At Crossroads -- Cf's Vision Discussion Thread (2) - Please Vote in Poll Thread

[suzybeezy]

Doesn't the fact that many many people have quit their positions on staff and there are many others unhappy about the change give the notion that it is not a good thing? Doesn't the fact that Erwin has put it back on the table for a vote say that a mistake has been made.

I agree. I also pray that the Lord has been touching Erwin's heart and helping guide him back to putting this site on a Biblical foundation, one that will glorify the Lord Jesus Christ to strengthen and support Christians and bring lost lambs home. I pray that he sees not only that so many members oppose this change, but include weighing in the cost of so many loyal staff who resigned, particularly staffers who had been here for years.

 

[suzybeezy]

That would depend on the Staffer in question, now wouldn't it.

AngelAmidala, who had been on staff from nearly the beginning of Christian Forums (5 years +) who had been through thick and thin with Erwin, resigned. That speaks volumes!!!!!!

 

[+RubiesFire+]

Doesn't the fact that many many people have quit their positions on staff and there are many others unhappy about the change give the notion that it is not a good thing? Doesn't the fact that Erwin has put it back on the table for a vote say that a mistake has been made.

You're right.

Some like the way the "New Vision" is going, while others do not. Everyone has an opinion about the new CF, and no one is agreeing.

Yes, it's sad to see many of the Staff have quit their positions, and yes it's sad to see many members have walked away for good.

Either way, once this gets solved...one end will still not be happy. Each of us have a voice, and each of us want to be heard.....

Has anyone ever stopped and thought about what Christ is saying, or are we to busy bickering that WE cannot hear his voice?


*Even if this post comes back and I become a target. I don't care. I voiced my thoughts like everyone else.

 

[ScottBot]

AngelAmidala, who had been on staff from nearly the beginning of Christian Forums (5 years +) who had been through thick and thin with Erwin, resigned. That speaks volumes!!!!!!

It does for me, and she's not the only one.

 

[Lisa0315]

You're right.

Some like the way the "New Vision" is going, while others do not. Everyone has an opinion about the new CF, and no one is agreeing.

Yes, it's sad to see many of the Staff have quit their positions, and yes it's sad to see many members have walked away for good.

Either way, once this gets solved...one end will still not be happy. Each of us have a voice, and each of us want to be heard.....

Has anyone ever stopped and thought about what Christ is saying, or are we to busy bickering that WE cannot hear his voice?


*Even if this post comes back and I become a target. I don't care. I voiced my thoughts like everyone else.

I have not always agreed with the things you have said about new CF, but with this post, I agree 100%! Let us start listening to the voice of Christ!

Lisa

 

[Lindon Tinuviel]

AngelAmidala, who had been on staff from nearly the beginning of Christian Forums (5 years +) who had been through thick and thin with Erwin, resigned. That speaks volumes!!!!!!

People part ways. That's life. No matter how long she was here (I remember her from the LBMB), or what she'd been through previously, it doesn't mean that she's right this time.

She had her reasons, it's her choice to make, I wish her the best.


Certain others... well, this probably isn't the place to get into it.

 

[GenemZ]

And yet you should feel just the opposite. Take a moment and look at these two lists of values;


LIST ONE

• Selfishness
• Prejudice
• Bias
• Stinginess
• Elitism
• Inequality
• Injustice

LIST TWO

• Equal Sharing
• Caring
• Generosity
• Selflessness
• Friendship
• Equality
• Love
• Justice

Reminds me of the ideals praised in the book, "Animal Farm." ​

One can not legislate love. One can not legislate friendship. ​

Equality is an illusion. If there were such a thing as equality we would all be physicists. Or, we would all have an an IQ of 90. etc. It can not be legislated. ​

You are promoting a list of ideals that feeds on Utopian fantasy. Ideals that just will not work when immersed into the world of real people. Its a form of goody- two- shoes - legalism, that some throw over the heads of others as a means to induce guilt, as to gain the control of the situation they desire. The only hope of that list ever happening in areas on earth. is when all folks, and one's like yourself, truly turn to God's salvation. For only in Christ are all equal. Only when controlled by the grace of the Holy Spirit can love for all be manifested. ​

After all, everyone here would have to not be the way you complain about us being... if your list were to be workable. How can you expect us to follow your list? If we are the way you complain about us being? ​

So, what you just nailed to your Wittenberg door is no more than a guilt trip manipulation, list, demanding a level of righteousness for others that men in general can never achieve in reality. That is why Jesus had to die on the Cross. Because we never can truly be those things at all times while here on the earth. Yet? You act like it should be done, if we only put our minds to it.

Knowing God and his righteousness, and how he sees our righteousness, would take your list of "nice guy legalism" and throw it in the trash can where it belongs. For you do not comprehend the true nature of the fallen state of man. ​

th you!! Go away if you don't like it. You'll take what little I offer you, be it cruelty and inequality or a token spot in the corner and like it! Crazy non-Christian!!! Who do you think you are asking a Christian to treat you as an equal?!?"

Guilt manipulation. (Hell is boring by the way).

Ezekiel 21:23 (New International Version)​

"It will seem like a false omen to those who have sworn allegiance to him, but he will remind them of their guilt and take them captive."​

​

Inducing guilt is sometimes a great tool in trying to get your own way with others. I don't buy it because the Bible teaches us clearly the truth about the state of fallen man. Your's included.

Do not come to a Christian forum and demand you be treated on your secular humanism terms as being equal.

Why not start your own forum and show us how its to be done? Name it a Christian forum when you do.

Walking away from that weird force field that induces boredom and guilt..... In Christ, GeneZ​

 

[ChristianCenturion]

No. It means that those opposing have raised their voices and he is willing to let them be heard. They do not have the clear majority they want to claim - so . . . .

Just for clarification about this member's participation (myself)...

I voted for option number one.

I also gave a commentary or brief reasoning behind my vote and while there was ambiguity in the poll/opening post.

I could have just as easily voted for option number two, because I have reason(s) to do that as well.

The poll and circumstances being what they are, I personally don't find myself backing number one for necessarily the same reasons as others found in the list for number one.

I also don't necessarily find myself 'opposed' to reasons who have voted for number two.

There is a lot of specific missing that would (could) change my opinion(s) on this whole matter. So, basically I find the poll and items being considered without specifics of little value.

 

[Lindon Tinuviel]

Nuh uh, genez.

People may not all really be equal, but they should all be treated equally.

As for the rest of your post... nothing but a flame in Jesus' name.

 

[MeekOne]

[/list][/indent]

Reminds me of the ideals praised in the book, "Animal Farm." ​

One can not legislate love. One can not legislate friendship. ​

Equality is an illusion. If there were such a thing as equality we would all be physicists. Or, we would all have an an IQ of 90. etc. It can not be legislated. ​

You are living by a list of ideals that feeds on Utopian fantasy. Ideals that just will not work when immersed into the world of real people as they are without God. Its a form of goody- two- shoes, legalism that some hand over the heads of others as a means to induce guilt, as to gain the control of the situation they desire. The only hope of that happening in areas on earth is that folks like yourself turn to God's salvation. For only in Christ are all equal. ​

After all, everyone here would have to not be the way you complain about us being, if your list were to be workable. ​

So, what you nailed to your Wittenberg door is no more than just a guilt trip manipulation list, demanding a level of righteousness before others that men in general can never achieve in reality. That is why Jesus died on the Cross. Because we never can truly be those things at all times while here on the earth. Yet? You act like it can be done if we only put our minds to it. You're so naive. Like Chamberlain signing the peace accord with Hitler. ​

You think that list can be followed - as law - because you are naive. Knowing God and his righteousness, and how he sees our righteousness, would take your list of "nice guy legalism" and throw it in the trash can where it belongs. For you do not comprehend the fallen state of man. ​

Guilt manipulation. Drama queen tantrum. And, boring as hell. (Hell is boring by the way).

Ezekiel 21:23 (New International Version)​

"It will seem like a false omen to those who have sworn allegiance to him, but he will remind them of their guilt and take them captive."​

​

Inducing guilt is a great tool in trying to get your own way with others. Your whole aura seems to be geared towards that with Christians here. I don't buy it because the Bible teaches us clearly the truth about the state of fallen man. Your's included.

Now take your sad story some place else. Do not come to a Christian forum and demand you be treated on your secular humanism terms.

Why not start your own forum and show us how its to be done? Name it a Christian forum when you do.

Walking away from that weird force field that induces boredom and guilt..... In Christ, GeneZ​

Extremely well said.

Now, we will be accused of ganging up on him instead of trying to give him the unvarnished truth.

Very well said indeed.

 

[dignitized]

AngelAmidala, who had been on staff from nearly the beginning of Christian Forums (5 years +) who had been through thick and thin with Erwin, resigned. That speaks volumes!!!!!!

yea - its says the last remnants of Starchamber have finally been swept away. It says that her commitment was to a system and not to the vision or to erwin himself. It says that those who said her loyalties were to PG rather than anyone or anything else were right.

 

[Lindon Tinuviel]

Extremely well said.

Now, we will be accused of ganging up on him instead of trying to give him the unvarnished truth.

Very well said indeed.

Are you quite certain that you want to tie yourself to that flame, MeekOne?

 

[MeekOne]

Are you quite certain that you want to tie yourself to that flame, MeekOne?

Why is it so hard for you to understand tough love, Lindon Tinuviel? There was nothing but truth said there, unvarnished truth. In the words of Jack in A Few Good Men...you cannot handle the truth.

 

[WalksWithChrist]

Doesn't the fact that many many people have quit their positions on staff and there are many others unhappy about the change give the notion that it is not a good thing? Doesn't the fact that Erwin has put it back on the table for a vote say that a mistake has been made.

Well, staff was leaving in droves before 777. Now many of them are back. How about them?
I think Erwin is making a mistake acting like he is considering changing course so quickly and I have said so earlier today.
Patience is the key word!

AngelAmidala, who had been on staff from nearly the beginning of Christian Forums (5 years +) who had been through thick and thin with Erwin, resigned. That speaks volumes!!!!!!

I didn't know she quit. I like her. She took time to actually post and talk about an issue I had.

 

[Lisa0315]

Nuh uh, genez.

People may not all really be equal, but they should all be treated equally.

As for the rest of your post... nothing but a flame in Jesus' name.

I agree. He attacked the person not the post.

Lisa

 

[MeekOne]

I think Erwin is making a mistake acting like he is considering changing course so quickly and I have said so earlier today.
Patience is the key word!

Sorry, WWC, but I don't agree with you here.

I didn't know she quit. I like her. She took time to actually post and talk about an issue I had.

She was a great person.

 

[Lisa0315]

Why is it so hard for you to understand tough love, Lindon Tinuviel? There was nothing but truth said there, unvarnished truth. In the words of Jack in A Few Good Men...you cannot handle the truth.

Apparantly, I cannot handle the "truth" either.

Here is the thing...one can disagree and even pointedly. However, when the person is attacked instead of the post, it is by any reasonable definition, a flame. If the same thing had been said to you in a different context, would you consider it the "unvarnished" truth then?

Lisa

 

[MeekOne]

I agree. He attacked the person not the post.

Lisa

Apparantly, I cannot handle the "truth" either.

Here is the thing...one can disagree and even pointedly. However, when the person is attacked instead of the post, it is by any reasonable definition, a flame. If the same thing had been said to you in a different context, would you consider it the "unvarnished" truth then?

Lisa

Why is it when someone tells the truth about a situation, its called an attack? Yet these same people have the nerve to go around beating their chests for freedom of speech?

 

[Lisa0315]

Why is it when someone tells the truth about a situation, its called an attack? Yet these same people have the nerve to go around beating their chests for freedom of speach?

I understand that. However, there is a line between the poster and the post that should not be crossed. That same point could have been made without attacking the individual. That is all I am saying.

Lisa

 

[Beastt]

Again, it is all in the way that you see it. Not all Christians are as you portray they are. Just by your response, it is clear that you are confused as to Who Jesus really is.

You might wish to stop here for a moment and attempt to let pure honesty over-ride your unfounded certainty. Reality dictates that it may well be you how are confused as to who Jesus was or was not. The facts are most certainly not the way most Christians are groomed to see them.

If a forum claims to be Christian, it cannot be in name alone.

There is no basis for that in reality at all. Anyone can start a forum, claim it's Christian, and pursue any code of conduct they choose. This forum serves as an undeniable example that a forum can claim to be Christian and yet, show very little Christianity in the way it operates.

If it is a Christian forum, then it must be run by Christians.

You're making the very common mistake of confusing "Christian Forum" with "Christian's Forum". A forum can adhere to Christian values and codes of conduct and yet not have a single Christian in any kind of controlling role and still be a Christian forum. The problem here is that people are conflating conduct and values with ownership. Most of the Christians here are appealing to the name of the site as though it were "Christian's forum" -- a name showing ownership. And indeed, that's what this forum has been; a forum owned and operated by people who claim themselves to be Christian, yet steer vehemently away from Christian values and codes of conduct when they are asked to show their Christian side.

Otherwise, we would have people in power who think of Jesus just as you do, and it would be no different than any other fly by night site out there.

Perhaps you've not been to a lot of online forums but this one just happens to have what is arguably the worst reputation of any forum on the entire Internet. Other forums actually have special sections dedicated to the discussion of the militant and un-Christian methods and manners by which this forum is run. Some Christians seem to believe that God is in power. The vast majority here demonstrate all too clearly that they don't believe God has any power, or at the very least, that God would have no concern about a forum such as this. Otherwise, they wouldn't see it as so vital that they place themselves in roles of power over the forum and fight so hard to keep other good and well-mannered people out, just because they don't identify themselves as Christians.

That is not what us as Christians came here for.

So while this claims to be a community, it is clear in your remark here that you see only the Christians and their reason for being here as being of any importance. That once again shows that this is neither a Christian site or a community. It's just a bunch of people who like to talk and posture as Christians but who think that actual demonstration of Christian values is purely absurd.

It is time to stand up for this forum.

You still don't seem to understand. By "standing up" for this forum by locking others out, you're standing against everything a true Christian forum would hold as the most important of values. It's a bit like a food bank which refuses to give food to people for fear it will run out and then won't be a food bank anymore.

The time is now, and that is why we are so passionate about it.

You can't be passionate about having a Christian forum if you insist on avoiding Christian values. When you say that nonChristians can't have positions above the general membership, you're saying you're better than they are. Did Jesus run around saying he was better than everyone else; or did he mingle shoulder-to-shoulder, even with those he felt were the worst examples of humanity? Again, you talk the talk, but walking the walk is something you'll not even consider.

It is totally not that we want to push non-believers out. Quite the contrary. We are commissioned to reach folks like yourself, and wouldn't be true Christians if we didn't invite you in.

And therein lies your problem. You say you're trying to reach people "like me", then you tell me I'm not worthy to be a "real" member of this site. You're proclaiming that I'm inferior to you and that unless I adhere to your principles, (the same one's you're avoiding in your fight to keep the doors of acceptance closed to all nonChristians), that I can never be anything but inferior to you. You'll never convince anyone that you have a better system while you continue to demonstrate that your system causes you to believe that you're superior to everyone else. You are your own undoing.

However, putting non-believers in charge is a major mistake for this forum. Sharing the place is one thing, surrendering it is quite a different story all together.

You don't seem to understand the concepts of sharing and equality. If I tear the crust of my sandwich and hand it to you, am I really sharing or am I just discarding what I consider unworthy of my superiority? That's all you're really doing. You have special places where you lock nonChristians away, to keep us out of your hair in other areas, and so that you can proclaim to be sharing. That's not terribly different than inviting foster children in to share your home, then marching them down to the basement, locking the door behind them, refusing to mingle with them or allow them any say about anything in your household and then patting yourself on the back for being such a kind, sharing Christian.

You are clearly upset here and not seeing it as it really is. Maybe you should step back and look at it without all the emotion.

I've been here for over 3-year and I assure you, I am seeing it for what it is. NonChristians are always under the thumb of some militant fundamentalist Christian here. We have no voice and no way to speak out against the abuses we suffer. We're shoved off to the corner, allowed to speak only if our words are approved of by some self-appointed politician with a cross on a chain, and then told that we should be thankful.

Exposed as true Christians I believe. Jesus protected the church too.

You're making a mockery of the church, Jesus and the name of Christianity.