polycarp_fan said:
PLEASE . . . compare the numbers of people killed in the "Spanish" Inquisition, to those killed by Lenin, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao and of course STILL being killed and tortured today in Communist (atheist) China. PLEASE????
Of course, the numbers are different. What Im trying to highlight here is that the Atheists didnt tow the line that it was Gods will they were evil men and they didnt need to use an imaginary being to back up what they did. The only difference between Atheistic and Christian tyranny is that one uses God to justify violence.
You need to get a grip on reality. Christian history is "real" history.
Ill need to look into the Historical Accuracy of the Bible and Jesus to be able to comment on that. From what Ive read so far, there is significant enough doubt to warrant further study.
Many religions are similar in ideology.
Youre proving my point Christianity (and Judaism) was just a copy of earlier beliefs, with other beliefs added where people thought they made sense. It wasnt from divine inspiration, it was a mere copy.
What ryhmes with pull zit? Educated elites invent "smart bombs." How [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth]' stupid is that?
I knew a Christian at Church who designed electronics for missiles to ensure they hit with maximum effect. Does that make him evil? Or would it only be evil if it were an Atheist doing the work?
I am saying that yes. In many cases yes. This is where "duh" takes on the scholarly. How many serial killers are really, really, smart people? You like comparisons huh?
Peter Sutcliffe told the jury that he killed hookers because God told him to. Serial Killers are clever people (for the most part) not just any old tom, dick or harry can go on a murderous rampage for several years without being caught. I dont know what thats got to do with non-religious people having higher IQs though. One point I find laughable is that you call Christians smarter than some of the greatest minds of our time. If you can give me a list of inventions or institutions formed solely (or by a majority) by Christians then Id be happy to change my tune.
You think C.S. Lewis, (to name just one guy that went from atheist to Christian) was a dummy?
he wasnt a dummy but he was duped.
I'll put up Christian minds up againts nut jobs like Frued all day long.
give me a list of great Christian thinkers and doers (see earlier comments) and Id be happy to alter my views. In my view, writing a book about kids and a cupboard doesnt compare with advanced scientific theories. OK, maybe it does if youre a Christian.
I wonder why you didn't offer up Nietzsche? Real smart guy he was. And Marx? Bright as hell. Now let's go back to comparing bad things that people do "in the name of," shall we?
I didnt think of them. Like Christianity, they had good ideas but one too many rotten apples.
You believe that EVERYTHING came from nothing. Started by accident and moved along by accidents bumping into other accidents. And you posit that Christians are not smart?
No. Personally I believe that the Universe is constantly contracting and expanding (what goes up, must come down etc). I believe the big bang started when a prior universe collapsed in on itself, having run out of energy from its own big bang. When it couldnt collapse any more, all the energy exploded and another big bang started. I believe this has happened infinitely and will happen forever. I believe that our Universe is one out of infinity, with each and every universe contracting and exploding. Time is a concept invented by man to put order in our lives. I believe the Universe has no knowledge of time and has been in its cyclical state forever. Of course I could believe that a God who came from nothing made everything out of nothing, as if by magic. So youre allowed to believe that and Im not?
The poisonous message and politics of atheism has done exactly as you desire. Atheists have proven to be the deadliest people the world has ever known. And as can be seen by your absolutely inappropriate reply, are always angry. Guess "free thinking" comes at a high cost. As in jettisoning a conscience. But believe me, I think sociopathy and atheism are one and the same. Literally.
In the US, arent 70% supposedly Christians? If thats the case, why are they the worlds biggest Consumer of narcotics by value? Does that not tell you the damage that a God-entrenched society can do? If people were allowed to think Freely in the first place there would be no need to escape. On the sociopathy front I find your opinions so amusing they barely warranted a serious rebuttal. Let me get this straight, someone is allowed to believe that 2000 years ago a Jew was born from a virgin, was crucified for sins (proscribed in his absent fathers own book) and rose again from the dead, only to appear to a few and fly off into heaven. Also, I regularly speak to him even though I cant see him and I also enjoy having conversations with his equally hard-to-see father. I also hold to heart his teachings even though no original copy survives and most of them were written years, if not decades after his death. And you call Atheists mentally ill?
Hmm, are you under the impression that that comes as surprise to we Christians? Your state church was started to support an adulterer, and a murderous adulterer at that. BTW, have you ever seperated wheat from the chaff? I have. Lot's of plant and little bits of food.
The reports and findings are based on the Church as a whole in the UK. Sure, you play the whole adulterer card but people still continue to follow what it teaches (as it gets most of its stuff from the Bible). It all gets back to the state of the fruit determining how rotten and outdated the tree is.
Do you know how good we Christians are at raising money for a good cause?
Granted, you do a lot for Charity. But so do Atheists and other Religions. I myself am walking 200 miles in one go (across 14 days) for an Armed Forces charity and a Child abuse prevention society. Naturally, I cant say that God is on my side but Im still doing good by helping out my fellow human beings. It would be interesting if someone did a study on Religion and Charity with a focus on who made the most money. Im presuming it would be Christians as pastors would invoke giving by teaching on tithing and not robbing God of what he gave you (yes, God gives you your wage, not the Customers who by products or services from your employers business).
I can't think of a better one at this very moment. The God Delusion, another doctrinal work of Atheism.
LOL that is just crazy. In reading The God Delusion it just affirms what I already thought anyway.
Polly wants a "why are babies born blind if God is good?" All you have in atheism is parroting. Same ol' same ol' millenia after millenia. You are as original as Adam claiming "You gave me the chick?" Atheism goes back a long way.
why do Christians always go to the blind babies argument? Babies are blind because of biological issues, Ive accepted that. What I cant accept though is how a God of love would allow Satan to do that to someone. Its not as if they chose free will to become blind
So we can dispense of the you think for yourself assertion? You sure post a lot of links. And the wikipedia links are goofy. You should at least do the "skeptics" deal. They got so many scary rebuts for we Christians.
the info on Wikipedia is itself cross-referenced. If you want to challenge any points on there in particular, please feel free to do so.
I'm sorry? Huh? Which one was it (atheist) that was famous for saying "God id dead?" I believe that guy died, in an insane asylum.
I dont know. If you find his name Ill look into it. You looked at any of those 66 yet?
I have worked with the mentally ill for almost 25-years. So many nongodians in the ranks, I have no fear of religious nuts at all.
If thats the case and you see Sociopathy and mental illness all the tome why, then, do you have the gall to lable 150,000,000 worldwide as mentally ill. Not forgetting that in that number ranks scientists, thinkers, academics, businessmen and all manner of people who will play critical roles in society. Please see my earlier comment on the mentally ill person I came across who believed in that Jewish guy that came back to life and talks to him now
rather, it means that people are getting sick of the liars and perverts saying they are Christians. I will tell you this, give me an honest Atheist over a scripture altering religious peddler any day. My kids are sfae with the atheist. As long as keep them searching for the truth with facts.
So us Sociopathic atheists are ok to look after your kids but your fellow Christians arent? Why is that I wonder? Rotten fruit and trees spring to mind.
Rote. Like I say, rote. The atheist and his mantra. You sound more "religious" than I do. But then again, I am a Christian. We don;t really like religion. Too confining.
So basing your entire worldview and life on 2000+ year old teachings isnt confining?
Umm, have you ever heard Dawkins speak? Or Hitchens? Or Harris? Talk about superiority complex. Like I said sociopathy. Many of the greatest killers in history were really intelligent and really atheist.
And lots of killers claimed God told them to do it, some even went to Church and held positions of Authority. I remember watching a police sting video of a pastor hiring a hitman to kill a love rival. Nice way of preaching Gods love there.
Sorry to enlighten you pal, but if you hang only with atheists and Humanists, it will take a miracle to get you thinking with your own mind. They will not allow dissent.
The majority of people I hang with are either Christian, Agnostic or undefined through ignorance/lack of thought. I have one or two Atheist mates at most.
And you want friends more than free thought. But, I will still hold out hope that your mind is not seared to badly. "Probability" wise.
Friends come and go its my freethinking that I hold dearest. My mind was seared deeply by the messages my Church indoctrinated me with since I was a kid. I wouldnt say it ruined my life but my childhood wasnt happy.
That's it????????? A real hero from the Bible kills, lies and fornicates. You sound to soft. But, you sound like a good guy for once.
Crime isnt heroic. But I agree with your biblical hero model. The only thing is I got my judgement in a court of law and got no forgiveness from an imaginary man who I hadnt committed a crime against.
I've done worse things than "just" GTA. Jesus isn't disproved as God because I am a bad person that has done bad things. "Probability" wise that is.
This just proves my point. Christianity is used as a back-burner for ex-cons to make themselves feel good, feel as if all their past wrongs have been absolved and that God loves them and even their victims. Heck, they might even see each other again in Heaven and have a drink, laughing at the irony.
This is the scariest place to walk with an Atheist. You always want the same totalitarianism that you desire, in God.
So we can sit your Kids but were scary people? I dont desire the totalitarianism that Christianity seems to invoke (i.e. that we should all bow down to God or hell send non-believers to hell)
I want true freedom. That is what Jesus promises, and delivers on.
. Please, give me some reasons as to why you feel Christianity is freedom.
Science has proven original sin. It's a done deal. People are "born" with many propensities for doing bad things. You never see people "born" with an undying love for love. You leave a person to their own desires, and it will "probably" show you original sin. Remember the kids in the playground? Not many sweeties.
That doesnt prove original sin it proves that people are inherently bad. It proves that biology in criminals is similar. It proves that your poor black working class male is more likely (due to the socioeconomic circumstances he is more likely to find himself in) to shoot another one of his demographic group. It does nothing to prove a story of a tree, snake, fruit and naked woman (please see earlier points on Mental Illness).
Gazelles don't protest against Lions. Darwinism is a joke you have been duped into believing in. We Christians choose reality over a tall tale.
Not yet. We havent been alive long enough and we wont live long enough to see how Gazelles evolved to take on their prey. Think Venus Fly Traps (an animal comes for a munch and then the plant eats its would be predator).
You mean like geek atheists inventing smart bombs and so many other weapons of mass destruction? I'll bet MIT has lot's of brilliant atheists working away on future weapons designs. In fact I'll bet on that.
and I bet those same evil Atheists are using technologies that some of their Christian co-workers came up with.
You fear prison. Like i said, Christians believe in reality. "God," didn't make you do anything. "God" believes in free thinkers believing in Him.
I dont fear Prison. I fear the fact that it would be too big of a diversion in my life. Youre right, God didnt make me or any of my fellow crims do anything. He also didnt make the victims do anyting either. He did, however, see it as ok to let it happen.
Sorry pal, you atheists believe that mud became life all by itself. That is not just mythology, it is insanity you ignore. Hey, knock yourselves out.
No, I dont believe mud just magiced its way here just like that (Im not a Christian). I believe it was the result of a series of chemical reactions over thousands of millions of years. Myths, insanity and ignorance can be found in the story of a 6 day creation that made earth just suddenly appear. It can also be found in the ensuing books that followed.
Linking wikipedia is rather goofy.
See earlier note on Wiki. If you want to disprove any of my links, feel free to do so
Not everyone that claims to be a Christian is. We're back to the free thinking of Christians again. It started with Christ Jesus (God).
If that is the case, then why do they call themselves Christians? Judging by what Ive seen on this site, there isnt a lot of turning the cheek. Granted, I am being very antagonistic but that cant be used as an excuse to go against Jesus teachings, surely? I mean, I could be a test from Satan to see if you really are living Gods word right? (Thinks mental illness, see earlier comments)
Are you under the impression that I support a state religion? I don't want to be a Muslim anymore than I do an atheist. It's all about free thinking for we Christians. Forcing people to be Christians is going against what Jesus said. You know that right?
You made a free choice, but you gave up your right to think freely soon after.
Don't blame Jesus for liars in the Church.
Fruit, trees, 2000 years and getting your act together spring to mind.
You're joking right? You have literally presented Dawkins as a support for your freely chosen choices.
I used Dawkins to collaborate similar views that we both share but thats as far as it goes.
Oh really? So 0 x 0 can equal the universe existing? How pray tell?
Is an earth suddenly appearing out of nothing, followed by 6 days of construction work a better alternative? See my earlier comments on my beliefs re universes/earth
You do realize that "I" and millions of other Christians disprove your hypothesis? "Freethinking" the Club, leads to bobbleheadism. All of you parrot the party line.
Youre mistaking free choice with free thought.
What does a calculator prove? Are you insinuating that some of the greatest thinkers and scientists of our time (and in History) were just ignorant, stupid and incapable of thinking for themselves?
Yes.
You cannot be serious? If youre on the same level as Einstein then maybe id take you seriously.
There were atheists long before "Christians." The Israelites wrote of them. "Fools" I think they called them. Ancient wisdom.
Of course theyd call sensible people fools how else would they be able to peddle their ridiculous myths without projecting on to their enemies.
Hundreds, if not thousands, of denominations disprove your position has no value yet again.
The guys at the top of the heap do, but the countless millions who follow their pastors every word prove my point.
I have debated this goofiness with other atheists. Do some math and research and compare those killed by Crusades, Inquisitions and hypocrisy, to those killed by atheism. You are going to be very shocked. If we are to weigh the evidence for the value of belief systems, yours is going to look very bad.
sure, atheists can be bad people too. The difference is atheists dont peddle the fact that a supreme, almightly loving creator is on their side and they are simply committing a war crime because he told them to.
Do you realize that John in his Gospel relied on "Logic" to prove his point. Literally to prove Who and What Jesus is? Christians have never been afriad of reason and logic. Not one moment in our history. Our real documented history.
Id be grateful if you could expand on this.
Your views are based on what some atheist has taught you. Little more than that. The power of rote shows that.
Rest assured, I came up with that death one myself. Sure, out of 6,000,000,000 worldwide someone must have thought something similar. It doesnt mean either of us copied each other. Everyone needs to go to the john sometimes, does that mean were all just copying each others views?
What? I have taken classes to "wake up" people that have died. Death is not always a sure thing. Now, if you are ignorant abut death, then people are really in trouble. CPR is a reality too.
If people really were being raised from the dead on a regular basis (and it was documented) do you not reckon it would feature in mainstream media?
Origins of Species for starters. And of course your new God Delusion doctrinal book. There's lots in between them.
Ive never read the former and Im a quarter through the latter. Please give me more books that I supposedly base my life on.
Go peddle that dribble to a fellow freshman. I know what's up. I no longer have to appease my professors or try to make friends with Goths, cuz' their parties are so intense.
??
I like to call it free thinking. It's a Christian thing.
Id call it free-falling if I were you. Free-falling right into an anti-free viewpoint. Never forget who physically wrote the Bible. As far as Im aware, God didnt put pen to paper himself.
Humanism is the religion of atheists. Literally. Why the need to deny a fact? That isn't very logical, reasonable or scientific.
This is getting a little tedious (but still very amusing). The following quote can be found here (
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071225200343AAwhXyP ) and it sums up exactly what Ive been trying to get across:
Atheism by itself is merely lack of belief in a deity. Some atheists are humanists, some are not. Humanism is an attempt at developing an ethical framework without reference to a deity. While most humanists are atheists, some are not. Humanism does not require atheism, though it helps, since most who rely on supernatural claims/deities for their guides have a hard time truly thinking for themselves.
Your lack of knowledge is somewhat irritating
and yours is likewise.
That of course id why I am a Christian. It was a freely thought out choice. That really seems to be what pi--es you atheists off so much. We Christians are the original free thinkers.
You made a free choice. That free choice wasnt to think freely. There is a difference
Then you are on the right path to becoming a real Christian. Free thinking will do that every time.
Freethinking showed me that the right path most certainly isnt Christianity and the lies and myths it peddles (admittedly it does go side by side with some good borrowed Egytptian wisdom).
If you want, we can agree to disagree. If you dont, I will continue to reply to any points you put to me. I trust that one day you and millions of others will come to see sense.
