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Featured At What Point Do You Think You Are Truly Saved?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by ChristServant, Nov 19, 2020.

  1. zoidar

    zoidar Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Sorry, not meant to be unkind. It's just that we see it all the time, quoted verses that can mean many different things, and no explanation given.
     
  2. Bob Carabbio

    Bob Carabbio Old guy -

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    Salvation BY FAITH, and NOT by works (which are the natural fruit if BEING Born Again by FAITH. (Eph 2:8,9)
     
  3. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    And what do you think that means?

    For example, how does one get faith?

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  4. Bob Carabbio

    Bob Carabbio Old guy -

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    Romans 10:17 Faith comes by HEARING< and HEARING By the Word of God. FAITH in invariably the result of God revealing His intentions by means of the Holy Spirit. CONVICTION OF SIN is the initial revelation, and the beginning of FAITH, when one repents and surrenders to God.
     
  5. bekkilyn

    bekkilyn Contemplative Christian Supporter

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    How do you reconcile the concept of a God who is the very embodiment of both justice and love to a god who will specifically create billions upon billions of souls for the SOLE PURPOSE of condemning them to an eternity of suffering? Do you truly believe it is justice by ANY definition to create a life for the purpose of everlasting torture? How do you even justify such a horrendous belief? It's abusive.

    That's not the gospel. That's not GOOD news. That's not the character of a just, loving, and merciful God who seeks to restore creation, who so loved the WORLD that he would do anything, even suffer and experience the consequences of sin, to demonstrate just how much love he has for the salvation of all people.

    His love is for all. His grace is for all. Over and over he reaches out his hand and hopes with all his heart that we choose to take it.
     
  6. RickReads

    RickReads Well-Known Member

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    What`s hard to reconcile? The Bible says the devil is the Father of the lost. People who don`t want to accept the existence of tares always seem to point fingers at God instead of accepting what the Bible says about it.
     
  7. zoidar

    zoidar Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Hm, at least God offers forgiveness of sins to everyone.

    Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through Him forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you, and through Him everyone who believes is freed from all things, from which you could not be freed through the Law of Moses. Therefore take heed, so that the thing spoken of in the Prophets may not come upon you:

    ‘Behold, you scoffers, and marvel, and perish;
    For I am accomplishing a work in your days,
    A work which you will never believe, though someone should describe it to you.’
    — Acts 13:38-41
     
  8. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    The gospel is the historical accounts of Jesus Christ’s sacrifice to save humanity. Hence the term “the good news”.
     
  9. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    I haven’t taken the time to read them yet. I started to read the epistle of Barnabas but decided to stop because I’m not even sure if he wrote it. There were a lot of forgeries back in the day. I really would be interested in reading his writings. I think Barnabas was probably my favorite apostle. Either him or Paul it’s hard to decide.
     
  10. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    Brother there’s nothing there that suggests he repented or was saved. It certainly is possible but inconclusive.
     
  11. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    They didn’t condemn all of Pelagian’s teachings. They never rejected Pelagian’s idea that God’s punishment on those who reject Him would be unjust if they were not capable of repentance.
     
  12. bekkilyn

    bekkilyn Contemplative Christian Supporter

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    So you're suggesting that it wasn't God who created all of those people for the sole purpose of everlasting torture, but rather the devil who created them? You're giving an awful lot of power to the devil.
     
  13. RickReads

    RickReads Well-Known Member

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    No need to put words in my mouth. I didn`t say a word about the devil creating nor do I give him any power. I`m suggesting that the Bible says the devil is the father of sinners. I`m also suggesting that it isn`t right to blame God for the lost.
     
  14. bekkilyn

    bekkilyn Contemplative Christian Supporter

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    I don't at all blame God for those who choose not to take him up on his offer of grace, who choose to remain separated from him.

    God would only be at fault if the perversion of the gospel (GOOD news) known as Calvinism is true, that God specifically, intentionally, and willfully created billions of people for the sole purpose of condemning them to eternal torture and suffering. Can't blame the devil for something the devil didn't do.

    “For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life. Indeed, God did not send the Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him." (John 3:16-17 emphasis mine)

    I'm not sure what part of "everyone" Calvinists can't seem to understand.
     
  15. RickReads

    RickReads Well-Known Member

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    Well, I`m not a Calvinist but let me ask you one question.

    Do you believe God is Omniscient?
     
  16. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    That's not the definition of "the gospel" you were using in post #254.

    BNR32FAN said:
    He said if you stand firmly in the faith of the gospel not if you are faithful enough to God. Standing firmly in the faith of the gospel means your trusting in the gospel not that you are being faithful to God that’s a whole different situation. You either believe and trust the gospel or you don’t. There’s no believing and trusting the gospel a little bit or believing and trusting a lot. It’s an either or situation. You either believe all of it or you don’t. How can someone have a little faith in the gospel without failing to believe all of it?
     
  17. bekkilyn

    bekkilyn Contemplative Christian Supporter

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    Yes, but I also believe that God is capable of forgetting...such as when he chooses to blot out our sin and not even remember it. What you're probably getting at here is something like, "God already knows everything we're going to do anyway, so he just goes ahead and gets all the torture and condemning done with before all those billions of people ever exist in the first place." But if such were the case, then God could easily also NOT choose to create all those billions of people and therefore completely and mercifully avoid the entire issue.

    Just because God has the power of omniscience doesn't necessarily mean he always chooses to wield it.

    It's also very possible that due to his omniscience that he has done exactly that and has created not a single human being that would ever choose to reject him and therefore God ultimately saves everyone.

    Here's the thing. People interpret the scriptures in the bible in various ways and there is never going to be universal agreement before the full and complete realization of God's kingdom, but I do know this. If an interpretation completely goes against the character of God and is in opposition to the GOOD news, then there is something deeply wrong with it.

    God is more loving, more just, more merciful, more good than every human being who has ever existed upon the earth COMBINED (with the exception of Christ, of course, who is God), and if even a moderately sinful human being wouldn't even consider the possibility of torturing most of their own children for an ETERNITY simply for being born through no choice of their own into a fallen world, then would you truly and sincerely believe that a God who is PERFECT at love, justice, mercy, compassion, kindness, and goodness would treat his children that way when he could easily, through omniscience, choose to just never create them?
     
  18. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    Right. Great post. Thanks!

    Jesus teaches that loving your enemy is godly behavior.
    The Damnationists make God out to be worse than a pagan or a tax-collector. (traitor)

    Matthew 5:43-48
    “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
     
  19. coffee4u

    coffee4u Well-Known Member

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    Romans 10:9
    If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
     
  20. RickReads

    RickReads Well-Known Member

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    I have said nothing about God`s judgment. You are making a lot of rationalization with no scripture supporting. I don`t think the Bible gives enough information on the judgment for anyone to
    say how severe it will be or how much mercy there will be.

    It is certain that those who belong to Christ will be treated differently than those who don`t. It is also certain that God has foreknown all those who come to Christ.

    Isaiah 46
    "Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure"
     
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