Atheism (moved)

[1j9r8w9]

What do Christians think of us Atheists on here? Do you think we should be allowed to post on a Christian forum? If not, why not?

Just in case anyone was thinking of asking, i'm on here because I seek answers to a lot of questions and there's no-one better to put questions/arguements/theories to than the very people they're based on.

PS, lease don't make it personal.

Mike Corleone (Godfather III): Never hate your enemies. It clouds your judgement

Before anyone makes comments about getting a free-ride, I just became a monthly site supporter. Nothing in life is free

 

[Polycarp_fan]

What do Christians think of us Atheists on here? Do you think we should be allowed to post on a Christian forum? If not, why not?

No. They should be allowed to listen in, but not to interact. Far, far, too many atheists have nothing constructive to offer a Christian. A "Christian" that was probably once an atheist-like person anyway. Other than "YOU guys should live like . . ." an atheist just offers the same old tired merry-go-round of simpletonisms. "Why are babies born blind?" It doesn't ever really get past that foundation.

Just in case anyone was thinking of asking, i'm on here because I seek answers to a lot of questions and there's no-one better to put questions/arguements/theories to than the very people they're based on.

Please allow me to doubt you and your position here. I'd bet you just want to try out your "cognitive dissonance" tactics you learned from a "skeptic freethinker." Have you ever noticed that every "freethinker" is exactly the same.

Why not make your choice and live your life that way? Not all atheists are Marx or Stalin. Some are incredibly sweet people. Usually, because they DON'T like babies to be born blind and are mad at God for doing that.

PS, lease don't make it personal.

C'mon now. You stride into a Christian forum and state that? You just went personal by asking that question.

Before anyone makes comments about getting a free-ride, I just became a monthly site supporter. Nothing in life is free

Christ is 100% free. It is atheism that costs tens of thousands of dollars to go to Universtity to get it.

By the way, I don't believe that anyone "is" an Atheist, or, can ever "be" an Atheist. It is mathemtically impossible.

 

[Elijah2]

What do Christians think of us Atheists on here? Do you think we should be allowed to post on a Christian forum? If not, why not?

Just in case anyone was thinking of asking, i'm on here because I seek answers to a lot of questions and there's no-one better to put questions/arguements/theories to than the very people they're based on.

PS, lease don't make it personal.

Before anyone makes comments about getting a free-ride, I just became a monthly site supporter. Nothing in life is free

Well if you search around this forum you will find a slot for that discussion. But this Christian Advice forum is for advice to Christians, and anything that you post that will cause any dissension or doubt of those Christians who post on the particular forum, which is Christian Only, then you could be banned.

So I suggest you go and search for that forum that discuss these things with you and your concerns why you are an atheist. And that's not personal.

Be blessed in Jesus Name.

 

[1j9r8w9]

Alas, I feared I get the following sort of Post:

No. They should be allowed to listen in, but not to interact.

Please take heed of the following:

1 Peter 3:15 (English Standard Version) 15but in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect,

Far, far, too many atheists have nothing constructive to offer a Christian. A "Christian" that was probably once an atheist-like person anyway.

Atheists offer Christians the chance to think for themselves and not be duped into believing something because of the way they were brought up or indoctrinated as a child. Atheism is true freedom (well, it's pretty close. You could argue that Christians are 'free' to choose to believe in something which limits their freedoms)

Other than "YOU guys should live like . . ." an atheist just offers the same old tired merry-go-round of simpletonisms. "Why are babies born blind?" It doesn't ever really get past that foundation.

For some good arguements for Atheism, check out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arguments_for_the_existence_of_God#Arguments_against_belief_in_God

Please allow me to doubt you and your position here. I'd bet you just want to try out your "cognitive dissonance" tactics you learned from a "skeptic freethinker."

You lost your bet. I hadn't even heard of Cognitive Dissonance before you mentioned it. Anyway, Cognitive Dissonance is an uncomfortable feeling or stress caused by holding two contradictory ideas simultaneously - what's that got to do with anything?

Why not make your choice and live your life that way? Not all atheists are Marx or Stalin. Some are incredibly sweet people. Usually, because they DON'T like babies to be born blind and are mad at God for doing that.

C'mon now. You stride into a Christian forum and state that? You just went personal by asking that question.

I was hoping to avoid the cheap, shoddy jibes of the sort you've made. Claims that have no basis in fact at all.

Christ is 100% free.

If you don't count selling your life to Jesus and Changing who you are for the rest of your life.

It is atheism that costs tens of thousands of dollars to go to Universtity to get it.

Wether someone studies Science or Divinity, they both cost the same (well, in the UK they do). And it's Atheists that brought us massive advances in Science - DNA and Chemotherapy both came to us from Atheists, not to forget Albert Einstein and all he did.

By the way, I don't believe that anyone "is" an Atheist, or, can ever "be" an Atheist. It is mathemtically impossible.

what? Please can you elaborate on that.....

 

[1j9r8w9]

Well if you search around this forum you will find a slot for that discussion.

I tried but couldn't find it. Do you know of its location?

But this Christian Advice forum is for advice to Christians, and anything that you post that will cause any dissension or doubt of those Christians who post on the particular forum, which is Christian Only, then you could be banned.

I thought this site was owned by Escalate Media, a for profit corporation that also runs other forums? I'd understand being banned for breaking the law but for offending someone/posting in the wrong forum I find it a bit Draconian (and i'm sure Escalate Media is pretty profit-orientated and wouldn't like to lose a regular paying member)

So I suggest you go and search for that forum that discuss these things with you and your concerns why you are an atheist. And that's not personal.

See above but one post.

 

[Subdood]

Well, this is a Christian site - set up for purposes of Christians to come together, fellowship, encourage one another, build one another up.

Personally, I think atheists, agnostics, "seekers" etc. should be welcome here (I certainly welcome them/you) - as long as they respect the purpose of the site and the beliefs and faith of those who come here.

It seems to me anyone who is honest and sincere in their questions about Christianity, God, the Christian faith, the Bible, etc. should be welcome. Personally, I don't appreciate those who come here to disrupt, mock, impugn, blaspheme, or ridicule. I regard those as insincere and dishonest who join CF for these purposes, knowing the purpose of the site, agreeing to abide by all the site rules, and then proceed to disrespect God, Christianity, and Christians.

"Honest" and "sincere" means, IMHO, that one's reasons for joining a site whose values you do not yet share, are reasons of genuine interest. It's ok to question, to even question persistently with the hard questions; but an insincere person's interests here would be other than this, seeking rather to promote their own values at the expense of ours.

Frankly, I don't see a whole lot of non-Christians, whose values are admittedly contrary to Christian values, finding the site that enjoyable unless they have a sincere interest in the faith - but I question what values motivate someone to stay here who isn't seeking to know or understand more about Christianity.

 

[miguel_de_luis]

What do Christians think of us Atheists on here? Do you think we should be allowed to post on a Christian forum? If not, why not?

Just in case anyone was thinking of asking, i'm on here because I seek answers to a lot of questions and there's no-one better to put questions/arguements/theories to than the very people they're based on.

PS, lease don't make it personal.

Before anyone makes comments about getting a free-ride, I just became a monthly site supporter. Nothing in life is free

Hi,

Well there are billions of Christians out there (literally), so it's impossible to give an answer...

As for myself my small brother is an atheist, and he's still my brother. I'd prefer he would become Christian, becuase I think being Christian is better, but that's all.

I do not classify my friends just because they are right or wrong about something. Nor if they are more or less smart / handsome / merry or whatever.

I think that sums up.

 

[Flibbertigibbet]

What do Christians think of us Atheists on here? Do you think we should be allowed to post on a Christian forum? If not, why not?

Just in case anyone was thinking of asking, i'm on here because I seek answers to a lot of questions and there's no-one better to put questions/arguements/theories to than the very people they're based on.

PS, lease don't make it personal.

Before anyone makes comments about getting a free-ride, I just became a monthly site supporter. Nothing in life is free

I think that anyone with questions about Christianity should be allowed to post, regardless of your personal beliefs. I don't think the posts should ridicule the Christian faith - nor do I think that Christians who respond to questions from non-believers should ridicule them.

If your questions stem from genuine interest and curiousity, whether you believe or not, it is my belief that we are called to respond. (see Peter, always being ready to give a reason for why we believe as we do - rough paraphrase).

On the other hand, if the questions posed are only intended to stir up strife and contention they should be disallowed - whether they come from Christians or non-Christians. There is a difference between discussion & debate and attack & ridicule.

I, for one, am always willing to respond to a question regarding my beliefs, so long as it isn't posed in a hateful manner.

In addition, as an atheist/agnostic until 2007, I think that persons with questions or an interest in Christianity are seekers - whether they know it or not.

There are specific sub-forums for fellowship with only other Christians. All who want to question should be allowed to do so in the appropriate places.

 

[Polycarp_fan]

Alas, I feared I get the following sort of Post:

Please take heed of the following:

Atheists offer Christians the chance to think for themselves and not be duped into believing something because of the way they were brought up or indoctrinated as a child. Atheism is true freedom (well, it's pretty close. You could argue that Christians are 'free' to choose to believe in something which limits their freedoms)

0 x 0 = atheism. I am free to believe that atheism is nonsense.

For some good arguements for Atheism, check out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arguments_for_the_existence_of_God#Arguments_against_belief_in_God

Benn there, did that, bought the t-shirt and threw it away quite some time ago.

You lost your bet. I hadn't even heard of Cognitive Dissonance before you mentioned it. Anyway, Cognitive Dissonance is an uncomfortable feeling or stress caused by holding two contradictory ideas simultaneously - what's that got to do with anything?

Hmm, I don't think you're as new to this as you let on. With an atheist always comes their agenda. Looking at the typical, rote world of the skeptic/freethinker, it is too simple and too easy to appease my desire to know things.

I was hoping to avoid the cheap, shoddy jibes of the sort you've made. Claims that have no basis in fact at all.

Oh really? Cruise the skeptic websites. The bobblehead dolls all look the same there. Sorry, that's just my experiential opinion.

If you don't count selling your life to Jesus and Changing who you are for the rest of your life.

Jesus only changes some things. I am still the guy I was before realizing Jesus was a fact.

Wether someone studies Science or Divinity, they both cost the same (well, in the UK they do). And it's Atheists that brought us massive advances in Science - DNA and Chemotherapy both came to us from Atheists, not to forget Albert Einstein and all he did.

Smart bombs come from atheists as well. In keeping with the knowledge of good and evil. Atheists have also killed more human beings than any other faith-based belief system in history. Care to compare?

By the way, I don't believe that anyone "is" an Atheist, or, can ever "be" an Atheist. It is mathemtically impossible.

what? Please can you elaborate on that.....

0 x 0 cannot make "you."

 

[HeatherG]

I tried but couldn't find it. Do you know of its location?

Hi there,

What do I think of atheists? I think atheists are loved just as much by God as Christians but unfortunately they do not know that love ... though you still have the chance to accept it. Personally, I very much welcome atheists to come and ask questions of Christians, but this is probably not the right forum as it specifies it is advice for Christians.
However, I think I have found just the forum for you:

Questions by non-Christians

I hope the link works. And I hope you find the answers you are looking for.

God bless you.
Heather

 

[1j9r8w9]

I think that anyone with questions about Christianity should be allowed to post, regardless of your personal beliefs. I don't think the posts should ridicule the Christian faith - nor do I think that Christians who respond to questions from non-believers should ridicule them..........If your questions stem from genuine interest and curiousity, whether you believe or not, it is my belief that we are called to respond. (see Peter, always being ready to give a reason for why we believe as we do - rough paraphrase).

It is with 1 Peter 3:15 in Mind that I ask questions

On the other hand, if the questions posed are only intended to stir up strife and contention they should be disallowed - whether they come from Christians or non-Christians. There is a difference between discussion & debate and attack & ridicule.

Due to my argumentative nature (and also my immaturity at 18) a lot of my views come across as ridicule and hatred. Rest assured they are not and I will take on board any suggestions people have (atheist or otherwise )

There are specific sub-forums for fellowship with only other Christians. All who want to question should be allowed to do so in the appropriate places.

That's one problem I come against is finding the right place to post in. A few of my posts Cross different boundaries (i.e. a recent one covered Dating and Theology). Once again, if i'm posting in the wrong place i'm happy to be corrected

Thanks for replying too

 

[drich0150]

Just in case anyone was thinking of asking, i'm on here because I seek answers to a lot of questions and there's no-one better to put questions/arguements/theories to than the very people they're based on.

So.. What questions?? The only questions you've ask so far, you already have the answers for.. We seem to be only getting the balance of the Arguments/Theories portion of your thread.

 

[1j9r8w9]

Hi there,

What do I think of atheists? I think atheists are loved just as much by God as Christians but unfortunately they do not know that love ... though you still have the chance to accept it. Personally, I very much welcome atheists to come and ask questions of Christians, but this is probably not the right forum as it specifies it is advice for Christians.
However, I think I have found just the forum for you:

Questions by non-Christians

I hope the link works. And I hope you find the answers you are looking for.

God bless you.
Heather

Thanks that's great!

 

[1j9r8w9]

So.. What questions?? The only questions you've ask so far, you already have the answers for.. We seem to be only getting the balance of the Arguments/Theories portion of your thread.

I've only made 69 posts and i'm in a continual learning/development process. Hopefully i'll grow out of making pure arguements in time

 

[drich0150]

If you don't actually have any questions may I ask a few like:

What exactly do you believe?
Why have you taken the time to be so well versed in the bible?
Why hasn't this knoweledge been able to translate to faith in God?
What do you wish to accomplish by confronting those outside your faith?
Are you looking to convert "unenlightened" souls?
Why are we worth your great effort?

Do all atheist believe the same thing or is it a matter of personal belief/faith?
If yes, then is there a book of rules or guide to help one new in your faith to become more "enlightened?"
If no, Do you find it a bit hypocritical to criticize one with defined parameters in their system of belief, When you do not?
Why or why not?

What authority to you ultimately yield to? The government? the law, Personal philosophy? something else?
What gives you direction, what do you do with life? To what/who do you live for?
What happens when it is over? What if your wrong? What then?

 

[newbeliever02072005]

Mod Hat On

Thread moved from Christian Advice to Questions by Non-Christians.


Mod Hat Off

 

[1j9r8w9]

If you don't actually have any questions may I ask a few like:

What exactly do you believe?

See definition below on freethinking

Why have you taken the time to be so well versed in the bible?

I'm studying it at A-Level so I need to know my stuff to get a Grade A (and with that, a place in a reputable University). It's also become a hobby of mine to research the Bible so i'm growing in my knowledge of it every day

Why hasn't this knoweledge been able to translate to faith in God?

It was 18 years of Indoctrination, 1 week of taking the courage to leave the Religion of my forefathers and 5 months of realising what I was taught didn't make sense (see definition below on freethinking) to come to where I am today. It's ironic that in trying to find out more about the God I was taught to believe was real, it actually pushed me further away from Christianity

What do you wish to accomplish by confronting those outside your faith?

1 Peter 3:15

Are you looking to convert "unenlightened" souls?

In time, Yes.

Why are we worth your great effort?

1 Peter 3:15

Do all atheist believe the same thing or is it a matter of personal belief/faith?

There are roughly 150,000,000 Atheists in the world (not counting Buddhists et al) and I couldn't possibly vouch for them all. Just like in Christianity though (i.e. Protestant vs Catholic) there are some differences but the central core is largely the same (i.e. there is no God).

If yes, then is there a book of rules or guide to help one new in your faith to become more "enlightened?"

Although i'm reading the God Delusion, I don't treat it as a Bible (I'm actually bitterly disappointed by some of Dawkins half-baked views). There are no 'set' rules in Atheism/Freethinking, but they can be defined as follows:

Freethought holds that individuals should neither accept nor reject ideas proposed as truth without recourse to knowledge and reason. Thus, freethinkers strive to build their beliefs on the basis of facts, scientific inquiry, what's gone by one's own eyes, and logical principles, independent of any factual/logical fallacies or intellectually-limiting effects of authority, cognitive bias, conventional wisdom, popular culture, prejudice, sectarianism, tradition, urban legend, and all other dogmatic or otherwise fallacious principles. As such, when applied to religion, the philosophy of freethought holds that, given presently-known facts, established scientific theories, and logical principles, there is insufficient evidence to support the existence of supernatural phenomena.

If no, Do you find it a bit hypocritical to criticize one with defined parameters in their system of belief, When you do not?
Why or why not?

Whatever someones viewpoint, there is bound to be hypocrisy at some time or another. Personally, the more I learn, mature and refine my views, the less hypocritical i'll become.

What authority to you ultimately yield to? The government? the law, Personal philosophy? something else?

I respect the laws of the government in line with Romans 13:1-3; the difference being I do so not because God put them there, but a Democratic voting process did.

What gives you direction, what do you do with life? To what/who do you live for?

Learning gives me direction and a purpose in life. In time, I hope teaching what i've learnt will be beneficial to others too. I'd like to be an Author or Businessman when i've got a few more years life experience (and a Degree) under my belt.

What happens when it is over?

Although not a biologist, I know that the brain is billions of nerves in one ball, powered by electro-chemical reactions. When we die, I think those reactions stop, the brain ceases to function and we have no knowledge of death (just like you never hear the bullet that killed you going 'bang' as the bullet travels faster than sound)

What if your wrong? What then?

Well i've broken the rule of Mark 3:29 so if i'm wrong, i'm presuming it's a lengthy stretch in Hell until the Second Death (Rev. 20: 11-15).

 

[drich0150]

What do you wish to accomplish by confronting those outside your faith?Why are we worth your great effort?
​

1 Peter 3:15

I have never come across an organized Atheist before. That's the reasons for the questions. I'm not preparing for a debate or looking to convert you or anyone else. I just have questions. So if you would permit a fool a dew more answers I'd appreciate it.

In my two questions above you listed 1 peter 3:15. So are you saying your helping us by providing an opportunity to "defend the faith?"

If yes I'm sure your well aware that Peter doesn't ask or command us to give a complete account of every principle written in scripture, or the origins of creation, the nature of God, Heaven, or hell.. He just merely asks for us to give an account of why WE believe what we do. These answers will vary vastly from person to person. Most of which won't hold up in the court of public opinion.. Which is ok because again we are told to, "Give a reason for the hope WE have." Not satisfy every question that can be asked.

Are you looking to convert "unenlightened" souls?
​

In time, Yes.

If you believe, the brain dies and you never hear the bullet that gets you then what do you benefit from the conversion of non believers?

Do all atheist believe the same thing or is it a matter of personal belief/faith?
​

There are roughly 150,000,000 Atheists in the world (not counting Buddhists et al) and I couldn't possibly vouch for them all. Just like in Christianity though (i.e. Protestant vs Catholic) there are some differences but the central core is largely the same (i.e. there is no God).

Is there a governing authority or a standard that dictates how you go about your beliefs.. Like perhaps is there a "prophet" or figure head that pioneered free thinkers everywhere? Who came up with your definition? are there other teachings or definitions from this person that is excepted by most of you?

I respect the laws of the government in line with Romans 13:1-3; the difference being I do so not because God put them there, but a Democratic voting process did.

Your use of scripture here and in 1 peter mirrors alot of religious christianity. The use of scripture when it suits your purpose, and deniablity when it does not.
I do see lot of potential hostility in what and how you write only being lightly restrained by a mortal attempt of self enlightenment. The observation and question here being, Do you really see yourself as a true free thinker? By the definition you left, There isn't a call to "Seek and save the lost." Nor is there any mention or apparent room for emotion. From my very basic understanding of the church of free thought there is a general Live and let live philosophy among it's believers. Does your philosophy of conversion and providing a platform of debate to unbelievers coincide with a pure form of the free thought doctrine/definition?

This being the case, I ask again what are you really doing here? I got your answer the first time in a verse. I'd like to hear what you want from us in your own words.

Not as a measure to stop you, but to know why or what drives this desire.
​

 

[1j9r8w9]

I have never come across an organized Atheist before. That's the reasons for the questions.

Is that a compliment?

So if you would permit a fool a dew more answers I'd appreciate it.

Sure. Atheism/Freethough/Agnosticism must, IMO have a Freethought equivalent of 1 Peter 3:15. It is only fair, after all, for Christians to defend themselves and attack us as vehemently as we do them.

In my two questions above you listed 1 peter 3:15. So are you saying your helping us by providing an opportunity to "defend the faith?"

Admittedly 1 Peter 3:15 isn't the best of verses - I am guilty of using it to get an answer out of Christians for the reasons why they Hope (and also to engage in debate of wether or not those reasons are valid)

If yes I'm sure your well aware that Peter doesn't ask or command us to give a complete account of every principle written in scripture, or the origins of creation, the nature of God, Heaven, or hell.. He just merely asks for us to give an account of why WE believe what we do.

True. But if we as Atheists/Freethinkers et al invoke Gods wrath (See John 3:36) and you as Christians are there to preach the Good news (Mark 15:15, 16), surely you must be ready to quash any arguements we have (and allow us the courtesy of doing the same)? Plus, you have God on your side so it is easy to destroy our views with reason, fact, logic and even scripture?

"Give a reason for the hope WE have." Not satisfy every question that can be asked.

True, my bad for sometimes twisting verses to suit my needs (I got that skill from Christians). The more I learn about the Bible, the more i'll be able to quote relevant verses.

If you believe, the brain dies and you never hear the bullet that gets you then what do you benefit from the conversion of non believers?

Because I don't like seeing people have false hope, basing their entire lives on 2000+ year old teachings and submitting to the will (wether under Gods instruction or not) of Preachers, pastors et al. It would bring great happiness to myself to see people think for themselves (granted, I have to respect if they choose to follow blindly - this is a Democracy after all).

Is there a governing authority or a standard that dictates how you go about your beliefs.. Like perhaps is there a "prophet" or figure head that pioneered free thinkers everywhere? Who came up with your definition? are there other teachings or definitions from this person that is excepted by most of you?

People have grave misconceptions of Atheism/Agnosticism/Freethought. Unlike Religion, there is no conversion process, no set text, no Prophet figure - it would all run contrary to what Freethought is. For example, I think Richard Dawkins is a bit of an idiot with the crazy views he comes out with - he would have been far better attacking Religion by proving the Bible to be false. Freethinking, as the name suggests, leaves people to make their own mind up based on fact, science, reason and logic - basic 'common sense' stuff. There's no fearmongering by talk of going to hell, and no false hope by talking of an unknowable afterlife where we all get to live in eternity (I detect a bit of wishful thinking/psychological crutch there)

Your use of scripture here and in 1 peter mirrors alot of religious christianity. The use of scripture when it suits your purpose, and deniablity when it does not.

As mentioned earlier, I got that little skill from my Church.

I do see lot of potential hostility in what and how you write only being lightly restrained by a mortal attempt of self enlightenment. The observation and question here being, Do you really see yourself as a true free thinker?

As I believe the Bible to be 'untrue' (oversimplification) any views/questions/theories arguements I have will come across as antagonistic and hostile.

By the definition you left, There isn't a call to "Seek and save the lost." Nor is there any mention or apparent room for emotion.

Emotion is nothing but an Electro-Chemical reaction. There's nothing special to it. It's our minds processesing five senses, re-jogging its memory of past events and then making a Chemical release in the Brain accordingly.

From my very basic understanding of the church of free thought there is a general Live and let live philosophy among it's believers.

There are at least 150,000,000 people that could be called Freethinkers so there is a real mixed bag of views/opinions/ideologies. Trying to impose freethought on others (which Is different to trying to make people see sense) runs contrary to its principle of making your own mind up. Plus, there is no 'Church' in Freethinking. Not yet anyway

Does your philosophy of conversion and providing a platform of debate to unbelievers coincide with a pure form of the free thought doctrine/definition?

I think it is the duty of every freethinking person to encourage others to do the same.

This being the case, I ask again what are you really doing here?

I am here primarily because I seek answers. Sure, my posts often turn into debates/arguements but in them I am always trying to find answers. Why do I need answers? :

A wise man gets more use from his enemies than a fool from his friends.

 

[drich0150]

Is that a compliment?

Just an observation, no insult or praise intended.

True. But if we as Atheists/Freethinkers et al invoke Gods wrath (See John 3:36) and you as Christians are there to preach the Good news (Mark 15:15, 16),

Mark 15:15And Pilate, desiring to do what was pleasing to the people, let Barabbas go free, and gave up Jesus, when he had been whipped, to be put to death on the cross. 16And the men of the army took him away into the square in front of the building which is the Praetorium, and they got together all the band.

???? I don't understand the reference

surely you must be ready to quash any arguments we have (and allow us the courtesy of doing the same)?

We do if we decide to let our proud hearts take control, but if we adhere to scripture and what is wishes for us to relay to the unbeliever then, a I don't know or I'm not sure is an acceptable part of any response. Having an answer for every Question is a tenement of the Church of science and history, not one of the True Church of Christ. How can one being finite, comprehend something infinite? We at best have a general understanding of things spiritual. Matt 11:25 tells us that true knoweledge is hidden from the learned and wise. This scripture isn't only referencing those not of the Christian faith. Most of the time the more learned and wise we get the less we can effectively communicate the truth of faith.

Plus, you have God on your side so it is easy to destroy our views with reason, fact, logic and even scripture?

God works sharper than any double bladed sword (he can cut both ways) But usually to the side of the person who wishes to submit to his will and word. Often times the motives in approaching a "Free thinker" is a Pride based decision. But, even so the decision maker usually has a heart for God. This being the case the best thing for pride is humility. When we approach a free thinkers argument outside of the parameters of scripture we only accomplish foolish arguments where both side cling to their beliefs even tighter, or we receive a humiliating experience, because again we over step our authority..

We are told to just Give the reason for the hope we have, when asked. Anything beyond that is not of God.
Remember Christian or not we are basically the same, what angers you, would probably anger me. All the way down to the pride values we share.

When I was a child, I acted like a child, and spoke like a child. When I became a man I put away childish things. I think my version of this scripture would do alot to explain why some of us attack and let our pride run away with us, while others do not.

Because I don't like seeing people have false hope, basing their entire lives on 2000+ year old teachings and submitting to the will (whether under Gods instruction or not) of Preachers, pastors et al. It would bring great happiness to myself to see people think for themselves (granted, I have to respect if they choose to follow blindly - this is a Democracy after all).

I have a similar view. I belive that most religious efforts/Church traditions are fundamentally flawed. in that they subjugate the people who have a love for God and wish to submit there lives to him. I fight a similar battle trying to shine a light on tradition, and "Religion" Man's effort to worship God in his own way. But Where we differ is that I still choose to hold true to the bible, as a point of reference or Standard to work by.

My belief in scripture is faith based, much like someone who chooses not to believe in it, because of an Idea or "Proof" written in yet another book. When it comes down to the basic fundamentals of what both Faith based beliefs are found on, neither the Christian or "Free thinker" can provide any fist person knoweledge to the accounts of creation, the origins of God, Heaven, hell, History preceding one's own life span, Or any science outside of what you have personally provided proof for. All of faith or even "higher learning" is, just Faith.
Faith that the people recording history didn't have any personal or political agendas to influencing there writings. That the scientific community isn't or hasn't been biased to one particular person's research or Just has an accurate understanding of what ever it is it's trying to explain. Ex. Hole in the Ozone (that's not there anymore) Pluto, The predicted Ice Age by 2020 during the late 70's early 80's, Now Global warming, etc, etc... And yes even Faith that scripture is accurate.

We all choose to believe or have faith in something even if we think we choose nothing at all.


To be continued...