (atheist) China. PLEASE????

But in choosing to follow 2000+ year old teachings, I’m afraid you have.It’s the fact that in this rational world the Bible is so out of place that makes me struggle to see your point Even if that ‘truth’ came from an Atheist/Non-Christian?

You need to get a grip on reality. Christian history is "real" history. Not like the hypotheses and theories of the evolutionary/nongodians. Doesn't it make you laugh when Discovery channel presents what some dinosaur "did" millions of years ago? How they hunted, how they mated, how they "lived?" It's make believe pal!It's conjecture at best.

Roman controlled Judea was ONLY 2000 years ago. Hello?

Think Egyptian wisdom and MosesYou cannot seriously mean what you just said?

Many religions are similar in ideology. Christianity "happened" in time and space. It wasn't written about "as a religion," but as a happening. Do some research huh? Think man, think for yourself.

Please visit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religiosity_and_intelligence#Studies_comparing_religious_belief_and_I.Q. for proof that, on average, people devoid of Religion tend to have Higher IQs than people who consider Religion (including Christianity) as important.

What ryhmes with pull zit? Educated elites invent "smart bombs." How [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth]' stupid is that?

Are you saying that highly intelligent people are devoid of logic and reason?

I am saying that yes. In many cases yes. This is where "duh" takes on the scholarly. How many serial killers are really, really, smart people? You like comparisons huh?

Are you saying people like Einstein and Freud were just ‘stuffy old guys’? It is the polar opposite.

You think C.S. Lewis, (to name just one guy that went from atheist to Christian) was a dummy? I'll put up Christian minds up againts nut jobs like Frued all day long. I wonder why you didn't offer up Nietzsche? Real smart guy he was. And Marx? Bright as hell. Now let's go back to comparing bad things that people do "in the name of," shall we?

Freethinking promotes and encourages choice, it just gets frustrated at people using that free choice to be duped.

You believe that EVERYTHING came from nothing. Started by accident and moved along by accidents bumping into other accidents. And you posit that Christians are not smart?

If I were in power I would imprison you if you continued to spread your poisonous message. If you kept yourself to yourself, you’d be free.

The poisonous message and politics of atheism has done exactly as you desire. Atheists have proven to be the deadliest people the world has ever known. And as can be seen by your absolutely inappropriate reply, are always angry. Guess "free thinking" comes at a high cost. As in jettisoning a conscience. But believe me, I think sociopathy and atheism are one and the same. Literally.

They may be the case in the US, but in the UK 2 out of 3 of us have no Religious adherence (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article3412118.ece) .

Umm, are you under the impression that that comes as surprise to we Christians? Your state church was started to support an adulterer, and a murderous adulterer at that. BTW, have you ever seperated wheat from the chaff? I have. Lot's of plant and little bits of food.

All the American Atheists could just come and live in the UK. Things would be tight with a shrinking in GDP but we could save money by doing an ‘Atheist Inquisition’ or by making reading of the God Delusion compulsory.

Oh please. Do you know how good we Christians are at raising money for a good cause? I can't think of a better one at this very moment. The God Delusion, another doctrinal work of Atheism.

You are fun I'll say that.

PART TWO NEXT POST:

 

[Polycarp_fan]

PART TWO:

[quote}What are you on about? If you could give me a list of my supposed idols, prophets, priests and kings I&#8217;d be happy to tear it to pieces for you.Again, what is this?[/quote]

Start with Nietzsche and go to well, Dawkins!!! Darwin of course being the atheist's messiah. But he only borrowed his ideas from earlier evolutionists. Tisk, tisk.

All my ideas in this post came from within.

I've bought a used car before. Too bad you really do think Christians are stupid. How laughable. Your rote is also dogma.

Sure, they might co-incide with other peoples views but that&#8217;s bound to happen in a world full of 6,000,000,000 people.

And yet, you slam Moses for sounding like Egyptian views. You're new at this debate thing huh?

Don&#8217;t get my started on parroting what I&#8217;m taught&#8230;.

Polly wants a "why are babies born blind if God is good?" All you have in atheism is parroting. Same ol' same ol' millenia after millenia. You are as original as Adam claiming "You gave me the chick?" Atheism goes back a long way.

. . .he felt the threat that Freethinking posed was great and so he used fire and brimstone type passages to attract followers (see earlier quote on Religion and IQ).

And love and reason. You left those parts out. Hell is reality. Ask a girl not asked to the Prom?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Atheist_philosophers there&#8217;s 66 there for you to have a look at.

So we can dispense of the you think for yourself assertion? You sure post a lot of links. And the wikipedia links are goofy. You should at least do the "skeptics" deal. They got so many scary rebuts for we Christians.

I haven&#8217;t been able to check all of them out but I don&#8217;t think many ended up in Insane asylums.

I'm sorry? Huh? Which one was it (atheist) that was famous for saying "God id dead?" I believe that guy died, in an insane asylum. I have worked with the mentally ill for almost 25-years. So many nongodians in the ranks, I have no fear of religious nuts at all.

I&#8217;d have to look into that further re growth rates. All I know is religious attendance is a lot lower in the UK now (http://www.tearfund.org/webdocs/Website/News/Final%20churchgoing%20report.pdf) than it was 100 years ago. Of course, that doesn&#8217;t mean Atheism has increased, just that people are moving more towards it.

rather, it means that people are getting sick of the liars and perverts saying they are Christians. I will tell you this, give me an honest Atheist over a scripture altering religious peddler any day. My kids are sfae with the atheist. As long as keep them searching for the truth with facts.

Lolz your views are getting amusing. How many time must I say this, Christianity is not freedom.

Rote. Like I say, rote. The atheist and his mantra. You sound more "religious" than I do. But then again, I am a Christian. We don;t really like religion. Too confining.

Sure, you freely made the choice to get duped, and you use the Bible to take a holier-than-thou stance (literally) with God &#8216;on your side&#8217;.

Umm, have you ever heard Dawkins speak? Or Hitchens? Or Harris? Talk about superiority complex. Like I said sociopathy. Many of the greatest killers in history were really intelligent and really atheist.

I&#8217;m not stupid enough to say ill never go back to Christianity but I find it highly improbable.

Sorry to enlighten you pal, but if you hang only with atheists and Humanists, it will take a miracle to get you thinking with your own mind. They will not allow dissent. And you want friends more than free thought. But, I will still hold out hope that your mind is not seared to badly. "Probability" wise.

I may have given up on God, but I got my life back. I was a church-going, Bible-believing &#8216;born again&#8217; Christian when I did Grand Theft Auto (the real deal, not some cheap imitation Game).

That's it????????? A real hero from the Bible kills, lies and fornicates. You sound to soft. But, you sound like a good guy for once. I've done worse things than "just" GTA. Jesus isn't disproved as God because I am a bad person that has done bad things. "Probability" wise that is.

It was sort of like those nonces who still ask for Gods forgiveness despite abusing people under their care (God obvs wasn&#8217;t powerful enough to stop them doing it in the first place).

This is the scariest place to walk with an Atheist. You always want the same totalitarianism that you desire, in God.

Why the Puppet Master God with you atheists? I thought you said you were a "free" thinker. Hey man, that, is very God like. The "God will make me do things," now that is scary. I want true freedom. That is what Jesus promises, and delivers on.

I like how you use Science to prove man has &#8216;sin&#8217; yet you completely reject it when it indicates your God is false.

Science has proven original sin. It's a done deal. People are "born" with many propensities for doing bad things. You never see people "born" with an undying love for love. You leave a person to their own desires, and it will "probably" show you original sin. Remember the kids in the playground? Not many sweeties.

No, that is Darwinian in the sense that the &#8216;weaker&#8217; children adapted to the situation, became stronger and then began to protest.

Gazelles don't protest against Lions. Darwinism is a joke you have been duped into believing in. We Christians choose reality over a tall tale.

Following on from that I bet those &#8216;weaker&#8217; kids might even go on to become stronger than their tormentors.

You mean like geek atheists inventing smart bombs and so many other weapons of mass destruction? I'll bet MIT has lot's of brilliant atheists working away on future weapons designs. In fact I'll bet on that.

&#8216;God&#8217; was with me when I did GTA. He was with me when I shoplifted. I get rid of God, and suddenly I become a better, law-abiding person.

You fear prison. Like i said, Christians believe in reality. "God," didn't make you do anything. "God" believes in free thinkers believing in Him.

don&#8217;t you mean the wishful thinking mythology of Christianity????

Sorry pal, you atheists believe that mud became life all by itself. That is not just mythology, it is insanity you ignore. Hey, knock yourselves out.

What&#8217;s that got to do with non-belief in God???? What is this about? 30% of UK schools are Christian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_United_Kingdom#Religion_and_education) and thanks to our Education Act 1944 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_Act_1944)

Linking wikipedia is rather goofy. Not everyone that claims to be a Christian is. We're back to the free thinking of Christians again. It started with Christ Jesus (God).

Prayer or religious worship of a broad Christian view was made compulsory, with a few get-out clauses for Jewish and Muslim schools (brought in by Education Reform Act 1988).

Are you under the impression that I support a state religion? I don't want to be a Muslim anymore than I do an atheist. It's all about free thinking for we Christians. Forcing people to be Christians is going against what Jesus said. You know that right? Don't blame Jesus for liars in the Church.

In our Education system it&#8217;s Atheists in the minority. How, then, are they free to poison schools with their &#8216;deception and lies&#8217;.

You're joking right? You have literally presented Dawkins as a support for your freely chosen choices.

More importantly, what deception and lies are you referring to? ??? This shows such an ignorant, naïve view of Atheism.

Oh really? So 0 x 0 can equal the universe existing? How pray tell?

Freethinking leads to the polar opposite of God.

You do realize that "I" and millions of other Christians disprove your hypothesis? "Freethinking" the Club, leads to bobbleheadism. All of you parrot the party line.

What does a calculator prove? Are you insinuating that some of the greatest thinkers and scientists of our time (and in History) were just ignorant, stupid and incapable of thinking for themselves?

Yes.

Cause and effect.

It's a scientific method for proving things.

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