Asteroid Mining-How Soon?

[Radrook]

Who says they need be brought back to Earth? Materials mined in space could be used to construct space stations and vehicles without the cost of lifting them into space from the Earth.

Such installations might even be used to refuel spacecrafts heading towards the outer solar system.

'Wet' Asteroid Could Be a Space Gas Station
"Water is the main component in how you might make propellants," said Jerry Sanders, leader of in-situ resource utilization at NASA's Lunar Surface Systems Office at the Johnson Space Center in Houston. "If you're going to go repeatedly to an asteroid, then the ability to basically start setting up gas stations could be extremely beneficial."

 

[Radrook]

And Hillary is 90% sure to win.
No prophesy, please.

That did seem like a 100% sure thing. In fact, I made a fool of myself by claiming that Trump had absolutely no chance! I think that's one of the greatest surprises in USA political history. So true, sometimes what seems like impossible turns out to be the inevitable reality.

 

[Radrook]

Let look first at a very basic feasibility assessment.

Let's start by assuming the moon is an astroid and lithium is what we need for battery on Earth purpose.

So we are going to mine a locale on the moon that will be shipped backed.

I think one can see an energy imbalance in such an endeavor.

Energy intensive to get there. The energy to mine once there. And the energy to haul the x amount of lithium back.

Once the lithium hits Earth more energy is required to transport, process, and transport again to selling point.

So far things don't look promising from an energy balance point of view.

Well China has a far more optimistic view:

Mining the Moon To Power the Earth

by Marsha Freeman

[PDF version of this article]

China's ongoing Chang'e-3 lunar mission is the first step toward creating a scientific and economic revolution which will power global economic growth and open the entire Solar System to mankind. The future development of civilization will require vast increases in energy consumption per capita, and fusion power will make that possible. The most advanced fusion technologies will increase mankind's productivity by orders of magnitude, and one pathway toward this end is to use helium-3 as the fuel for fusion. Although mining helium-3 on the Moon to power the Earth has been a goal of scientists since the end of the Apollo program in the early 1970s, today, China alone has embarked on a long-term program to reach that goal.
Mining the Moon To Power the Earth

In the USA Lunar mining rights are being debated.

NASA and Moon Mining Rights
Moon Mining Rush Ahead?

So I guess it isn't viewed by everyone as being beyond our capability to accomplish.

 

[lesliedellow]

Who says they need be brought back to Earth? Materials mined in space could be used to construct space stations and vehicles without the cost of lifting them into space from the Earth.

So we are going to have an entire industrial complex orbiting the Earth now.

I suppose even that is a really quite modest fantasy, compared with making Venus look like Earth.

 

[Radrook]

Perhaps not, but we do need to start thinking about a) how to go about it and b) manoeuvring asteroids the massive distances required to be more viable.

What will likely happen in some instances(as is already planned by NASA) is capturing asteroids to place in to lunar orbit.

Absolutely true.

The problem with mankind seems to be that it tends to lull itself to sleep with a false sense of security until the disaster happens and there is a massive loss of life. Then and only then do humans seem to feel an urgent need to prevent a repeat when the first disaster was totally avoidable to begin with. It happens with buildings and bridges that are obviously on the verge of collapse or are clearly seismologically susceptible.

It happens with our environment where the signs of imminent disaster are everywhere but are refused to be seen. And it could very will happen if an asteroid impacts our planet and we are sent back into the stone age or worse because we put our eggs into just one basket.

Then of course, the short-sighted ones, if indeed they are still alive, will whine that something should have been done in retrospect when they themselves contributed to the general sluggish irresponsibility that led to it.

 

[High Fidelity]

Absolutely true.

The problem with mankind seems to be that it tends to lull itself to sleep with a false sense of security until the disaster happens and there is a massive loss of life. Then and only then do humans seem to feel an urgent need to prevent a repeat when the first disaster was totally avoidable to begin with. It happens with buildings and bridges that are obviously on the verge of collapse or are clearly seismologically susceptible.

It happens with our environment where the signs of imminent disaster are everywhere but are refused to be seen. And it could very will happen if an asteroid impacts our planet and we are sent back into the stone age or worse because we put our eggs into just one basket.

Then of course, the short-sighted ones, if indeed they are still alive, will whine that something should have been done in retrospect when they themselves contributed to the general sluggish irresponsibility that led to it.

Sorry to be a nuisance, but please rate/quote this post to remind me to re-read that later. I just got home

 

[Radrook]

Sorry to be a nuisance, but please rate/quote this post to remind me to re-read that later. I just got home

Not a nuisance. I just don't know what rate/quoting is.

 

[loveofourlord]

It's already underway by a bunch of rich people that can aford to lose money if it doesn't work out.

http://www.planetaryresources.com/news/

their goal is to start looking at near earth asteroids and do some test captures and such, they were set back by one of the launches to the space station that blew up a year or so ago.

 

[loveofourlord]

Oh and one of the main goals of the planetary resources, is the one way that it's better to have stuff mined in space, is fuel for space flights, mine for hydrogen and such from asteroids, as it saves on the fuel needed to get off the earth and such.

 

[Radrook]

It's already underway by a bunch of rich people that can aford to lose money if it doesn't work out.

http://www.planetaryresources.com/news/

their goal is to start looking at near earth asteroids and do some test captures and such, they were set back by one of the launches to the space station that blew up a year or so ago.

Well, if one of them strikes it rich you can be sure that human ingenuity will have no limits in imitating the accomplishment. There is nothing like money for a motivator.

 

[loveofourlord]

Well, if one of them strikes it rich you can be sure that human ingenuity will have no limits in imitating the accomplishment. There is nothing like money for a motivator.

Oh yeah, it's just these guys want us into outer space, and like you said money is a good motivator, so if it works, there will be alot of push to mine afterwards, wich can really help. My theory is even if it doesn't work out great, the new technology and ideas they bring should help move us forward.

 

[Radrook]

Oh yeah, it's just these guys want us into outer space, and like you said money is a good motivator, so if it works, there will be alot of push to mine afterwards, wich can really help. My theory is even if it doesn't work out great, the new technology and ideas they bring should help move us forward.

The discovery of riches in the New World is an example of how rabidly enthusiastic and determined humans can be when they sniff material wealth possible just over the distant horizon. In fact, humans are even willing to maim and murder in order to remove any obstacle in their way in order to get to it. Look at Pizzaro and the Incas. Look at all the broken treaties with naïve Americans in the USA as well as the forced removal of the Cherokees to the West in order to appropriate their land.

The sparsely inhabited Cherokee lands were highly attractive to Georgian farmers experiencing population pressure, and illegal settlements resulted. Long-simmering tensions between Georgia and the Cherokee Nation were brought to a crisis by the discovery of gold near Dahlonega, Georgia, in 1829, resulting in the Georgia Gold Rush, the second gold rush in U.S. history. Hopeful gold speculators began trespassing on Cherokee lands, and pressure mounted to fulfill the Compact of 1802 in which the US Government promised to extinguish Indian land claims in the state of Georgia.
Trail of Tears - Wikipedia

Atahualpa's refusal led Pizarro and his force to attack the Inca army in what became the Battle of Cajamarca on 16 November 1532. The Spanish were successful. Pizarro executed Atahualpa's 12-man honor guard and took the Inca captive at the so-called Ransom Room. By February 1533, Almagro had joined Pizarro in Cajamarca with an additional 150 men with 50 horses.

Despite fulfilling his promise of filling one room (22 by 17 feet or 7 by 5 metres)[10] with gold and two with silver, Atahualpa was convicted of 12 charges, including killing his brother and plotting against Pizarro and his forces. He was executed by garrote on 29 August 1533. Francisco Pizarro and de Soto were opposed to Atahualpa's execution, but Francisco consented to the trial due to the "great agitation among the soldiers", particularly by Almagro
Francisco Pizarro - Wikipedia

Pizarro and his followers in Lima in 1535

Yes siree Bob! As a species we can be very spunky when wealth is involved!

 

[Radrook]

Oh and one of the main goals of the planetary resources, is the one way that it's better to have stuff mined in space, is fuel for space flights, mine for hydrogen and such from asteroids, as it saves on the fuel needed to get off the earth and such.

Actually, they can serve both as launching points and refueling stations once installations are set up and running. The low gravity makes them excellent places from where we might launch our rockets and save on fuel. Here on Earth look at all the effort and fuel needed just to get us into low orbit.

 

[loveofourlord]

Actually, they can serve both as launching points and refueling stations once installations are set up and running. The low gravity makes them excellent places from where we might launch our rockets and save on fuel. Here on Earth look at all the effort and fuel wastege we need just to get into low orbit.

yeah, but even just refueling is good, becomes a point where most of the fuel is just getting the fuel into space.

 

[Radrook]

yeah, but even just refueling is good, becomes a point where most of the fuel is just getting the fuel into space.

That's a lot of weight of fuel just to get into orbit!

....
The Saturn V rocket’s first stage carries 203,400 gallons (770,000 liters) of kerosene fuel and 318,000 gallons (1.2 million liters) of liquid oxygen needed for combustion. At liftoff, the stage’s five F-1 rocket engines ignite and produce 7.5 million pounds of thrust.

At an altitude of 42 miles (67 kilometers), the F-1 engines shut down. Explosive bolts fire, and the severed first stage falls into the Atlantic Ocean. [



The second stage carries 260,000 gallons (984,000 liters) of liquid hydrogen fuel and 80,000 gallons (303,000 liters) of liquid oxygen.

A few seconds after the second stage’s five rocket engines are ignited, an interstage skirt at the bottom end of the second stage is jettisoned. Shortly after that, the emergency escape rocket on top of the vehicle, only usable below 19 miles altitude, is fired off and discarded.

At 9 minutes and 9 seconds after launch, the second stage is discarded and the third stage’s rocket engine is fired. The third stage carries 66,700 gallons (252,750 liters) of liquid hydrogen fuel and 19,359 gallons (73,280 liters) of liquid oxygen. [The World's Tallest Rockets Compared

 

[Grandpa2390]

I'dont believe we have any shortages worthy of space harvest.

agreed. And the first miners, I am sure, will be the military. (well... a military funded contractor

 

[Grandpa2390]

That's a lot of weight of fuel just to get into orbit!

We now use hydrogen and oxygen as fuel. It costs about 1,380,000 to get into space. Now... that said... I think this is to get people and whatever equipment into space.... not to get fuel into space.

To make those materials economically recoverable, the prices have to be high, or they have to bring back a ton. We have diamond asteroids (I believe). sounds like a fortune, but we already have fortunes of diamonds. the price is high only because the supply is controlled.

 

[Radrook]

We now use hydrogen and oxygen as fuel. It costs about 1,380,000 to get into space. Now... that said... I think this is to get people and whatever equipment into space.... not to get fuel into space.
.

The rocket fuel weight itself demands more thrust to get it off the ground. If we launch from the moon or from an asteroid then the chemical fuel weight and gravity being less are factors that will reduce cost of any space mission.

 

[Radrook]

Sorry to be a nuisance, but please rate/quote this post to remind me to re-read that later. I just got home

Sorry I misunderstood you the first time for some strange reason. I have rated and have quoted. I understood that you wanted me to rate and quote my own post. LOL! Weird! Worries me that I might be coming down with Alzheimer's just as my mother did.

 

[Grandpa2390]

The rocket fuel weight itself demands more thrust to get it off the ground. If we launch from the moon or from an asteroid then the chemical fuel weight and gravity being less are factors that will reduce cost of any space mission.

Yeah, but we still have to get that fuel into space, which is the point of what I was saying. However, we may be able to mine hydrogen, and just have to carry oxygen into space. or maybe we can invent a new for of propulsion because I hate the idea of ejecting all of our oxygen into space...