Atheism and Health

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Can God convince me he exists and is moral?

One god did already. (oh, not that god is moral. People follow whatever god they follow)

The One True God Who Gives Life is not followed by most.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Depends how close minded you are and whether you are willing to seek. Out of curiosity, by who or what measure of morality are you going to compare His morality to?

No it does not. I cannot choose to not believe something that I am convinced is true. I cannot choose to believe the moon is made of cheese. I can lie about it but I am convinced it is not made of cheese. So all God has to do is convince me he exists and he is moral and I will have no choice but to believe it.

As far as the morality question, I base my morality on the well being of everyone and objectively assess my actions to that goal. For example my morality would never set up rules to own slaves, it would be in opposition to the goal of well being.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I cannot choose to not believe something that I am convinced is true.

Do not then.

If you decide to test , or if you find out that what you once were taught is a lie, from a liar, THEN

you MIGHT choose what is right. As long as you trust your god, whatever it is you trust and follow or believe,
you won't trust the truth. That is true of everyone.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

One god did already. (oh, not that god is moral. People follow whatever god they follow)

The One True God Who Gives Life is not followed by most.

No, god has not convinced me he exists.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Do not then.

If you decide to test , or if you find out that what you once were taught is a lie, from a liar, THEN

you MIGHT choose what is right. As long as you trust your god, whatever it is you trust and follow or believe,
you won't trust the truth. That is true of everyone.

Not at all. This is just a deepity. I trust evidence.

Can god give me sufficient evidence for his existence? Is this possible?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

For example my morality would never set up rules to own slaves, it would be in opposition to the goal of well being.

Well spoken, though it looks like perspective:

it is true: your morality is in opposition to the goal of well being.

But wait a minute longer.... that is not fair - it is picking on words.... not really best idea....

Rather , if the goal is well being of others,
then
part of the goal would be to find out what was true from the Bible, why the directions even of slavery was better than any other alternative ....
(it was nothing related , not even close, to what you know of or think of slavery - not at all the same as American slaves nor American slave owners)

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

No, god has not convinced me he exists.

The Almighty, one True God, notes that whatever a person serves and believes, is their god.

Thus, whatever it is you serve and believe, that is your god.

True, your god won't save your soul nor spirit, but it is still your god.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Can god give me sufficient evidence for his existence? Is this possible?

Whatever it is you trust and follow, has already convinced you.

Yahweh will not change your mind, unless you turn to Him.

 

[LoG]

No it does not. I cannot choose to not believe something that I am convinced is true. I cannot choose to believe the moon is made of cheese. I can lie about it but I am convinced it is not made of cheese. So all God has to do is convince me he exists and he is moral and I will have no choice but to believe it.

You have free will and can choose to believe what you will. Do you believe the earth is a ball? That was a choice because i suspect you have never taken a space flight around it to determine the "proof" of it. Your will to believe it is based on the "witness" of scientists and astronauts. Most of what we believe is not based on any concrete evidence but is from second hand sources that we have chosen to believe and yet we will never get actual personal validation for. You can however get validation of there being a God if you are willing to follow the methodology laid out in the Bible. That is no different than how you would have to validate any scientific proof for some aspect of this physical reality. You want proof of a round earth or Quantum physics then follow the prescribed experiment to get the same results.

As far as the morality question, I base my morality on the well being of everyone and objectively assess my actions to that goal. For example my morality would never set up rules to own slaves, it would be in opposition to the goal of well being.

"Well being" is a relative term. Your opinion on what constitutes it, may not be what I consider it to be.
From my understanding of how things were back then, it was either be killed, or be a slave. What would be your choice for your well being when faced with such a dilemma? Even those ones who were not taken captive or killed, often died anyway from starvation, wild animals, outlaw bands or epidemics as the infrastructures would have been all destroyed in the wars. Slavery may have been the easier softer way in a time and place where "social welfare" was not a thing.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Well spoken, though it looks like perspective:

it is true: your morality is in opposition to the goal of well being.

But wait a minute longer.... that is not fair - it is picking on words.... not really best idea....

Rather , if the goal is well being of others,
then
part of the goal would be to find out what was true from the Bible...

How do you know what is true from the bible?

, why the directions even of slavery was better than any other alternative ....
(it was nothing related , not even close, to what you know of or think of slavery - not at all the same as American slaves nor American slave owners)

You don't know what your bible says then. Is there any circumstance where beating a slave benefits overall well being? or capturing people from surrounding tribes and making them slaves against their will? This is what the bible says.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

The Almighty, one True God, notes that whatever a person serves and believes, is their god.

Thus, whatever it is you serve and believe, that is your god.

True, your god won't save your soul nor spirit, but it is still your god.

No. this is nonsense. Your just redefining what I believe to be god. What I believe resembles nothing like your belief in a god.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Whatever it is you trust and follow, has already convinced you.

Yahweh will not change your mind, unless you turn to Him.

So you are admitting that God cannot convince me that he exists. OK, that is not a very powerful God at all. I am convinced my evidence he can supply that if he likes.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

You have free will and can choose to believe what you will. Do you believe the earth is a ball? That was a choice because i suspect you have never taken a space flight around it to determine the "proof" of it. Your will to believe it is based on the "witness" of scientists and astronauts. Most of what we believe is not based on any concrete evidence but is from second hand sources that we have chosen to believe and yet we will never get actual personal validation for.

Not at all. You are talking about certainty. I don't believe certainty is achievable. I have an overwhelming amount of good evidence that the earth is a ball shape. It is about confidence levels. I have a high confidence based on the evidence that the earth is a ball shape. I can look at the evidence for myself and not just rely on what scientists say. I have insufficient evidence for god and all I can do is take your word for it without good evidence. I am not willing to do that.

You can however get validation of there being a God if you are willing to follow the methodology laid out in the Bible. That is no different than how you would have to validate any scientific proof for some aspect of this physical reality. You want proof of a round earth or Quantum physics then follow the prescribed experiment to get the same results.

I did for 18 years. Led me to be an atheist when I really looked at the evidence.

"Well being" is a relative term. Your opinion on what constitutes it, may not be what I consider it to be.

Agreed but that is why we need conversations. Your version of god is not what millions of other version are.

From my understanding of how things were back then, it was either be killed, or be a slave. What would be your choice for your well being when faced with such a dilemma? Even those ones who were not taken captive or killed, often died anyway from starvation, wild animals, outlaw bands or epidemics as the infrastructures would have been all destroyed in the wars. Slavery may have been the easier softer way in a time and place where "social welfare" was not a thing.

Who ordered them to be enslaved or killed? It was God. Is it ever moral to beat a slave? Is it ever moral to force a woman to marry their rapist against her will?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

So you are admitting that God cannot convince me that he exists. OK, that is not a very powerful God at all. I am convinced my evidence he can supply that if he likes.

God NEVER said He is Willing to convince you that He exists.
When raised for judgment, no one will need to convince you,
and it will be too late.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

No. this is nonsense. Your just redefining what I believe to be god. What I believe resembles nothing like your belief in a god.

Not just you - what everyone (billions) in the world believes, apart from what God Reveals,
is nothing like what God Reveals.
So you have a lot of others with you on the wide road.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Who ordered them to be enslaved or killed? It was God. Is it ever moral to beat a slave? Is it ever moral to force a woman to marry their rapist against her will?

The only hope for anyone, to know the truth,
is to seek the truth and to keep seeking the truth, as the Creator says.

To listen to all the other voices, even one other voice, instead,

leaves people lost and going the wrong direction - to desruction.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Is there any circumstance where beating a slave benefits overall well being?

Certainly. (though you mis-spoke, I think, as beating was either forbidden or regulated - and has nothing to do with what you are familiar with or learned from the enemy) .
And not in any way comprehensible to the normal mind of man. Not even in a Christian,
until God Grants it from heaven.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

God NEVER said He is Willing to convince you that He exists.
When raised for judgment, no one will need to convince you,
and it will be too late.

Wow, so God refuses to provide enough evidence to convince me he exists then damns me to hell for not believing he exists. And this is a god god?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Read the post again.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Not just you - what everyone (billions) in the world believes, apart from what God Reveals,
is nothing like what God Reveals.
So you have a lot of others with you on the wide road.

How can you possibly judge others beliefs to be false when they are using the same reasoning you are to determine their beliefs in God. Show me your beliefs are reasonably true with sufficient evidence. That is all I am asking.