At Crossroads -- Cf's Vision Discussion Thread - Please Vote in Poll Thread

[ScottBot]

The Charge of Bigotry is based on allowing non-Christians onto the CF bus but making them sit in the back. They are to only drink from atheist water fountains, go to atheist schools, and there is a great fear that they may rape our souls.

Now that I think about it, I am pretty sure there were many Christians quoting Scripture to keep blacks in their "place" during the Civil Rights Movement.

Lisa

Would your church allow an atheist to come in for a day as a guest preacher and lead your worship services?

 

[JimfromOhio]

I am considering changing my mind... after seeing some attitudes, I think it is better that non-Christians NOT be a moderator.

For awhile I was promoting but now after seeing some posts, I am seriously considering.

 

[Lisa0315]

Observations: If the present vote holds (roughly 60/40 for option #2), I will not be surprised. In fact it would likely be larger but hundreds of conservatives found other sites after 7-7-7 as measured by membership stats.

What will be interesting is Erwin's reaction if option #2 is the majority position. Frankly, I am not sure what that means. A ton of work has been done by staff since 7-7-7 and determining what option #2 changes is not clear. Also it is unclear who does the change. Does Erwin take a more active role or is WIKI a feature in option #2.

In ancient CF when I was on executive Erwin was a master at balancing conservative vs liberal, Protestant vs. Catholic, etc. It was not always easy or pretty, but his instincts kept the plate spinning with less wobble than when he has been away.

The challenge is to find a way to run CF and keep a 60/40 split from rupturing CF. I am not sure there is a solution that does not involve Erwin's active involvement. There has to be an ultimate leader of an entity this complex and large. And given enough time the leader's soul will be transmitted through his leadership.

So Crossroads is a good metaphor and the famous Robert Johnson song seems appropriate:

I went down to the crossroads, fell down on my knees.​

I went down to the crossroads, fell down on my knees.​

Asked the lord above for mercy, "save CF if you please."​

I am praying for wisdom for Erwin as he interprets and implements whatever the poll concludes.

This has been a special place. Yet history shows that ministries come and go dependent upon leadership.

drstevej

How do you account for those who cannot vote due to the way the choices are stated? I would vote for #1 IF AND ONLY IF there were no name change. There have been many others who voiced the same.

Lisa

 

[Debi1967]

To be honest, I get the impression we're talking past each other to some extent. I don't think you'd actually agree with what you said you agreed with if you understood it to mean what I understood it to mean.

Yeah, that was clear.

ok Martin glad we got that cleared I guess

 

[intricatic]

The Charge of Bigotry is based on allowing non-Christians onto the CF bus but making them sit in the back. They are to only drink from atheist water fountains, go to atheist schools, and there is a great fear that they may rape our souls.

Now that I think about it, I am pretty sure there were many Christians quoting Scripture to keep blacks in their "place" during the Civil Rights Movement.

Lisa

We're not talking about taking social action via government to segregate people based on their faith, but we are talking about making a distinction about who should be placed in leadership positions within a Christian ministry. It's not that difficult and I'm getting a headache having to repeat it over and over again.

 

[Lisa0315]

Would your church allow an atheist to come in for a day as a guest preacher and lead your worship services?

Show me one atheist mod who is serving in the capacity as a minister in a Congregational or Theology forum, and I will change my stance.

The point is and has been that the atheist mods are only in Open Areas.

The whole of CF is not a church, but smaller gatherings of members here may be. I would not want an atheist minister in those smaller gatherings, no.

Lisa

 

[drstevej]

How do you account for those who cannot vote due to the way the choices are stated? I would vote for #1 IF AND ONLY IF there were no name change. There have been many others who voiced the same.

Lisa

Ask Erwin, he constructed the poll. I had no part in the wording of the OP or the attached poll.

Steve

 

[sparklecat]

I am considering changing my mind... after seeing some attitudes, I think it is better that non-Christians NOT be a moderator.

For awhile I was promoting but now after seeing some posts, I am seriously considering.

Shall we now judge all Christians as incapable of treating us fairly because of the actions of a few?

 

[Lisa0315]

We're not talking about taking social action via government to segregate people based on their faith, but we are talking about making a distinction about who should be placed in leadership positions within a Christian ministry. It's not that difficult and I'm getting a headache having to repeat it over and over again.

Can an atheist (without God) change their belief? They cannot no more than a person can change their skin color. It is bigotry by definition.

Lisa

 

[rushingwind62]

and in this case "believers" is defined as someone who believes in something.

I believe I can fly, I believe I can touch the sky.
I think about it every night and day, I spread my wings and fly away....

hey, hey we're the monkeys!!!

 

[Mary_Magdalene]

Can anyone actually point to a problem with the way the current non-Christian mods are doing their jobs? Or is this just good old-fashioned bigotry at work?

IMO what it boils down to is this:

#1-CF's statement is "Uniting All Christians as One Body".


#2-Anyone on staff should be on staff to fulfill that statement.

#3-non-Christians do not (for obvious reasons) agree with CF's mission statement thus they cant honestly work to fulfill it as they are not Christians.


If i went to an Atheist board who's mission statement was "Uniting All Atheists as One" and I saw their were Christians on staff, I would ask the same question- WHY??

 

[Lisa0315]

Ask Erwin, he constructed the poll. I had no part in the wording of the OP or the attached poll.

Steve

Well, my last understanding of polls, <cough> was that they were tools and were not binding. So, the whole 60/40 split that you just announced was a bit intimidating.

Lisa

 

[D'Ann]

I'm on the same side as TLF.

Be afraid. Be very afraid.

Oh, and the dollar store had a whole bunch of dried apricots. My bike ride was a stunning success.

Awesome news about the apricots. I need to go on a bike ride. It's a perfect day for it.

I went down to the crossroads, fell down on my knees.
I went down to the crossroads, fell down on my knees.
Asked the Lord above for mercy, save cf if you please.

- Robert Johnson

I went down to the crossroads, fell down on my knees and cried, "oh Lord", I'm a sinner in need of thy great mercy and love and forgiveness. Oh Father, hear my cry.

Forgive me for my sins for I'm not worthy, but only by your mercy and grace can I even hope for you to touch me while I'm down on my knees on a cross road to who knows where? Yes... Lord save us all, give us all your love and faith and hope.

I feel that there is a happy medium, although given the two options, I think that option two has it hands down.

This is a Christian site. If a Christian goes onto a Muslim site he know's he's going to be the minority. Same thing here.

If you don't want to be a member of this CHRISTIAN site, then leave. Go join IIDB and complain, for all I care.

It's time for the Christians to take back Christian Forums.

I don't want anyone to leave. I am really hoping and praying for a miracle where all of us can find peace here and sanctity and goodness.

Also, someone asked on the other thread what is to stop the Christian moderators from unwanted proslytizing non-Christians or using a heavy handedness with non-Christians? I know that in the past, all of us at one time or another have made mistakes and have hurt one another because of our humanity.

The number one key to reaching out is to care about the well being of the person in which we are communicating with. If they are not open to Christianity, then we should respect them and not push our faith on anyone who is openly rejecting it, especially, in the non-Christian forums. Part of being a true Christian is not preaching, but living a life that represents Christ and His will and way of loving, caring and respecting. Ultimately, if someone is sincerely open and searching, the Holy Spirit will guide them to another Christian and with prayer and the Holy Spirit's help, some will be converted, moderators do not need to proslytize because it's the Holy Spirit's job to do that. Imho, what Christian moderators are here to do is represent Christ in how we treat others, no matter what faith or religion a member may or may not be. And how do we represent Christ? With words of hope, positive feedback, comfort, encouragement. Reaching out to the needs of the members and praying... praying... and praying.

Most of staff was not out to harass non-Christians to proslytize them against their will. Most staff tried their best and continue to try their best to reach out and pray for members and give words of hope, faith and love and encouragement according to the needs of the members.

This is a Christian Website and being a Christian website, most of staff at one time viewed this ministry as a calling to selfless sacrifice and give of themselves to whomever came their way without knowing what faith a member was, or if they were of a faith.

I don't want to exclude anyone, but we do need safe guards and there should be room for all of us. But every community needs safe guards... rules.

I do believe that each group should have a safe haven and also there should be a central area where all can post. I also believe that if a Christian has a question regarding atheism or some other non-Christian religion or belief or philosophy, that they should be able to ask questions respectfully and also fellowship respectfully with any group of people on this forum. And in turn, if a non-Christian has questions and/or wants to fellowship, they should be welcomed to do so in any forum as well. The key factor here is fellowship, asking questions respectfully without trying to deconvert or convert. Let the Holy Spirit do the converting.

 

[Lisa0315]

Shall we now judge all Christians as incapable of treating us fairly because of the actions of a few?

Point to Sparklecat!

Lisa

 

[JimfromOhio]

Shall we now judge all Christians as incapable of treating us fairly because of the actions of a few?

My concern is biblically that CF should run without non-Christian's involvement of the administration. For a long time, I am for the non-Christians to moderate the non-Christian sections however, based on some exteme's attittude, I am thinking twice.

 

[intricatic]

Can an atheist (without God) change their belief? They cannot no more than a person can change their skin color. It is bigotry by definition.

Lisa

No it's not. No Christian ministry would allow an atheist into their leadership unless it had caved into relativism entirely and ceased promoting an actual alternative world view.

 

[ScottBot]

Can an atheist (without God) change their belief? They cannot no more than a person can change their skin color. It is bigotry by definition.

Lisa

I reiterate the question I've already reiterated about 4 times in this thread.

What is the name and stated purpose of this site again?

 

[Debi1967]

Shall we now judge all Christians as incapable of treating us fairly because of the actions of a few?

I believe that charge has already been made in this thread sparklecat please don't reinforce it ?

 

[ScottBot]

No it's not. No Christian ministry would allow an atheist into their leadership unless it had caved into relativism entirely and ceased promoting an actual alternative world view.

Those would be the Universalist Unitarians. Second star to the right, straight on til morning.

 

[sparklecat]

#3-non-Christians do not (for obvious reasons) agree with CF's mission statement thus they cant honestly work to fulfill it as they are not Christians.

Whoever said we don't agree with CF's mission statement? I think it'd be a positive thing, and am for it.