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Featured At What Point Do You Think You Are Truly Saved?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by ChristServant, Nov 19, 2020.

  1. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Only born again people can hear the gospel in truth. The rest destroy it turning it into a law that cannot save.

    “But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” 1 Corinthians 2:14 (KJV 1900)

    “For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.” 1 Corinthians 2:11–12 (KJV 1900)


    “But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.” 2 Corinthians 4:3–4 (KJV 1900)
     
  2. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    That’s what I keep hearing but there’s a problem with that theology. How do you know if your saved when a person can fall from grace, be severed from Christ, and fail to remain in Christ? Not to mention that God is the only one who bestows grace upon someone and draws them to Christ. You and I simply view salvation from different perspectives brother. I view loss of salvation as being the person lost what they would’ve received if they had abided in Christ. You view it as they never had a chance for it which is not true if grace had been bestowed upon them.
     
  3. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    If you are born again, it's an experience that causes you to believe. Those without the experience have nothing to base their belief on.
     
  4. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    That’s not what Paul is saying in 1 Corinthians 2. That’s an exaggeration of what he is saying and it completely ignores his next few statements in the beginning of chapter 3. The Corinthians were still carnal and yet they were believers in the gospel.
     
  5. zoidar

    zoidar Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Understanding the gospel doesn't mean we have received it. We need to repent to receive. Maybe you agree?
     
  6. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    No it doesn’t actually say that. The closest it says is that thru Adam came judgement for all men. I don’t know how many times Jesus & the apostles said each man will be judged according to his deeds.
     
  7. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Then you cannot understand salvation and Christ's imputed righteousness. Paul uses the one to explain the other.
     
  8. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    You can’t be born again before you hear the gospel.
     
  9. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Are you sure? You cannot "hear" the gospel unless you are born again. Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit.
     
  10. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    Yes faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit, but faith and belief are not exactly the same thing are they? Here’s the big problem with your theology. You claim that you must be born again and receive the Holy Spirit before you can believe but then you dance around the issues of those who have fallen from grace and been severed from Christ saying these people were never saved to begin with then you quote verses saying he who is born of God overcomes the world implying that those who are born again cannot lose their salvation but only those who are born of God can fall from grace and be severed from Christ. You can’t be in Christ without believing the gospel. I’ve already proven several times that a person can believe the gospel before receiving the Holy Spirit. Cornelius and his household and the 12 disciples Paul baptized in Ephesus. They all beloved the gospel before receiving the Holy Spirit.
     
  11. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Jesus says whoever believes has eternal life. You cannot believe unless you have the Holy Spirit. So anyone in Acts had the Holy Spirit before they believed. The Baptism was only for the Apostles and those they laid hands on. The exception was the outpouring at Pentecost only on the apostles and at Cornelius' house 7 years later.
     
  12. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    And these people in Galatians 5:4 they fell from grace and were severed from Christ having never believed?
     
  13. zoidar

    zoidar Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Having the Holy Spirit = having faith/believing

    How on Earth can you have the Holy Spirit before believing? :scratch:
     
  14. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    “For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.” Galatians 5:3–4 (KJV 1900)
    I believe Paul is showing how apostasy works and warning them against it. But many do this and cannot repent according to Hebrews 6. Any who plan to sacrifice in a Millennial temple have already crossed the line as I see it.
     
  15. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Dead people cannot believe at a spiritual level. They believe only with the flesh. But cannot discern the truth.
     
  16. bekkilyn

    bekkilyn Contemplative Christian Supporter

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    Judgment isn't always a negative. Christ is both our judge and our lawyer (mediator). God's mercy is without end.

    "The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases, his mercies never come to an end; they are new every morning; great is your faithfulness." (Lamentations 3:22-23)

    I've already addressed God's foreknowing, all of which you have ignored, so I don't see any reason why we need to keep going around in circles. I simply don't view God as abusive, petty, and vindictive towards his creation. It's a contradiction of his character and of the gospel (which means GOOD news).
     
  17. bekkilyn

    bekkilyn Contemplative Christian Supporter

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    Nope, I simply don't follow a fear-based Christianity in which God is viewed as petty, abusive, cruel, and vindicitive towards his creation. It's a contradiction of his character and of the gospel (GOOD news to the whole world.)
     
  18. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    The word "fruit" implies a maturity. There is no maturity in initial saving faith. Those who believe are then saved. I know you believe the opposite is true. And I agree on a universal level. (everyone is saved, they just don't know it yet)
     
  19. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    So you reject the OT and Revelation which spells nothing but fear?

    Nope? I ran into another poster on another forum who used Nope as a favorite word. Have you run into me before?
     
  20. RickReads

    RickReads Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I mentioned your God is Omniscient but doesn`t use it so he can save sinners who don`t repent view, when I said you were rationalizing without scripture support.

    And only one that has suggested God could be abusive, petty, and vindictive is you in response to any suggestion that God might punish sinners.
     
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