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Perhaps. Which is why staff accountability is a fundamental necessity.
It doesn't have to be either/or. It can be the best of both.
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Perhaps. Which is why staff accountability is a fundamental necessity.What was extreme was the certain cabals of like minded Mods who basically performed the Inquisition of members (and even other Mods) who did not toe their brand of Christianity.
I'd wager 90% of the problems with the old CF were directly attributable to this.
If you agree with the assertion that this should be run like a Christian site, why are you promoting values and systems which are inconsistent with Christian values and completely consistent with bigotry?
BTW, this isn't a church. It's an on-line forum. When people attempt to run churches the way you suggest, they end up splitting off into new denominations because some want total control over others and the others end up leaving. Christianity currently has over 38,000 separate denominations and apparently, Christians still haven't learned a thing from that. You're forcing the continual division and fracturing of Christianity and still you persist.
It isn't really the unbelievers that have been mistreated the most here. Where I have seen people hurt, and hurt repeatedly is in the margins. Those who are not Christian enough by forum standards, they are the ones who have had their private lives scrutinized, their faith questioned, and their beliefs slammed. It's been a steady stream for as long as I can recall, some people being truly hurt by the process.
This site at the moment is at a cross-roads, and can go either way. It can either become:
1. A safe social community site with a heavy and strong Christian influence (with the vision being to offer a safe online community, and a secondary vision being to allow Christians to outreach to non-Christians) - which will allow for a name change;
OR
2. Return to a more restricted Christians-only site with a heavy emphasis on uniting mainstream Christians only with a less emphasis on outreach, in which case we keep the name.
Why do you as an ATHEIST KEEP telling me and everyone else here that we are bad Christians when you are not even Christian and do not even believe in God to begin with.... That is manipulation of the highest and most derrogatory nature to use someone's own beliefs against them for personal gainIf you agree with the assertion that this should be run like a Christian site, why are you promoting values and systems which are inconsistent with Christian values and completely consistent with bigotry?
BTW, this isn't a church. It's an on-line forum. When people attempt to run churches the way you suggest, they end up splitting off into new denominations because some want total control over others and the others end up leaving. Christianity currently has over 38,000 separate denominations and apparently, Christians still haven't learned a thing from that. You're forcing the continual division and fracturing of Christianity and still you persist.
Perhaps. Which is why staff accountability is a fundamental necessity.
It doesn't have to be either/or. It can be the best of both.
Why do you as an ATHEIST KEEP telling me and everyone else here that we are bad Christians when you are not even Christian and do not even believe in God to begin with.... That ios manipulation of the highest and most derrogatory nature to use someone's own beliefs against them for personal gain
I agree with what he is saying. MY only point is non christian mods. Sorry, but that IS an issue. Not just with me, but a few others. I have no problems with anything else really...at least not that matters that I can over look it.This is why we need to inclusive of non-Christians! They, who are apart from us, can sometimes see us more clearly than we can see ourselves!
Lisa
I disagree to the extent that I don't think the Wiki system was working and the mods appeared to be overstressed at lack of authority to control the discussion. It wasn't working. On the other hand, implimentation of the system was more than a little rushed and several good suggestions for modification have been fielded. The prospects for making the Wiki system work have not yet been explored.It's only been in operation a short while. It seemed to be working far better than the prior version.
No, I'd much prefer that you take a moment and recognize that you're claiming to believe one thing but insisting on practicing another. And I'm not calling you a bigot. I'm simply showing you that the system you're promoting is one of bigotry by any recognized standard. So don't get mad, get enlightened.I know I'm supposed to rise up in anger, but I get what you're doing now, so getting angry won't happen. If calling me a bigot helps you convince yourself you're right, you have at it.
I've never suggested that CF stop utilizing true Christian values. There would be no point because it never has. It's used dictatorial values consistent with pure bigotry. I'm suggesting that it lives up to what it claims. It claims to be a "community" which promotes "Christian values". But it has no credible claim to being a community when the members are under the thumb of a few select Christians and as long as it promotes inequality and intolerance, it's not practicing Christian values.There is middle ground to be had. It's as simple as that. You've no business telling people they don't understand Christian values. Haven't you been railing against CF for doing precisely that?
You're only using those labels because there's no logical argument against what I'm saying. Yet you don't want to admit that I'm right, so you just apply labels. If you think I'm wrong, then demonstrate that I'm wrong. But you can't. And you can't because I'm right.Stop using rhetoric and hyperbole, and I'll be able to stop calling you on it. Less misery for both of us.
OK I read it all.
And when this choice has been made, how long will it be before the next change, and the next...and so on...
I see nothing here I want to vote for.
A safe social christian community site with the vision being to offer a safe online community allowing Christians to outreach to non-Christians - in which case we keep the name.
Option one denies Christ. Option two disobeys Him. I cannot support the poll as written, so I abstain from voting.
Why do you as an ATHEIST KEEP telling me and everyone else here that we are bad Christians when you are not even Christian and do not even believe in God to begin with.... That is manipulation of the highest and most derrogatory nature to use someone's own beliefs against them for personal gain
I actually think everyone who has called for a third option, with a mixture of the two, are in more agreement than we realise. The extreme opinions always garner more attention and derail the discussion, but ignore those, and the voices requesting a middle ground where no-one is mistreated make up the bulk of the people who have posted.On this we agree.
THe site name itself creates the presupposition that this site is intended for Christians to talk about Christian stuff without the constant interuption of "God is a myth and the bible is great big fairy tale."
Is everyone deliberatley being obtuse? I said NOTHING about atheist coming etc. I KNOW they have been here. THAT IS NOT the problem. READ what I just wrote...them being here is NOT the problem. RULING over CHRISTIAN areas IS. GET it now?They can't which is why they are not applying for Theology or Congregational staff positions. This whole "The Atheists are coming" in my opinion is dramatic, over the top, and exaggerated.
The atheists have been here and I for one hope they remain.
I have learned more about being a Christian from atheists than from believers here at CF.
Lisa
Christ doesn't appear or disappear based on a name.I don't want to remove Christ from this website by taking away Christian from its name.
Please continue voting in the poll in this thread.
Ok people; we're coming up on 800 posts here, and when the thread hits 1000, it'll be automatically locked, along with the poll. I've set up a thread here:
http://www.christianforums.com/t5790893-at-crossroads-cfs-vision-discussion-thread.html
for discussion of the poll options. Please only post in that thread so that the poll may remain open. Any posts in here after this one will be moved over.
Please feel free to discuss this issue in this thread.
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