At Crossroads -- Cf's Vision Discussion Thread - Please Vote in Poll Thread

[Lisa0315]

We are also called to be apart from the world, and not be equally yoked with non-believers. If this is a CHRISTIAN site, then that should be the case. Otherwise change the entire site name to OpenForums, and I'll gladly give you my moderator status and I will migrate to where I can openly converse with others who believe as I do.

Do you work with non-Christians? If so, you should quit your job immediately.

There is a difference in being yoked with an unbeliever and working with them here on CF. Being yoked means a partnership with, not a limited partnership, but a lifetime one such as marriage. It does not mean we cannot be governed or work with those who do not believe as we do.

Lisa

 

[KerrMetric]

You are mistaken.

There was abuse before, yes. The old system wasn't working. However, neither is the new system. .

It's only been in operation a short while. It seemed to be working far better than the prior version.

 

[TheDerek]

The proposed changes ARE the happy medium. Have you ever spent any time in the General Apologetics section? If you have, I suggest you pay it another visit. Things in there are running more smoothly now than at any other time I've seen. One extreme would be total control by Christians. That's what we had, though the practices were anything but consistent with Christian values. The other extreme would be total control by non-Christians and no one has ever suggested that. What was suggested was placing the control over the site in the hands of the membership -- it's called "democracy".

I disagree with you here. Having non-Christians as moderators of a Christian board is totally extreme! This is not a secular site! And the extreme on the other end would be having just Conservative Catholics mod the site, or something of the sort! I've been on staff a long time and know that we do all we can to have a ballance!

There is more to being a Christian site than putting people who identify themselves as Christians in charge. Many people think they believe in Christian values until they're asked to practice them. Many people think they agree with American ideals until asked to practice them. It's true that CF has been under the dictatorial rule of those who identify themselves as Christians but there can be no valid claim to the idea that they utilized or practiced Christian values in the decisions they made or the way non-Christians have been treated.

Pull the log out of your eye before pointing to the speck in mine.

The same advice could be sent your direction. If you don't understand the difference between a site that claims to be Christian and one which is attempting to instill and practice Christian values, then you're time would likely be better spent ~elsewhere~.

The same advice has been sent my way. I let CF for 3 months until God called me back to this CHRISTIAN site.

They never had it. Christians are people who practice Christian values such as tolerance, patience, equality and a true recognition of the value in everyone, regardless of their beliefs. CF has never operated under such principles and when it is said that it's going to start, the only people we see objecting are the very ones claiming to be Christians.

You can't have a Christian site if you think the key is to abandon Christian values -- no matter who runs it.

You point to tolerance. Tolerance is not a Christian value! We need to be intolerant! If we tolerate sin we are ignoring God's call for rightousness! Because this is a Christian Site we need to have Christian Values. Christ has called us to love each other, but that doesn't mean we need to be tollerant of sin and sinful ideals!

 

[GreenMunchkin]

I can present examples to support my claims. You've presented nothing but words like "rhetoric" and "hyperbole", probably because that's the only thing you have going for your assertions.

Are you attempting to claim that you don't want CF the way you want it? Of course we each want it as we want it. The biggest difference is that I want to share under and umbrella of equality and you want complete inequality where you're in control and others are beneath you.

It's called "bigotry". If you identify with it, perhaps it would make a good tag-line.

I know I'm supposed to rise up in anger, but I get what you're doing now, so getting angry won't happen. If calling me a bigot helps you convince yourself you're right, you have at it.

There is middle ground to be had. It's as simple as that. You've no business telling people they don't understand Christian values. Haven't you been railing against CF for doing precisely that?

Stop using rhetoric and hyperbole, and I'll be able to stop calling you on it. Less misery for both of us.

 

[Goodchild]

The only thing I have worthwhile to say is this.

For the last three weeks I began to feel like I could trust christians and maybe even christianity again. I actually started listening to someone who's christian opinions I value highly and gave them serious consideration ... enough to consider even trying going to a service one more time.

Over the last day i've discovered that I was only fooled one more time. My friend is just a good person, it has nothing to do with their beliefs.

I have never been as far away from religion as I am today. If your goal is to preach the gospel and draw the unbeliever to Christ ... you've failed utterly and miserably.

I have nothing more to say to any of you than that. Peace.

 

[Sothron]

I voted for option #2 because it said it is a return to the old forum rules.

Personally I would trash all this wiki nonsense, have simple and basic rules for every board including rules on faith icons and Christian restricted boards BUT keeping some new things like being able to publically see mod actions and reported posts.

 

[MartinM]

I disagree with you here. Having non-Christians as moderators of a Christian board is totally extreme!

Perhaps you could be the first person to point to an unacceptable decision made by one of the current non-Christian mods, then.

 

[Beastt]

You totally ignored any points that he made... and yes I agree with

If you agree with the assertion that this should be run like a Christian site, why are you promoting values and systems which are inconsistent with Christian values and completely consistent with bigotry?

BTW, this isn't a church. It's an on-line forum. When people attempt to run churches the way you suggest, they end up splitting off into new denominations because some want total control over others and the others end up leaving. Christianity currently has over 38,000 separate denominations and apparently, Christians still haven't learned a thing from that. You're forcing the continual division and fracturing of Christianity and still you persist.

 

[JimfromOhio]

I am going to "sit out" and watch. I have expressed my thoughts and beliefs.

 

[kimber1]

The mean people.

oh, they're the ones who suck right? *points to title *

 

[Hentenza]

I can present examples to support my claims. You've presented nothing but words like "rhetoric" and "hyperbole", probably because that's the only thing you have going for your assertions.

Are you attempting to claim that you don't want CF the way you want it? Of course we each want it as we want it. The biggest difference is that I want to share under and umbrella of equality and you want complete inequality where you're in control and others are beneath you.

It's called "bigotry". If you identify with it, perhaps it would make a good tag-line.

What kind of umbrella of equality are you looking for? This is a Christian website not a secular website. I welcome you to read, ask questions, and debate in an area designed for that. But you can't moderate or debate in a theology, congregational, or Christian fellowship forum. So I don't understand what you are referring to as equality.

 

[GreenMunchkin]

It's only been in operation a short while. It seemed to be working far better than the prior version.

Only for some people. Just like the last system. Which is why neither are the way to carry on.

 

[Brimshack]

It's beginning to occur to me that a rather large number of the conservatives on the site seem unaware of the number of personal abuses that have occured over the years, largely as a result of efforts to enforce a vision of what is and is not proper on a Christian message board. Which brings to mind another point, the sectarian squabbling is hardly new since the reforms. If it looks that way it is only because people are speaking out that have been silent for years.

It isn't really the unbelievers that have been mistreated the most here. Where I have seen people hurt, and hurt repeatedly is in the margins. Those who are not Christian enough by forum standards, they are the ones who have had their private lives scrutinized, their faith questioned, and their beliefs slammed. It's been a steady stream for as long as I can recall, some people being truly hurt by the process.

It's eaasy enough to say you have standards; it's even easy enough to say non-Christians shouldn't get to post here or run that. The problem comes in that once you say that, you have to define the terms, and once you do that someone gets stuck in the grey zone where their fate rests in the politics of the forum. Someone who believes themselves to be a Christian is going to get told no. Maybe, it'll happen because they were wrong about what it means to be a Christian and maybe it'll happen because someone else is wrong about it and that person has more authority than they do.

Either way, it's a vast improvement to say you just aren't going to play those games at all.

 

[KerrMetric]

What was extreme was the certain cabals of like minded Mods who basically performed the Inquisition of members (and even other Mods) who did not toe their brand of Christianity.

I'd wager 90% of the problems with the old CF were directly attributable to this.

 

[Debi1967]

Every set of rule changes here has brought about more and more changes that were indeed needed to be addressed.... This system was supposedly going to take care the lengthy rules we had and indeed we are already working on a newer version of the rules as we speak to add more to them because of issues that have come up and when more issues come up more will be added until we have the same amount if not more than we had before and it will just as restrictive only this time in different ways......

Nobody here is perfect and if you think you are then I hate to tell you an honest truth but you are sorely mistaken .... if that burst anyone's bubble then I am sorry .....

 

[ScottBot]

So if your a Christian, and hold to core values, your a bigot.........hey, I'm a bigot then............

Sticks and stones will break my bones.....

Am I tolerant of other people. Anyone who knows my history can be my witness. Am I tolerant of ideas and beliefs? Ditto.

I accept the notion that anyone can and should be able to post here, with certain constraints. Atheists, buddists, pagans, Rastafarians, etc... have no standing to teach Christians anything on a CHRISTIAN site. Look at the freakin site name, for the love of Mary. THe site name itself creates the presupposition that this site is intended for Christians to talk about Christian stuff without the constant interuption of "God is a myth and the bible is great big fairy tale." If there is such a great demand for a completely open forum for people to talk about all things religious and mundane, then buy a server and a domain name, get a copy of vBulletin, and start your own bloody website and make your own rules.

 

[Lisa0315]

The only thing I have worthwhile to say is this.

For the last three weeks I began to feel like I could trust christians and maybe even christianity again. I actually started listening to someone who's christian opinions I value highly and gave them serious consideration ... enough to consider even trying going to a service one more time.

Over the last day i've discovered that I was only fooled one more time. My friend is just a good person, it has nothing to do with their beliefs.

I have never been as far away from religion as I am today. If your goal is to preach the gospel and draw the unbeliever to Christ ... you've failed utterly and miserably.

I have nothing more to say to any of you than that. Peace.

The best of Christianity and the worst of Christianity has been brought to the forefront in the last several weeks. Please do not be discouraged. This is a time for separating the chaff from the wheat. The weeds are allowed to grow up with the wheat but will be removed before the final harvest. Do not be discouraged by what you see here. Know that God is in control, ALWAYS. He is allowing some of the negative things to come out in the open so that those who are participating may be rebuked and brought back into fellowhship.

Love in Christ,

Lisa

 

[flicka]

First, Christians can't discount non believers since many of them are ex Christians themselves. So saying a non believer can't possible know anything about or define Christianity is silly.

Second, Christians here argue more with other believers than with non believers anyway. If you are worrying about an atheist takeover then you are worrying about the wrong thing.

Third, being a forum mod doesn't have to involve teaching or leading or being in authority. A mod should follows the rules laid out for them on to keep things running smoothly. They should NOT be "in charge" of anything...like any public servant they work for the members and should be accountable. In fact, mod involvement should be kept to a minimum and only invoked when trolls or other detrimental elements are present. This isn't a real life job that holds power over anyone, although many seem to think it is or should be.

Finally, I too am going to sit back and see how things unfold. I believe Erwin is stressed to the max and ready to do anything to shut people up. Unfortunately it wasn't horrible the way it was, which is the only reason he tried to change things in the first place. This place can't go back to that no matter what anyone wants because if it does I think he would just as soon pull the plug on the whole thing.

 

[intricatic]

All I has to say is that Erwin is has a lotta readin' aheada him!

 

[ScottBot]

Do you work with non-Christians? If so, you should quit your job immediately.

There is a difference in being yoked with an unbeliever and working with them here on CF. Being yoked means a partnership with, not a limited partnership, but a lifetime one such as marriage. It does not mean we cannot be governed or work with those who do not believe as we do.

Lisa

Can you please tell me what the name of this website is?