Atheism Is No Longer A Political Taboo

Caliban

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Study: Atheism is no longer a political taboo


“Prior to the 2016 election there were 5 public nontheist state legislators, because of our efforts we have over 50 today -- more than a 900% increase” (Center for Freethought Inquiry).


If this trend continues, what might American politics look like in 30 years?

With evangelicals wringing their hands even more tightly but, hopefully, with less power to do anything about it.

Also, I just got an ad on this page for an atheist dating service.
 
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Nithavela

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Study: Atheism is no longer a political taboo


“Prior to the 2016 election there were 5 public nontheist state legislators, because of our efforts we have over 50 today -- more than a 900% increase” (Center for Freethought Inquiry).



If this trend continues, what might American politics look like in 30 years?
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With evangelicals wringing their hands even more tightly but, hopefully, with less power to do anything about it.

Also, I just got an ad on this page for an atheist dating service.
Obviously because on what other site would atheism be a relevant dating factor:doh:
 
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Caliban

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Just as stupid, inflexible, and dogmatic as it has been with regard to the attempted Evangelical stranglehold over pretend political 'morals', but with different justifications. Meh.
I'm not so sure. I think people are becoming more research based and open to non idealistic ideas. Not on the far right or far left however.
 
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Study: Atheism is no longer a political taboo

“Prior to the 2016 election there were 5 public nontheist state legislators, because of our efforts we have over 50 today -- more than a 900% increase” (Center for Freethought Inquiry).

If this trend continues, what might American politics look like in 30 years?

The only thing that matters is whether you are a member of the church of equality. And that's where most atheists like to hang out.

"what might American politics look like in 30 years?"

A book called, The Fourth Turning, predicted our current mess back in the 90s. Historically, the US runs into a major crisis about 60 to 80 years after the last big crisis. The book predicted the next danger zone running from 2005 to 2025. Possible crises include revolution, civil war, depression and/or big war.

What causes these crises? The people get more and more stupid the farther one gets from the crisis. Full stupidity sets in when most of the people from the last crisis have died out. Then the nation becomes vulnerable again to another big crisis.

In 30 years America will probably look completely different from today. It might not even exist.
 
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Caliban

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In 30 years America will probably look completely different from today. It might not even exist.
I'm not clear what your opinion is; do you think "this mess" is resulting from secularity? Why would the US not exist in 30 years--that seems like a strange prediction or possibility.
 
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I'm not so sure. I think people are becoming more research based and open to non idealistic ideas. Not on the far right or far left however.

You may very well be correct, but the extremes in both camps are what is driving the overall political and cultural polarization of the country, such that the moderate left/right-leaning person is bound to run afoul of whatever passes for political and moral orthodoxy more generally in whatever party they may affiliate themselves with (as proven by the extreme rarity of, e.g., anti-abortion democrats, anti-gun republicans, etc), which -- because the whole mantra of 'the personal is political' has come true in the worst possible ways now -- has deep (mostly negative) implications .

So even if what you say is true, it doesn't really seem to matter at the moment because it has very little effect on anything. I don't remember the exact details, but social psychologist Jonathan Haidt showed this several years ago in one of his talks by pointing out that it used to be (15, 20, however many years ago it was) that if polling organizations knew your stance on 2-3 political wedge issues, they could reliably guess your stance on 5-10 other issues, whereas more recent polls have shown that your stances on 1-2 political issues predict your stances on another 20 issues (or some such increase; again, this was a talk from several years ago...sorry, I'm a bit scatter-brained as my father passed away two days ago, so I'm really spent). The lines between us and them are becoming increasingly rigid in this way, and there's very little room to breathe if you are not in total lock-step with whatever 'your side' has determined are its sacralized values and/or people.

This is why I ultimately don't view any increase in non-religious politicians as any different or better than when Evangelicals could reliably expect to control the political system under this or that regime. Okay, so now the new breed of politicians are atheists or otherwise non-believers. So what? If they are just as rigidly dogmatic as any token Evangelical or Evangelical-friendly politician, then how is it any better? Because those who don't believe in God have someone to look up in the political sphere now?

Frankly, I think the entire problem comes from looking up too much to political figures and figureheads, no matter what they claim to believe in or not believe in. I'm not going to say that everyone needs to believe in God, or that believing in God or a god will somehow magically set things right in the political sphere, and I am pro-secularism if only because the experience of everyone but me in my Church (in their homelands of Egypt, Sudan, and Libya) really does show how the absence of secular political alternatives will destroy a society (read: Egypt got measurably worse under the Muslim Brotherhood than it had been under a dictator like Mubarak or Al Sisi, and those two were/are already not up to general western standards), but that doesn't mean that I'm going to welcome in quasi-religious gobbledygook just because those professing it this time are saying that they represent that secular alternative. Show me first what you think I ought not be allowed to say (or ought to be mandated to say/believe) and I'll decide if you fit the bill to me, or if you're just another conservative 'evangelist' of another altogether more worldly and hollow political/social/moral gospel.

The Gospel according to George Will or Mengistu Haile Mariam (to choose two atheists very far apart from each other on the political and cultural spectrum) is not necessarily better than or devoid of the problems to be found in the approaches or stances of people like George W. Bush or whoever might typify the conservative Evangelical politician in the minds of the average American.
 
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If this trend continues, what might American politics look like in 30 years?

I don't see why it would look all that different from today. The human characteristics of greed, selfishness, and indifference are no respector of persons, whether they be Christian, Atheist, or otherwise.
 
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Caliban

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You may very well be correct, but the extremes in both camps are what is driving the overall political and cultural polarization of the country, such that the moderate left/right-leaning person is bound to run afoul of whatever passes for political and moral orthodoxy more generally in whatever party they may affiliate themselves with (as proven by the extreme rarity of, e.g., anti-abortion democrats, anti-gun republicans, etc), which -- because the whole mantra of 'the personal is political' has come true in the worst possible ways now -- has deep (mostly negative) implications .

So even if what you say is true, it doesn't really seem to matter at the moment because it has very little effect on anything. I don't remember the exact details, but social psychologist Jonathan Haidt showed this several years ago in one of his talks by pointing out that it used to be (15, 20, however many years ago it was) that if polling organizations knew your stance on 2-3 political wedge issues, they could reliably guess your stance on 5-10 other issues, whereas more recent polls have shown that your stances on 1-2 political issues predict your stances on another 20 issues (or some such increase; again, this was a talk from several years ago...sorry, I'm a bit scatter-brained as my father passed away two days ago, so I'm really spent). The lines between us and them are becoming increasingly rigid in this way, and there's very little room to breathe if you are not in total lock-step with whatever 'your side' has determined are its sacralized values and/or people.

This is why I ultimately don't view any increase in non-religious politicians as any different or better than when Evangelicals could reliably expect to control the political system under this or that regime. Okay, so now the new breed of politicians are atheists or otherwise non-believers. So what? If they are just as rigidly dogmatic as any token Evangelical or Evangelical-friendly politician, then how is it any better? Because those who don't believe in God have someone to look up in the political sphere now?

Frankly, I think the entire problem comes from looking up too much to political figures and figureheads, no matter what they claim to believe in or not believe in. I'm not going to say that everyone needs to believe in God, or that believing in God or a god will somehow magically set things right in the political sphere, and I am pro-secularism if only because the experience of everyone but me in my Church (in their homelands of Egypt, Sudan, and Libya) really does show how the absence of secular political alternatives will destroy a society (read: Egypt got measurably worse under the Muslim Brotherhood than it had been under a dictator like Mubarak or Al Sisi, and those two were/are already not up to general western standards), but that doesn't mean that I'm going to welcome in quasi-religious gobbledygook just because those professing it this time are saying that they represent that secular alternative. Show me first what you think I ought not be allowed to say (or ought to be mandated to say/believe) and I'll decide if you fit the bill to me, or if you're just another conservative 'evangelist' of another altogether more worldly and hollow political/social/moral gospel.

The Gospel according to George Will or Mengistu Haile Mariam (to choose two atheists very far apart from each other on the political and cultural spectrum) is not necessarily better than or devoid of the problems to be found in the approaches or stances of people like George W. Bush or whoever might typify the conservative Evangelical politician in the minds of the average American.
I also like Johnathan Haidt's work. His book, The Righteous Mind is applicable in this discussion. I personally think religion is a net negative in this country and human history--so I look forward to a more secular America. However, if the far left continues to gain power that would be bad. Secular voters are not all on the left. Secular thinkers tent to emphasize reason, democracy, and critical thinking--these things are more likely to flourish (IMO) in an environment that does not consider faith a pathway to knowledge.
 
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Caliban

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I don't see why it would look all that different from today. The human characteristics of greed, selfishness, and indifference are no respector of persons, whether they be Christian, Atheist, or otherwise.
I'm not sure; we have made great strides toward improving human civilization, cooperation, and peace. The more a country embraces secularity, the more peaceful, educated, and happy its citizens are.
 
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I also like Johnathan Haidt's work. His book, The Righteous Mind is applicable in this discussion. I personally think religion is a net negative in this country and human history--so I look forward to a more secular America. However, if the far left continues to gain power that would be bad. Secular voters are not all on the left. Secular thinkers tent to emphasize reason, democracy, and critical thinking--these things are more likely to flourish (IMO) in an environment that does not consider faith a pathway to knowledge.

I don't want to come across as naive here, but it seems to me if we would do our best to adhere to and embody the great ideas promulgated in our founding documents, then we'll be fine. I don't think this issue is secularism or religion, but just a failure to realize those great ideas, which I think could be accomplished by anyone regardless of whether they are religious or secular.

I do wish the Christian right would find something else to mess up besides our country, and the progressive left with them. But, I don't think the religious or the secular are somehow better fit to realize the ideas of this country. But, again, maybe I'm being naive.
 
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MehGuy

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I don't see why it would look all that different from today. The human characteristics of greed, selfishness, and indifference are no respector of persons, whether they be Christian, Atheist, or otherwise.

I tend to agree. I've seen once well spoken and intelligent atheist communities deteriorate in quality. A more secular world is expected, but I'm not sure if things will get much better. You still are dealing with a population with roughly the same distribution of IQ and whatnot. You're not going to get the same quality of atheists when it is more mainstream compared to when it was a smaller community and more selective in a sense.
 
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I'm not sure; we have made great strides toward improving human civilization, cooperation, and peace. The more a country embraces secularity, the more peaceful, educated, and happy its citizens are.

The post right below yours shows that we disagree. The founding documents of this country, I would argue, are the result of enlightenment ideas. But, they were approved by the religious and secular alike, which is part of what informs my position as stated above.
 
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