Atheism makes no sense to me?!?

[Freodin]

Yes, because I realized that Jesus was the answer!

Then you certainly have realized wrongly, because I realized that Jesus was not the answer.

 

[KCfromNC]

ToHoldNothing and Wiccan_Child,

I want to elaborate a bit more on the Pentagram issue. First, ToHoldNothing, Wiccan_Child admitted that it was a Pentagram, and NOT one of the other symbols you described. I do agree that many symbols are mistakenly interpreted by other believers and sometimes given improper meaning. Having said that, my comments were centered more on the issue of respect. Whether or not most Christians SHOULD not be offended by Wicca or the Pentagram, is irrelevant to the fact that they are. Using symbolism that inflames the fears and loathing of people on a site dedicated to their religion is not respectful. I am not going to report you W_C. That was never my intention. I am simply stating that what you use as an avatar and user name on this site shows little respect or maturity for a person that is a guest on a Christian forum. Having the RIGHT to do something does not mean that something SHOULD be done. If this were a general faith or non-religious site, I would defend your right to display that symbolism. Here, displaying the Pentagram is offensive, whether you believe it should be or not. I would not log on to an NAACP site with the Confederate Battle Flag as my avatar, though I have a right to. I would not log onto a Jewish site with the Swastika as my avatar, though I have a right to. Like I said, it is an issue of respect and maturity. I am certainly not interested in "taking out any Big Bad Pagan." You give yourself too much honor and attention my friend. I am simply saying that your actions are trite, offensive and immature. Nothing more.

Geez dude, either report it or get over it. Or both. Whatever - no one else cares.

It is interesting that all this spleen-venting started in place of a reasonable discussion of the actual responses raised by non-believers in this thread. I guess it's easier to bring up and tear down stuff some random unrelated person might have said said and complain about how you're being persecuted because someone has a picture of a star.

 

[Mling]

But....stuff does happen. That's self-evident. Look around and what do you see?
Stuff.
Happening.

 

[Lord Emsworth]

Yes, because I realized that Jesus was the answer!

And "Jesus" is different from "stuff happens" how?

 

[SithDoughnut]

And "Jesus" is different from "stuff happens" how?

The spelling is different.

 

[Legal_Eagle]

KC, read the posts on the last page. We've taken that discussion of the pentagram off this thread to PM.

 

[Freodin]

But....stuff does happen. That's self-evident. Look around and what do you see?
Stuff.
Happening.

This is something I am wondering about as well. I think I know the reasoning of theists behind it, but I would like one of them to explain it.

 

[sandwiches]

Yes, because I realized that Jesus was the answer!

That's still either something from nothing or something from something else. What's different than from atheism or any other view for that matter?

 

[ThePilgrim101]

Are we having another conversation on "Atheists believe there is no god" again?

 

[biblebeltatheist]

I make this point in full recognition of the works of the likes of Stephen Hawkings. Even under modern String Theory, the Big Bang may have required no actual energy from God to begin, but the mass still had to come form SOMEWHERE.

I'm a little late to this conversation, but I'm curious about something here myself. You say the mass had to come from "somewhere". But even if you say, "God did it." you still haven't answered the question about where the mass came from. Saying God snapped his fingers and "magicked" it into existence, doesn't answer the question either, as it violates the (lesser of the quoted laws by Creationists) first law of thermodynamics, which essentially states that matter cannot be created nor destroyed.

Why do you think saying God did it all, answers the question about where the mass came from?

 

[Insane_Duck]

I'm a little late to this conversation, but I'm curious about something here myself. You say the mass had to come from "somewhere". But even if you say, "God did it." you still haven't answered the question about where the mass came from. Saying God snapped his fingers and "magicked" it into existence, doesn't answer the question either, as it violates the (lesser of the quoted laws by Creationists) first law of thermodynamics, which essentially states that matter cannot be created nor destroyed.

Why do you think saying God did it all, answers the question about where the mass came from?

Doesn't special relativity answer that question? Energy can be changed into mass and back again. Quantum mechanics and inflation (I think) allow energy to come from a vacuum.

 

[biblebeltatheist]

Doesn't special relativity answer that question? Energy can be changed into mass and back again. Quantum mechanics and inflation (I think) allow energy to come from a vacuum.

Heck, I don't know lol I'm no scientist...I just wanted to point out that the original poster essentially contradicts himself by saying, in effect...

1. Matter can't come from nothing
2. God made matter out of nothing

These are two contradictory statements, that few seem to get IS a contradiction. The 2nd point violates the 1st.

 

[ToHoldNothing]

But "God" is "special" ontologically, so they can just sweep your criticism under the rug, lol

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Doesn't special relativity answer that question? Energy can be changed into mass and back again. Quantum mechanics and inflation (I think) allow energy to come from a vacuum.

There's the cool idea that matter can pop into existence without violating energy conservation because matter is 'positive' energy, and the gravitational potential it causes is a sort of 'negative' energy that balances everything out.

Except for dark matter. Darn dark matter.

 

[Insane_Duck]

There's the cool idea that matter can pop into existence without violating energy conservation because matter is 'positive' energy, and the gravitational potential it causes is a sort of 'negative' energy that balances everything out.

Except for dark matter. Darn dark matter.

Can't particle anti-particle pairs also come from pure energy though? (when they come together again the are converted back to energy) Isn't this independent from gravity as negative energy?

 

[impblack]

Can matter pop into existence? Can science prove that? Honestly i never hear of such a thing, but i also don't know a lot about quantum mechanics (yet =D). But if it where that simpler, we would've heard a gigantic "WE DID IT!" from every atheist in the world (maybe including me xD). Of course that is not a serious argumente, and I'm no saying that it can't happen, weirder things happen in quantum mechanics...but i'm going to investigate that matter...

Atheism, the way i see it, my personal atheism, doesn't state that eternal things, infinite or incompressible things do not exist. Atheists do not believe in PERSONAL GODS. If you're definition of God falls into the category of "whatever created the universe" or "whatever was before the big bang" than i also believe in God, or that probably there is a God. Atheism is just a response to religion, to biblical or mythological gods, not philosophical or scientifical.

And if you ask me: How do you know there is no God? Isn't that kinda like faith?
Well, i don't no if there is a God. Strictly speaking i'm agnostic. But strictly speaking i'm agnostic about everything. I am what you can call a skeptical. I doubt there are absolute truths, and so i doubt everything.

"We have found it of paramount importance that in order to progress, we must recognize our ignorance and leave room for doubt. Scientific knowledge is a body of statements of varying degrees of certainty — some most unsure, some nearly sure, but none absolutely certain." Richard Feynman.

Know, in everyday life, if you ask me "do you believe in quantum physics?". Well, yes i do...i know there is a possibility it is all wrong, yes, but i, for now, live my lift according to the fact that quantum mechanics is right, and relativity is right, everything leads me to thinks that those physical theories are right. In the same way, can God exist? Yes, but i haven't found any good phylosofical proof and non scientifical proof so i think God most certaintly doesn't exist and i live my life according to that. Strictly i'm an agnostic and a skepticall(and also every intelligent atheist out there) but i am pretty sure that atheism and science are (at least partially) right

NOTE: I'm talking about science in a general way for i know it is not complete and most probably not even totally right, but i believe we won't be needing to change fundamental laws of physics any time soon because they do make sense and most theories in physics aren't jut proved wrong, manye are just no 100% correct or general enough, and ence my statemente "i am pretty sure that atheism and science are (AT LEATS PARTIALLY) right"

 

[Insane_Duck]

^^^ My understanding is that baryonic matter is 90% nothing.

 

[Rudolph Hucker]

...

And I would argue against the categorization of people who "hate God" as atheists... but that would be something I would to argue with them.
.... .

Logically, someone who "hated God" could not be atheist.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Can't particle anti-particle pairs also come from pure energy though? (when they come together again the are converted back to energy) Isn't this independent from gravity as negative energy?

'Pure energy' doesn't really exist - it's particles all the way down. But the whole issue of the cosmic energy calculus is one of the great unanswered question in physics. Is antimatter affected by gravity like matter? Does it 'fall up'? More generally, is energy stored as potential excitation or massless photons affected by gravity? We know photons are, as they are bent by warping of space - but can they warp space as well? Could we have a photonic gravitational well?

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Can matter pop into existence? Can science prove that? Honestly i never hear of such a thing, but i also don't know a lot about quantum mechanics (yet =D). But if it where that simpler, we would've heard a gigantic "WE DID IT!" from every atheist in the world (maybe including me xD). Of course that is not a serious argumente, and I'm no saying that it can't happen, weirder things happen in quantum mechanics...but i'm going to investigate that matter...

As far as we can tell, it happens all the time. Scientists don't write home about it any more because it's been known for decades. And yet, the tired old Cosmological Argument still gets wheeled out to do the rounds...

Atheism, the way i see it, my personal atheism, doesn't state that eternal things, infinite or incompressible things do not exist. Atheists do not believe in PERSONAL GODS. If you're definition of God falls into the category of "whatever created the universe" or "whatever was before the big bang" than i also believe in God, or that probably there is a God. Atheism is just a response to religion, to biblical or mythological gods, not philosophical or scientifical.

And if you ask me: How do you know there is no God? Isn't that kinda like faith?
Well, i don't no if there is a God. Strictly speaking i'm agnostic. But strictly speaking i'm agnostic about everything. I am what you can call a skeptical. I doubt there are absolute truths, and so i doubt everything.

Do you doubt 1 + 1 = 2?