At Crossroads -- Cf's Vision Discussion Thread - Please Vote in Poll Thread

TasManOfGod said:

Erwin -can you give guarentees that members wont be targeted because they believe the Bible differently to a few staff

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LOL.

That never worked before.

KerrMetric said:

LOL.

That never worked before.

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yep it sure is funny

Perhaps we should do this just as we would a regular church. A church's doors are open to everyone; there is no segregation between Christian and Non-Christian. However, with that said, not everyone gets to speak in church; things are done orderly and decently.

I don't know if we have the technology to do this, but I would suggest the following...

1. Every current member of a particular congregrational forum should vote for "X" number of Moderators.

2. After the Mods are selected, everybody else in that congretational forum will lose their icon.

3. Then, the Mods will identify the members of the congregation who have demonstrated orthodoxy in their respective posting. These persons will regain their icons.

4. Everyone with an icon can start threads and reply as often as they like, without any limitation other than normal rules of decorum.

5. Persons without an icon will not be able to start threads, but they will be able to respond to postings; however the number of their responses (per thread) will be limited.

6. If such a person without an icon wishes to join the congregation, said person should apply to the moderators, who in turn will vote to grant such a person an icon, with all the benefits running appurtenant thereto.

7. OPTIONAL EXTRA --- Multiple icons. If a person can earn the respect of persons from different congregations, then he or she should have multiple icons.

Don't forget my polls in the wiki rules section. Off to bed now.

TheMatmanReturns said:

Perhaps we should do this just as we would a regular church. A church's doors are open to everyone; there is no segregation between Christian and Non-Christian. However, with that said, not everyone gets to speak in church; things are done orderly and decently.

I don't know if we have the technology to do this, but I would suggest the following...

1. Every current member of a particular congregrational forum should vote for "X" number of Moderators.

2. After the Mods are selected, everybody else in that congretational forum will lose their icon.

3. Then, the Mods will identify the members of the congregation who have demonstrated orthodoxy in their respective posting. These persons will regain their icons.

4. Everyone with an icon can start threads and reply as often as they like, without any limitation other than normal rules of decorum.

5. Persons without an icon will not be able to start threads, but they will be able to respond to postings; however the number of their responses (per thread) will be limited.

6. If such a person without an icon wishes to join the congregation, said person should apply to the moderators, who in turn will vote to grant such a person an icon, with all the benefits running appurtenant thereto.

7. OPTIONAL EXTRA --- Multiple icons. If a person can earn the respect of persons from different congregations, then he or she should have multiple icons.

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Way to complex.

KerrMetric said:

Way to complex.

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Unless you are speaking in technical (computer) terms, its no more complex than a business meeting at a church.

GreenMunchkin said:

Erwin, you've stacked the decks already. Your descriptions are loaded in favour of one option, straight off the bat.

Further, there's middle ground to be had, and you know it. Neither of those options are hugely palatable. Why are you still fostering an "us" and "them" dynamic?

It's possible to be a Christian Forum and have outreach. In fact, if there isn't outreach, it's not Christian. Your premise implies it has to be one or the other. That's incorrect.

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I agree. So, I didn't vote.

Erwin said:

None of that would change - this discussion is more about the name and the vision.

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Thank you.

Jim47 said:

Option 2 should not exclude unbelievers but only return this site to its Christian roots. Afterall, witnessing to unbelievers should be our central focus.

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Yes, many areas of the forum are being used by other people to present their non-Christian message.

We have already seen on the Non-Christian Religion forum site, belonging to CF, people coming away from the faith in Christ and converting to Islam (bostonlass) and Marxim (bharma).

As I have mentioned in my blog on the site, I think the Non-Christian Religion forum site should be removed. It is not God's will for us to even mention other gods as according to scripture in Deuteronomy and Exodus. Secondly, this site causes Christian's to doubt their faith, and also causes some Christians to err, and become hateful and angry with those they are trying to win for Christ, or the non-Christians on the site just blatantly causing mischief. This is not God's will.

There are some sites you cannot post messages on (Jeish and islamic) about Christianity. They intend to guard their flock, so much more should we be guarding our flock, when we have the real message of Jesus Christ's saving power of redemption.

Instead when we make such claims we are scoffed at, and when even rebuking a person for apostasy, we are reprimanded by moderators. Policitcal correctness on this board should not be tolerated.

Beastt said:

I think if it weren't for the fact that the old CF was modeled on the same kind of values which lead to the Inquisition and the Crusades -- a distinctly extremist and out-dated system, it wouldn't appear that the new system is such an extreme change. Anytime you attempt to move from systems based on those found in the Dark Ages to something more akin to modern democracy, the two will seem to represent the extremes of the spectrum. That's likely because one focuses on equality and control in the hands of the people and the other focuses on dictatorial systems with the control firmly in the hands of a select few who are allowed to hide their activities and violate the very rules they're supposed to be enforcing. The only reason anyone ever has the need to hide what they're doing is when they know it's wrong and would be received very poorly by the masses.

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And you said all that so your point would be what?

Do you think Erwin is right or wrong in making people choose only between two options?

Erwin said:

Hi members

This poll, started by drstevej, was PMed to me recently. I think that it does make a good point and I wanted it moved out of the Conservative Christians forum to the Announcement forum to gather input from other members as well.

The issue here is whether CF's name should be changed and its vision modified to reflect its current framework.

This site at the moment is at a cross-roads, and can go either way. It can either become:

1. A safe social community site with a heavy and strong Christian influence (with the vision being to offer a safe online community, and a secondary vision being to allow Christians to outreach to non-Christians) - which will allow for a name change;

OR

2. Return to a more restricted Christians-only site with a heavy emphasis on uniting mainstream Christians only with a less emphasis on outreach, in which case we keep the name.

Bear in mind that options 1 and 2 are both valid - there is a place for either forums.

I think that at this moment members are frustrated because CF is halfway between options 1 and 2, so members are confused as we have a vision that belongs to option 2 but a setup that is more like option 1.

Therefore, I think we need to make a decision.

I'm going to leave this up to the community. I've extended the above poll to 3rd of August.

I will listen to the members here, and will defer to the final decision.

Please feel free to discuss this issue in this thread.


MOD NOTE:
Please discuss this issue in this thread instead so that the poll may remain open.

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I voted for Option #1. Even though the name of this forum is 'Christian Forums', I don't believe that it's very Christian to restrict non-Christians from certain parts of the forum. This should not be a 'Christians only' forum where non-Christians are frowned upon; I have many friends here that are atheists or beloong to other non-Christian religions, and their viewpoints are just as valid as the Christians'.

To those who claim that CF should "be proud to remain the Christian Forums", I say: why is it any skin off your nose if an atheist posts in a denominational forum? They may ask questions that shake up your belief system and cause you to think. They may bring up points that would have been otherwise overlooked. Let's not become so fundamentalist about "Christian" forums that we become elitist. There is nothing wrong with non-Christians posting and fellowshipping here. They should be welcomed with open arms and friendship rather than restricted to one part of the forum. I vote to keep CF open, and I will defend that choice if necessary.
Ringo

AlHannah said:

Yes, many areas of the forum are being used by other people to present their non-Christian message.

We have already seen on the Non-Christian Religion forum site, belonging to CF, people coming away from the faith in Christ and converting to Islam (bostonlass) and Marxim (bharma).

As I have mentioned in my blog on the site, I think the Non-Christian Religion forum site should be removed. It is not God's will for us to even mention other gods as according to scripture in Deuteronomy and Exodus. Secondly, this site causes Christian's to doubt their faith, and also causes some Christians to err, and become hateful and angry with those they are trying to win for Christ, or the non-Christians on the site just blatantly causing mischief. This is not God's will.

There are some sites you cannot post messages on (Jeish and islamic) about Christianity. They intend to guard their flock, so much more should we be guarding our flock, when we have the real message of Jesus Christ's saving power of redemption.

Instead when we make such claims we are scoffed at, and when even rebuking a person for apostasy, we are reprimanded by moderators. Policitcal correctness on this board should not be tolerated.

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I agree about dropping the Non Christian site.

A few pages back, Erwin asked about what types of changes we could see at CF. Since he asked, I am going to state what I feel should be the changes made.

1. Return the Christians Only area that encompasses ALL Christians... including the unorthodox Christians... that might not be a popular item, but I personally believe a person who believes Jesus is God is a Christian, who am I to judge their heart?

2. No forced icon changes. If a person states they are Christian, allow them to carry a Christian icon... encompass into the rules a rule stating that if a person talks against the Bible within the CO area, make it so it is a rule violation to do so.

3. Return the Open threads, where a person can choose whether or not they want to have the thread open to everyone.

4. Within some of the CO areas, allow for a subforum where everyone for the entire site can post. For example, have a CO men's discussion and an everyone men's discussion. If people are afraid the site would grow too large, then have only certain areas have a subforum.

5. No non-Christians on staff, however make it so they do have a voice. Have a non-Christian team possibly where they have access to post in all staff forums in which they can voice their concerns for the non-Christians. Also, continue with them being able to be on the armory team and other privileges we all have here.

6. Continue with the transparency. I was against this at first, but I think being able to see the reports and being able to participate in them is a good thing.. possibly make some restrictions so the reports do not get out of hand.

7. Have a set of rules that cannot change on a whim.. in other words, get a rid of the wiki. Condense the rules and don't have so many of them.

8. Bring back the warnings and infractions, but make them all appealable. If a person is causing problems, they are not going to learn by continuously getting warned, they unfortunately need consequences.

9. Have a conciliator team made up of unbiased members that will have access to the staff forums and regular forums. They will fight for equality and deal with conflicts within the staff as well as with the members... basically have staff/staff conflict resolution and staff/member conflict resolution. This team would be made up of anyone that can fulfill the job, and there will be one or several conciliators assigned to particular teams. They would also make sure things are being done ethically and the policies are being adhered to.

10. Within the appeals process, have a special team that listens to the appeals. This people would be the ones that understand the policies and procedures very well. This way, they will not be biased towards a team.. like the administrators of each team could have been while listening to appeals before.

11. Keep the Congregational areas open to everyone for those that are curious about the different denominations. Of course close that area off to debating, but people that are interested of any faith or non-faith can go there and discuss or ask questions about that denomination.

And if people do not like my suggestion of having a CO only area, then I would suggest having an open to everyone area, and then on the important forums, such as men's discussion have a CO area.. so there are not as many CO areas, but there are some, just for us Christians who want a special area just for us.

These are my proposals, I know there are a lot of them.. and I have given this some thought before, if you can't tell.

I think with the right amount of motivation CF could actually become a great place to be, like it once was... and I am NOT referring to the old system. God bless.

It may not be the popular vote but I'm going with #1, for one reason only. Please know that because I love my brother's and sisters in Christ, I would like to vote for #2, but I feel really convicted about it, and this is why:

I believe that #2 is disobedient to G-d, and minimalizes what Christ has called us to do.

We are called to be witnesses to those who do not know Him. We are called to be fishers of men. How can we do this on a Christian Only forum?

I realize that we all want a Christian Only section and also an outreach section. I believe we can have both, but that option is not available for voting. Since it's not, I cannot vote for #2. You see.... we have churches to congregate with one another. CF should be about more than Christians getting together. It should be about bringing Christ to those who know Him not.

15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. ~
Jesus in Mark 16:15-16


I hope I'm not upsetting anybody. I don't want to upset anybody. I just personally feel convicted when I consider voting for #2. That doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with anybody who did vote for #2. This is just why I must vote for #1.

Crazy Liz said:

CF did create some ghettoes. Some of the Congregation forums were created as ghettoes for people not wanted in existing forums. "Welcome to your new home! We don't want you in our home, so we've built you this shiny new ghetto." This thread isn't the first time the comparison has been made.

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Is that true? Incredibly elitist of some on this forum that instead of welcoming those of ALL stripes to their part of the forum, they would create "ghettos" for non-Christians. That's not the way an online forum - especially a supposedly Christian one - should operate.
Ringo

Adiya said:

It may not be the popular vote but I'm going with #1, for one reason only. Please know that because I love my brother's and sisters in Christ, I would like to vote for #2, but I feel really convicted about it, and this is why:

I believe that #2 is disobedient to G-d, and minimalizes what Christ has called us to do.

We are called to be witnesses to those who do not know Him. We are called to be fishers of men. How can we do this on a Christian Only forum?

I realize that we all want a Christian Only section and also an outreach section. I believe we can have both, but that option is not available for voting. Since it's not, I cannot vote for #2. You see.... we have churches to congregate with one another. CF should be about more than Christians getting together. It should be about bringing Christ to those who know Him not.

15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. ~
Jesus in Mark 16:15-16


I hope I'm not upsetting anybody. I don't want to upset anybody. I just personally feel convicted when I consider voting for #2. That doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with anybody who did vote for #2. This is just why I must vote for #1.

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Amen sister!

TheMatmanReturns said:

Perhaps we should do this just as we would a regular church. A church's doors are open to everyone; there is no segregation between Christian and Non-Christian.

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Uhhhh I don’t know about your Church, but mine and many others don’t allow non-Christians into ministry positions. Allowing anyone to become mods, admins etc… is just the same as allowing deacons, elders and pastors to be atheists, witches and satanists. This is something we just don’t vote on at Church and especially open voting where the atheists, witches and satanists can influence the vote. What’s wrong with prayer, fasting and supplication to the LORD? He seems to give the right answers to those He puts to lead and that continue to hearken to his directions. I always though of CF as a ministry situation, where Christians can come to minister to one another and evangelize in the open forums as well, but who will be ministering to whom if it goes fully lukewarm? Just because many forums do not allow for non-Christians to participate in (though many do by simply saying that they are when they know they are not) how does it make CF any lass of an outreach? How is this restrictive while the other is deemed safe social?

I can see by the heavy spin on the poll OP definition which way the preferred direction is desired. Erwin, why don’t you just start a second forum site, man? Like www dot ThisIsNotCF. com.net.org.biz

I'm amused how this vote is playing out.

Purifying FLAME said:

I'm amused how this vote is playing out.

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Max!

Yeahhhhhh.....I'm not sure how I feel..... Maybe time for a donut break...