At Crossroads -- Cf's Vision Discussion Thread (2) - Please Vote in Poll Thread

Angel4Truth said:

Being honest and stating that you arent a believer and are not equipped in my opinion to judge those inside the church doesnt mean i do not welcome you being here at CF but I can only welcome you as a visiting guest the same as I would welcome you in my local church and I would object just the same too if you started demanding to be thought equally a member and have the same rights in that church as the believers there when you arent in the body of Christ.

I also more then welcome you to join the body of Christ and the price of membership in that body has already been paid for you by Jesus Christ.

If you wont receive your membership though according to the terms of membership its not because the christians here will not welcome you to be a member of the body but its because we cannot welcome you into a body you reject.

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sparklecat said:

Sorry for the miscommunication; I'm not talking about you specifically, I'm talking about the general attitude and feeling in GA, which I explained a bit earlier.

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Well, when people from opposite ends of the spectrum collide, what do you expect? I wasn't there, so I don't know what you mean, but I'm pretty sure Atheist and Christians alike both contributed to the clashing.

Probably not, but regardless, me going to an Atheist forum would require having certain motivations.

What's an Atheist's motivation for coming to CF?

If he/she wants to argue, then go away; nobody wants to argue. If he/she wants to learn about Christ, then I'd welcome you in open arms.

Again, what are your motivations?

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...maybe they just like hanging out here?
tulc(didn't see the motivation question when he signed up here at CF)

Because there are non-believers (such as yourself) attacking our beliefs, when you should be defending your own.

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Who was attacking your beliefs? Was it in the part of the forum where non-believers were supposed to ask questions?
tulc(hung out a lot in GA over the years)

I find it funny being accused that we are not using our resouces in the best way. UMM.. How would you know that the internet was Gods best way to reach people? Show me that it wasn't His intent through Erwin to unite all donominations in communicating with each other, instead of locked up in different churches on Sunday, but the rest of the week, we barely know each other exist.

tulc said:

Who was attacking your beliefs? Was it in the part of the forum where non-believers were supposed to ask questions?
tulc(hung out a lot in GA over the years)

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Other parts of the forum (there are a lot of sub-forums, ya know).

Other parts of the forum (there are a lot of sub-forums, ya know).

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Ahhh! Yes I was aware of that. the question was which of the forums were you in where people attacked you?
tulc(just curious)

tulc said:

Ahhh! Yes I was aware of that. the question was which of the forums were you in where people attacked you?
tulc(just curious)

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Not me personally, but through the Christian Teens section (which I know, obviously draws immature people).

Other than that, there have been demands made by non-Believers to have evidence of our faith when this is a Christian forum. If anybody should have evidence for what they believe, it's the guests whom are debating.

not that kind of thread.
tulc(thanks for the PM)

StarJewel said:

The old CF was uniting some Christians, not all Christians. Only after the changes it became possible for all Christians to post together with no one being unfairly excluded.

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I don't believe that was the kind of "uniting" that was intended. We may try to all unite and the churches in the world have tried it before, but it is not really possible.There will be the false church that just tries to unite by man's efforts those who are not changed by regeneration of God's Spirit, and that's not what we want. But it's GOD who UNITES us BY HIS SPIRIT into the true body of Christ in the spiritual realm. That is the kind of uniting we need. His Spirit within us bares witness with the Lord's Spirit in others and we are united with them in the Spirit, not in the natural. That's the only way it will work.

Instead of saying 'Uniting all Christians as one body'
we could be 'Christians United By The Spirit Of God'

tulc said:

...doesn't the Bible say we should be able to offer evidence of our faith if asked? Any way sorry, this isn't that kind of thread.

...sorry, this will be the last time: if it's a debate shouldn't both sides offer evidence?
tulc(we now resume our regular thread) :o

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I'll just PM you since you're the only one having an issue.

MeekOne said:

If this is indeed true, then Erwin should have changed the apologetics and debate forum somehow. If this is how you all were treated, then it IS wrong, and that area should have been improved. I do not believe the entire website should be uprooted and thrown into chaos because of a few who hurt your feelings. I'm sorry that they hurt your feelings, really I am.

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"Uprooted"? What was going to be uprooted? The only changes were that everyone was going to receive equal treatment. That's not uprooting anything. That's just instilling an environment of equality.

And as for the chaos, I've heard that claim as well. But I know that in the areas I frequent, people actually seem more tranquil and friendly since the changes were announced. Now certainly there were a number of Christians -- mostly staff and former staff -- who left or threatened to leave. But that was their choice, not ours and not Erwins. Overall, if you are invited to treat people as though they're not beneath you, or above you, but beside you, you'll treat them better.

When people are told that any group is inferior to them, they tend to treat them that way whether it's intentional or not. This can be shown in nearly any office or other work setting. For as long as CF has been in operation, there have been Christians who have the full run of the forum and are eligible to take part in how it runs, and then there are those who are relegated to small and specific areas of the forum who are not eligible. You simply can't have such an arrangement without nurturing some elitism on one side, and animosity on the other. It can't be done.

If you run a ranch and tell the cow-hands that they have to stay in the bunkhouse and aren't allowed in the main ranch-house, those who live in the main ranch-house might think they're treating them well, but there is always the subconscious belief that anything you give them is the superior giving to the inferior.

But where is all of this chaos I've heard mentioned? Everything I've seen (outside of these threads when equality is offered and then retracted), has been an improvement in behaviors and atmospheres.

did someone seriously just refer to nonChristians as guests?????

Beast again like expressed before many times in this thread - different isnt inferior and equality can only happen with the same experience we are talking about the body of Christ and those who reject the body. You reject membership in the body of Christ therfore you are not equal to those within it and cannot even begin to demand the same when the terms of membership are rejected.

Receive Christ and then you are totally equal with those of the body. Dont be a fireman demanding to operate on us. The doctors are the ones who need to be doing that. It has nothing to do with inferior again but being equipped for the position. You keep comparing apples and oranges.

kimber1 said:

did someone seriously just refer to nonChristians as guests?????

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In the old days, we would have to put [open] in the forum head; the guest would be those that normally wouldn't be allowed: that's what I meant; don't have heart attack.

Yes non christians are guests of those in the church to the body of Christ. Quote my whole post next time.

J4Jesus said:

I don't believe that was the kind of "uniting" that was intended. We may try to all unite and the churches in the world have tried it before, but it is not really possible.There will be the false church that just tries to unite by man's efforts those who are not changed by regeneration of God's Spirit, and that's not what we want. But it's GOD who UNITES us BY HIS SPIRIT into the true body of Christ in the spiritual realm. That is the kind of uniting we need. His Spirit within us bares witness with the Lord's Spirit in others and we are united with them in the Spirit, not in the natural. That's the only way it will work.

Instead of saying 'Uniting all Christians as one body'
we could be 'Christians United By The Spirit Of God'

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the problem with that is not the idea, but the simple fact that the only ones united by the holy spirit of God Himself are the saints... and we have no saints here, we are all sinners, so we are not united in one truth of God ,but divided by following sinners [or following scripture that disagrees with all the churches of modern christendom - since the saints are found here and there when Jesus takes them, 'from one end of the heaven to the other' ... they are not all together in this or that church of christendom, and they are few , not many , only some two thousand alive at any one time on average [since Jesus tells us there are but 144,000 for all the time between his first and second coming-Rev 7:3-8]

So the sinners will be united in belief [Rev 13:3-7] but in unism AGAINST the saints of God [Rev 13:8] ... that is the fate of all the word who are not baptised of the spirit, who are not baptised with 'fire' of trial of their faith in perfection OF LOVE ...

1 Peter 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

Luke 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

Thus whilst you suggestion is wholly in line with scripture, this ain't an assembly of saints, but a divided gaggle of sinners who will only unite when Satan calls for unism in believing he is the god and saviour, the christ [annointed king] of this world of men...

Do not be sad about this, because it is just the next stage in God's plan to redeem all creation, both Satan and mankind hae to be humbled by making this colossal mistake about the power of God's truth to deat even Satan and a united mankind with a third of the angels alongside... it is rather God's way of showing the power of the truth about love, that it can defeat this asembly so very certainly and easily...

but there is much suffering because men followed unloving ways and choose the antichrist to worship, God has to allow men to sufer else men will not believe that this way is wrong....

So the evil on men of suffering is for good in the end, one can thus rely on the love of God for all, throughout this ordeal by 'fire' of ones faith [if one is given any true faith yet anyway]

stranger said:

and they are few , not many , only some two thousand alive at any one time on average [since Jesus tells us there are but 144,000 for all the time between his first and second coming-Rev 7:3-8]

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Are you a Jehovah's Witness ???