Assurance vs. Insurance

Lukamu

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I have been a Christian for over 20 years, but I'm also the type of person who questions and looks at other points of view to try and get a fuller understanding. I have been born again, and I have rededicated my life to Christ several times at critical points in my life. So now that you know a little bit about me, here's where I'm at now:

I don't know for certain whether it's all true or not. I don't know if there is an afterlife - I think that there probably is - and I don't know whether the Bible can be completely trusted in its entirety - I think that we can but I'm just not certain. I have tried to live my life according to the Bible and I do believe that Jesus died for my sins - if it's all true.

I've been thinking about this issue and come to use the terms "insurance" and "assurance" to describe my problem. Jesus is my insurance policy. If I get to the end of my life and it turns out there's no afterlife, that's okay because I tried to be moral and generally live a good life according to what was written in the Bible. However, if it turns out that there IS an afterlife, I have trusted in Jesus my entire life and so I know that I'm going to be in heaven with him. So, it's what I have come to call and "insurance policy." If something bad happens, then I'm covered. There are obvious moral and theological problems with this, but I'm just being honest that this is where I'm stuck at right now.

On the other hand, someone who has the "assurance of salvation" is completely convinced that there is a heaven and a hell. They believe 100% that Jesus did die to pay for sins and save souls from hell, and they believe 100% that anyone who dies without being born again will not be going to heaven. I'm just not there yet - I'd say there's a pretty good chance that there's a heaven and a hell, and that most likely if you aren't born again that you won't be going to heaven. I'm just not all in.

Has anyone been here before that can help me out? Is there anyone with me here? Thanks.
 
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ChristianR_

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This sounds a lot like me soon before I lost my faith. I know a lot of people on this forum will probably be upset by what I have to say, but I'd recommend seeing both sides of religion. Watch debates between atheists and theists. See what atheists and Christians have to say. Don't just watch what one side has to say. It's basically brainwashing and will really impair your reasoning and beliefs, no matter what side you conform with. Form your own opinion on the matter. Ask God to speak to you, also. (Weird coming from an atheist, I know.) But don't mistake your thoughts or conscious for his voice.
 
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bcbsr

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I have been a Christian for over 20 years, but I'm also the type of person who questions and looks at other points of view to try and get a fuller understanding. I have been born again, and I have rededicated my life to Christ several times at critical points in my life. So now that you know a little bit about me, here's where I'm at now:

I don't know for certain whether it's all true or not. I don't know if there is an afterlife - I think that there probably is - and I don't know whether the Bible can be completely trusted in its entirety - I think that we can but I'm just not certain. I have tried to live my life according to the Bible and I do believe that Jesus died for my sins - if it's all true.

I've been thinking about this issue and come to use the terms "insurance" and "assurance" to describe my problem. Jesus is my insurance policy. If I get to the end of my life and it turns out there's no afterlife, that's okay because I tried to be moral and generally live a good life according to what was written in the Bible. However, if it turns out that there IS an afterlife, I have trusted in Jesus my entire life and so I know that I'm going to be in heaven with him. So, it's what I have come to call and "insurance policy." If something bad happens, then I'm covered. There are obvious moral and theological problems with this, but I'm just being honest that this is where I'm stuck at right now.

On the other hand, someone who has the "assurance of salvation" is completely convinced that there is a heaven and a hell. They believe 100% that Jesus did die to pay for sins and save souls from hell, and they believe 100% that anyone who dies without being born again will not be going to heaven. I'm just not there yet - I'd say there's a pretty good chance that there's a heaven and a hell, and that most likely if you aren't born again that you won't be going to heaven. I'm just not all in.

Has anyone been here before that can help me out? Is there anyone with me here? Thanks.
What it seems you're saying is that you're not really convinced. And that your faith is just experimental at this point. It seems to me the rhetoric your using is not one who is actually trusting in Christ at this point. And you yourself recognize there are those who do, but you're not there yet.

Faith comes from hearing the message. God says, "You will seek me and find me when you seek with all your heart". Half-hearted seeking won't do, and neither will half-hearted faith. Study the scriptures and see if it's convincing to you. Don't be satisfied sitting on the fence.
 
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royal priest

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I have been a Christian for over 20 years, but I'm also the type of person who questions and looks at other points of view to try and get a fuller understanding. I have been born again, and I have rededicated my life to Christ several times at critical points in my life. So now that you know a little bit about me, here's where I'm at now:

I don't know for certain whether it's all true or not. I don't know if there is an afterlife - I think that there probably is - and I don't know whether the Bible can be completely trusted in its entirety - I think that we can but I'm just not certain. I have tried to live my life according to the Bible and I do believe that Jesus died for my sins - if it's all true.

I've been thinking about this issue and come to use the terms "insurance" and "assurance" to describe my problem. Jesus is my insurance policy. If I get to the end of my life and it turns out there's no afterlife, that's okay because I tried to be moral and generally live a good life according to what was written in the Bible. However, if it turns out that there IS an afterlife, I have trusted in Jesus my entire life and so I know that I'm going to be in heaven with him. So, it's what I have come to call and "insurance policy." If something bad happens, then I'm covered. There are obvious moral and theological problems with this, but I'm just being honest that this is where I'm stuck at right now.

On the other hand, someone who has the "assurance of salvation" is completely convinced that there is a heaven and a hell. They believe 100% that Jesus did die to pay for sins and save souls from hell, and they believe 100% that anyone who dies without being born again will not be going to heaven. I'm just not there yet - I'd say there's a pretty good chance that there's a heaven and a hell, and that most likely if you aren't born again that you won't be going to heaven. I'm just not all in.
You are either with Jesus or you are against Him. It's all or nothing. There is no middle ground:
Luke 11:23, "Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters."
Matthew 10:38, "whoever does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me."
Galatians 5:24, "those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires."
Hebrews 11:6, "without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him."
 
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Bumble Bee

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I have been a Christian for over 20 years, but I'm also the type of person who questions and looks at other points of view to try and get a fuller understanding. I have been born again, and I have rededicated my life to Christ several times at critical points in my life. So now that you know a little bit about me, here's where I'm at now:

I don't know for certain whether it's all true or not. I don't know if there is an afterlife - I think that there probably is - and I don't know whether the Bible can be completely trusted in its entirety - I think that we can but I'm just not certain. I have tried to live my life according to the Bible and I do believe that Jesus died for my sins - if it's all true.

I've been thinking about this issue and come to use the terms "insurance" and "assurance" to describe my problem. Jesus is my insurance policy. If I get to the end of my life and it turns out there's no afterlife, that's okay because I tried to be moral and generally live a good life according to what was written in the Bible. However, if it turns out that there IS an afterlife, I have trusted in Jesus my entire life and so I know that I'm going to be in heaven with him. So, it's what I have come to call and "insurance policy." If something bad happens, then I'm covered. There are obvious moral and theological problems with this, but I'm just being honest that this is where I'm stuck at right now.

On the other hand, someone who has the "assurance of salvation" is completely convinced that there is a heaven and a hell. They believe 100% that Jesus did die to pay for sins and save souls from hell, and they believe 100% that anyone who dies without being born again will not be going to heaven. I'm just not there yet - I'd say there's a pretty good chance that there's a heaven and a hell, and that most likely if you aren't born again that you won't be going to heaven. I'm just not all in.

Has anyone been here before that can help me out? Is there anyone with me here? Thanks.

I think it is important to look at both sides because that is the way we find out WHY we believe. The problem with insurance is that it can be used as a cop out to keep people from fully trusting the Lord. Trusting in Jesus is different than believing He exists. I understand what you are saying, though. People who wholeheartedly believe in the Lord have nothing to lose because at the end, they will either be proven correct and be with the Lord or nothing will happen. I hate to call it insurance, though, because it has the ring of calling Jesus a back up plan to be paid out if something goes wrong in the way we live our life.
 
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JIMINZ

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This sounds a lot like me soon before I lost my faith.

What are you calling Faith.

Belief in Jesus Christ as your Savior?
Belief in a Religious System?
Belief in the teachings of a particular Denomination?
The inequities you saw in Christianity?

I am really curious as to what it could be, that could make someone in their teens actually lose their Faith.
 
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Johnny4ChristJesus

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I have been a Christian for over 20 years, but I'm also the type of person who questions and looks at other points of view to try and get a fuller understanding. I have been born again, and I have rededicated my life to Christ several times at critical points in my life. So now that you know a little bit about me, here's where I'm at now:

I don't know for certain whether it's all true or not. I don't know if there is an afterlife - I think that there probably is - and I don't know whether the Bible can be completely trusted in its entirety - I think that we can but I'm just not certain. I have tried to live my life according to the Bible and I do believe that Jesus died for my sins - if it's all true.

I've been thinking about this issue and come to use the terms "insurance" and "assurance" to describe my problem. Jesus is my insurance policy. If I get to the end of my life and it turns out there's no afterlife, that's okay because I tried to be moral and generally live a good life according to what was written in the Bible. However, if it turns out that there IS an afterlife, I have trusted in Jesus my entire life and so I know that I'm going to be in heaven with him. So, it's what I have come to call and "insurance policy." If something bad happens, then I'm covered. There are obvious moral and theological problems with this, but I'm just being honest that this is where I'm stuck at right now.

On the other hand, someone who has the "assurance of salvation" is completely convinced that there is a heaven and a hell. They believe 100% that Jesus did die to pay for sins and save souls from hell, and they believe 100% that anyone who dies without being born again will not be going to heaven. I'm just not there yet - I'd say there's a pretty good chance that there's a heaven and a hell, and that most likely if you aren't born again that you won't be going to heaven. I'm just not all in.

Has anyone been here before that can help me out? Is there anyone with me here? Thanks.

You made it clear that you aren't sure, if I understand you correctly. And, you confess that you see Jesus as your insurance policy (which reminds me of Pascal's wager).

Before God woke me up, I was so ignorant, I didn't care. I'd go to church when convenient simply because it was what I grew up in, but I didn't really believe NOR did I invest any time trying to read the difficult to read book. As a mainliner, I was taught to run away if someone claimed to be born-again. I was told they were all crazy. So, when I had to room with someone who said he was born again for a 6-week initial training for a pharmaceutical company, I basically told him that "we will get along great as long as his born again thing doesn't cross over to my side of the room." And, it didn't, so I was fully able to be involved in an adulterous affair (by Jesus' definition) and had no remorse. Yet, if you had asked me, I would have told you I was a Christian back then. About 2 years later, I was "tricked" into teaching Sunday school. With no Bible knowledge, feeling stuck, and not wanting to quit, I became desperate enough to get on my knees and say "God, if you are real, you got me into this mess. You are gonna have to help me." I wasn't expecting anything and I could easily argue that everything that happened could easily be argued as something that "I did," so I won't try to claim otherwise with you. BUT,

In March after making an honest confession about my lack of knowledge of the Scriptures, I felt I needed to get a New Testament on CD. I was embarrassed at first and hid the Bible under all my work stuff, so nobody knew I was listening. I never would have done that for the self-help sales tapes I listened to, but I did for the Bible. Once I got it, I started listening and the more I listened, the more I was drawn to listen and read along (when I wasn't driving). In a sense, I became addicted to the Word of God. In that same sense, I still am today. I have just as much hunger to hear the Word of God as I did back then. By the time, I went away to a business meeting in May, I was listening every moment I could. At the business meeting, I started listening while I slept as well. And, God woke me up. It is like He blessed me to know without questioning that He is real and that He woke me up. He didn't have to threaten me with hell. Just having Him choose to wake me up to Him was good enough for me. And it has been an amazing ride, not without costs; but, what cost isn't worth knowing the One who holds everyone's eternity--including my own and the eternity of the ones I love?

The atheist who responded to your message may say "ah-hah, that proves my point, he's brainwashed." I'm not going to argue here. I'm only going to report what happened to me. I can't make anyone choose Him. He wants willing worshippers, not forced or threatened people who don't really want Him.

Immediately when He woke me up, I had this incredible sense of peace, a joy that transcended any unhappy circumstances that happened, an unquenchable thirst for knowledge and Truth, an absolute unquestionable certainty about the existence of the God and Father of my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, a certainty regarding the absolute Truth of God's Word, and a shift in priorities from God being somewhere near the bottom to God being first priority--even if it costs me all my other priorities.

I still have a peace that transcends whatever happens. So, if I don't worry about things that most men would, because I know God has my back (though I also must acknowledge that I know that it doesn't always turn out the way I think it should). It is just a deep deep sense of peace that I'm in good hands regardless what happens around me or even to me here. I also have a joy that isn't fazed even when I'm going through an unhappy situation. Doesn't mean I have a glued-on smile and doesn't mean that I am always in touch with that joy in the midst of frustration; but it is a joy that is ever ready to bubble out as soon as I slow down enough to get over myself. And, it happens that quickly. And, I continue to have an unquenchable thirst for knowledge and Truth which for me is nourished by Scripture. In fact, I'm listening as I write this. Though my wife doesn't want to hear it, I look forward to the day God calls me home, because I look forward to being with Him in a way that we just can't be here. Doesn't mean I'm suicidal. I'm not trying to leave; but I'm not afraid to leave either. I don't have to fear death. Again, I have that deep deep peace, because I know where I am going when I leave this place. Thanks be to God!

In light of all this, all I can say is what the person said about "diligently seeking Him" is true. I didn't have someone to tell me that and even if they did, I probably wouldn't have believed them; because I would have thought it to be wasted time back when I was "of the world". Consider asking Him to show you that He is real and that He loves you and ask Him to help you find Him. Then start reading or listening for understanding, not just to say you got through it. God looks at the heart. He knows who genuinely wants to know Him and who is just willing to go through the motions with no patience to see it through. God doesn't do things on our time schedule. He does them on His time schedule. I would encourage you not to get off the train until God wakes you up.

The insurance plan is a deception to make people feel falsely safe when they aren't. If Jesus was only an add-on in someone's life--not the #1 priority in their life--they won't be in heaven.

I would just encourage you to give God an opportunity to show you; but you will have to do your part, too, when you feel the leading.
 
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AvgJoe

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I don't know for certain whether it's all true or not. I don't know if there is an afterlife - I think that there probably is - and I don't know whether the Bible can be completely trusted in its entirety - I think that we can but I'm just not certain.

If the Bible is true, then Christianity is true, and God, who is described within it's pages, is true.

The Bible was written over a period of 1,600 years, by 40 God chosen men, who lived on multiple continents and they all wrote about the same thing, the Gospel of Jesus Christ. There were no mail delivery trucks, no drop ship planes, no Federal Express, no UPS and no email, yet when all of the writings were put together they present one unified message. The Bible is truly the Word of God.

Following are some topics and links I hope you will look into, concerning the validity of the Bible. Please see what the evidence has to say.

An excellent ebook on the subject: http://www.apologeticspress.org/pdfs..._pdf/idobi.pdf

Proof of Textual Evidence
Old Testament: The Dead Sea Scrolls and Biblical Integrity
New Testament: http://www.carm.org/questions/textualevidence.htm
More on the Bible: http://www.carm.org/bible.htm

Proof of People Living at the Time of Christ
http://www.carm.org/questions/extrab...l_accounts.htm
http://www.carm.org/questions/Josephus.htm

Proof of Archaeology
http://www.christiananswers.net/arch...e.html#general
http://www.carm.org/questions/eviden...aeological.htm

Proof of Science: Statements Consistent With Paleontology, Astronomy, Meteorology, Biology, Anthropology, Hydrology and Geology
Science and the Bible
http://www.carm.org/bible/ms_science.htm
http://www.eternal-productions.org/101science.html

Proof of Prophecy (Messanic & dealing with nations)
https://www.gospeloutreach.net/bibsuper.html
http://www.clarifyingchristianity.co...ophecies.shtml
http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/fulfill.shtml
http://www.carm.org/bible/prophecy.htm
http://shoreshdavidbrandon.org/pdf/I...ose-Jewish.pdf (awesome eBook)
http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/b_proof.shtml

If the Bible is true, Christianity is true. In Christianity, faith is required but it does not have to be a blind faith.
 
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dysert

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I have been a Christian for over 20 years, but I'm also the type of person who questions and looks at other points of view to try and get a fuller understanding. I have been born again, and I have rededicated my life to Christ several times at critical points in my life. So now that you know a little bit about me, here's where I'm at now:

I don't know for certain whether it's all true or not. I don't know if there is an afterlife - I think that there probably is - and I don't know whether the Bible can be completely trusted in its entirety - I think that we can but I'm just not certain. I have tried to live my life according to the Bible and I do believe that Jesus died for my sins - if it's all true.

I've been thinking about this issue and come to use the terms "insurance" and "assurance" to describe my problem. Jesus is my insurance policy. If I get to the end of my life and it turns out there's no afterlife, that's okay because I tried to be moral and generally live a good life according to what was written in the Bible. However, if it turns out that there IS an afterlife, I have trusted in Jesus my entire life and so I know that I'm going to be in heaven with him. So, it's what I have come to call and "insurance policy." If something bad happens, then I'm covered. There are obvious moral and theological problems with this, but I'm just being honest that this is where I'm stuck at right now.

On the other hand, someone who has the "assurance of salvation" is completely convinced that there is a heaven and a hell. They believe 100% that Jesus did die to pay for sins and save souls from hell, and they believe 100% that anyone who dies without being born again will not be going to heaven. I'm just not there yet - I'd say there's a pretty good chance that there's a heaven and a hell, and that most likely if you aren't born again that you won't be going to heaven. I'm just not all in.

Has anyone been here before that can help me out? Is there anyone with me here? Thanks.
I can empathize with what you're saying. I've been a Christian for over 40 years, and I can't say I'm 100% certain that what I believe is factual. But I don't think I need to be 100% certain. Most of Christianity can be "proven" as factual (as much as anything can be "proven"), but that last little bit is the faith part. It's where you decide to believe the remainder even without proof.

Remember that our enemy is roaming about, seeking to steal, kill, and destroy. He is a liar, and he desperately wants you to believe his lies.

My suggestion is that you stop looking around at everything and trying to nail down that last bit of Christianity that requires faith. Instead, only pay attention to things that are supportive of Christianity. At this point in time, you don't need to be questioning and searching in vain for the 100%. You need to be reinforcing the 98% that you know is true. That reading list posted earlier is undoubtedly a good place to start. Listening to encouraging music and messages is also good. Going to church regularly and being in fellowship with other believers is also good.

You're a little bit weak right now, so now isn't the time to be questioning things. Now is the time to build up what remains until you're healthy again. Don't listen to the lies, and don't entertain questions. Stick with what you know, maintain your faith, and you'll get strong again.
 
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Chinchilla

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I don't know for certain whether it's all true or not. I don't know if there is an afterlife

You either know you have eternal life or don't . How can you say you have eternal life and at the same time you say that you don't know if there is one ?

If I get to the end of my life and it turns out there's no afterlife, that's okay because I tried to be moral and generally live a good life according to what was written in the Bible.

You don't get saved by living according to what is written in Bible because you can't to live up to such standards so can't anybody else that's why Christ had to come because we needed sinless offering we all sinned and nobody of us could save other because we are all polluted . God said it clearly when Abraham sacrificed Isaac , they were ready to do it then God said stop because Isaac could not pay for others even if he wanted to (he was not child he was probably 20 , few days later he has wife ) . God said that he would provide himself the offering .

On the other hand, someone who has the "assurance of salvation" is completely convinced that there is a heaven and a hell. They believe 100% that Jesus did die to pay for sins and save souls from hell, and they believe 100% that anyone who dies without being born again will not be going to heaven. I'm just not there yet - I'd say there's a pretty good chance that there's a heaven and a hell, and that most likely if you aren't born again that you won't be going to heaven. I'm just not all in.

If you don't know then you don't believe.

There are two options :
1) You know God exist and were born again but live in sin thus making yourself dubt what you believe ,
you know sin exists therefore God must too because you had to sin against something / somebody

2) You know God exist but never trusted him - Yes both answers start with you know that God exists because that's what God revealed to us and we confirm it every time we make any truth statement or moral judgement about anything , even you reading this post assume something like logic exists so there is not only matter but objective moral values and laws such as of non-contradiction or logic .

If you are the 2nd option you probably never had Good reason to believe and put trust in God , Christianity is not like other religions it has prophecy , God said he do NOTHING but first reveal it to prophets , so he is using the one divine atribute nobody else than him has meaning foreknowledge so you can know it came from him

The Gospel is 1 Corinthians 15:1-4
a) Christ died according to Scriptures
b) was burried and rose again according to Scriptures
c) and by doing so he paid for the sin of world , if you believe you accept the pardon God prepared for you for free , it is underserved free gift of eternal life not by anything you do or how good/bad you are because everybody is bad . Galatians 2:16 , Ephesians 2:8-9 , 1 Peter 1:18-19 , Ephesians 1:13-14

If you want to check the prophecies read 700 year old or so before Christ came Isaiah 53 , or read Daniel 9 which gives exactly the year . It's worth an hour of your time trust me .



You can check also www.accordingtothescriptures.org/prophecy/353prophecies.html
 
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Lukamu

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This sounds a lot like me soon before I lost my faith. I know a lot of people on this forum will probably be upset by what I have to say, but I'd recommend seeing both sides of religion. Watch debates between atheists and theists. See what atheists and Christians have to say. Don't just watch what one side has to say. It's basically brainwashing and will really impair your reasoning and beliefs, no matter what side you conform with. Form your own opinion on the matter. Ask God to speak to you, also. (Weird coming from an atheist, I know.) But don't mistake your thoughts or conscious for his voice.

My "all in" question is why is there something instead of nothing? Why is there a universe if there was nothing, and how did it start and work out so well that I'm able to write this sentence? It's just unfathomable to think that it all happened naturally, that there is no higher power that created it or set things in motion. I 100% believe that there is a higher power.
 
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Johnny4ChristJesus

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My "all in" question is why is there something instead of nothing? Why is there a universe if there was nothing, and how did it start and work out so well that I'm able to write this sentence? It's just unfathomable to think that it all happened naturally, that there is no higher power that created it or set things in motion. I 100% believe that there is a higher power.

So, if I understand your response to ChristianR, you believe in a Creator/Designer, but you are questioning whether the Christian God is that God? If that is the case, how are you going about trying to solve your dilemma of which one is the real one? I'm committed to Jesus, because I know I was awakened by the God and Father of my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. And, I have never heard of a Christian saying the muslim god came and woke them up; but I do know of stories of muslims who said Jesus appeared to them (just like He did the errant Jewish man Saul who later became Apostle Paul).

But, you have to definitively determine who you believe is the True God and then do what He expects. Nobody else can do that for you.
 
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ChristianR_

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My "all in" question is why is there something instead of nothing? Why is there a universe if there was nothing, and how did it start and work out so well that I'm able to write this sentence? It's just unfathomable to think that it all happened naturally, that there is no higher power that created it or set things in motion. I 100% believe that there is a higher power.
I don't know. But just because I don't know the origins of the entire universe, doesn't mean a divine creator had to have made all of it. I totally understand your point, though.
 
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Lukamu

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You made it clear that you aren't sure, if I understand you correctly. And, you confess that you see Jesus as your insurance policy (which reminds me of Pascal's wager).

Before God woke me up, I was so ignorant, I didn't care. I'd go to church when convenient simply because it was what I grew up in, but I didn't really believe NOR did I invest any time trying to read the difficult to read book. As a mainliner, I was taught to run away if someone claimed to be born-again. I was told they were all crazy. So, when I had to room with someone who said he was born again for a 6-week initial training for a pharmaceutical company, I basically told him that "we will get along great as long as his born again thing doesn't cross over to my side of the room." And, it didn't, so I was fully able to be involved in an adulterous affair (by Jesus' definition) and had no remorse. Yet, if you had asked me, I would have told you I was a Christian back then. About 2 years later, I was "tricked" into teaching Sunday school. With no Bible knowledge, feeling stuck, and not wanting to quit, I became desperate enough to get on my knees and say "God, if you are real, you got me into this mess. You are gonna have to help me." I wasn't expecting anything and I could easily argue that everything that happened could easily be argued as something that "I did," so I won't try to claim otherwise with you. BUT,

In March after making an honest confession about my lack of knowledge of the Scriptures, I felt I needed to get a New Testament on CD. I was embarrassed at first and hid the Bible under all my work stuff, so nobody knew I was listening. I never would have done that for the self-help sales tapes I listened to, but I did for the Bible. Once I got it, I started listening and the more I listened, the more I was drawn to listen and read along (when I wasn't driving). In a sense, I became addicted to the Word of God. In that same sense, I still am today. I have just as much hunger to hear the Word of God as I did back then. By the time, I went away to a business meeting in May, I was listening every moment I could. At the business meeting, I started listening while I slept as well. And, God woke me up. It is like He blessed me to know without questioning that He is real and that He woke me up. He didn't have to threaten me with hell. Just having Him choose to wake me up to Him was good enough for me. And it has been an amazing ride, not without costs; but, what cost isn't worth knowing the One who holds everyone's eternity--including my own and the eternity of the ones I love?

The atheist who responded to your message may say "ah-hah, that proves my point, he's brainwashed." I'm not going to argue here. I'm only going to report what happened to me. I can't make anyone choose Him. He wants willing worshippers, not forced or threatened people who don't really want Him.

Immediately when He woke me up, I had this incredible sense of peace, a joy that transcended any unhappy circumstances that happened, an unquenchable thirst for knowledge and Truth, an absolute unquestionable certainty about the existence of the God and Father of my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, a certainty regarding the absolute Truth of God's Word, and a shift in priorities from God being somewhere near the bottom to God being first priority--even if it costs me all my other priorities.

I still have a peace that transcends whatever happens. So, if I don't worry about things that most men would, because I know God has my back (though I also must acknowledge that I know that it doesn't always turn out the way I think it should). It is just a deep deep sense of peace that I'm in good hands regardless what happens around me or even to me here. I also have a joy that isn't fazed even when I'm going through an unhappy situation. Doesn't mean I have a glued-on smile and doesn't mean that I am always in touch with that joy in the midst of frustration; but it is a joy that is ever ready to bubble out as soon as I slow down enough to get over myself. And, it happens that quickly. And, I continue to have an unquenchable thirst for knowledge and Truth which for me is nourished by Scripture. In fact, I'm listening as I write this. Though my wife doesn't want to hear it, I look forward to the day God calls me home, because I look forward to being with Him in a way that we just can't be here. Doesn't mean I'm suicidal. I'm not trying to leave; but I'm not afraid to leave either. I don't have to fear death. Again, I have that deep deep peace, because I know where I am going when I leave this place. Thanks be to God!

In light of all this, all I can say is what the person said about "diligently seeking Him" is true. I didn't have someone to tell me that and even if they did, I probably wouldn't have believed them; because I would have thought it to be wasted time back when I was "of the world". Consider asking Him to show you that He is real and that He loves you and ask Him to help you find Him. Then start reading or listening for understanding, not just to say you got through it. God looks at the heart. He knows who genuinely wants to know Him and who is just willing to go through the motions with no patience to see it through. God doesn't do things on our time schedule. He does them on His time schedule. I would encourage you not to get off the train until God wakes you up.

The insurance plan is a deception to make people feel falsely safe when they aren't. If Jesus was only an add-on in someone's life--not the #1 priority in their life--they won't be in heaven.

I would just encourage you to give God an opportunity to show you; but you will have to do your part, too, when you feel the leading.

Thanks for sharing that. I have been through so many "this time it's REAL" experiences in my life that I've lost count. Yet somehow, every time I seem to find more things to question. In 2012 I was really 100% committed like you, but then life got hard. When my grandpa died in 2014, he told me that when he dies, it's just lights out - his existence is over. He said that the afterlife is just a story that people make up to feel better about people who have died and about their own mortal ends. Life has just been really hard since then and I am starting to understand his point of view. The more I try to seek God, the further away I seem to get from him. I want to believe that there's an afterlife, but the more that I try to believe it, the more I think about how the brain is where thoughts and memories are generated and stored, and once the brain stops functioning there's an end to all of it. It's like I have to choose between reason and religion...
 
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Johnny4ChristJesus

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Thanks for sharing that. I have been through so many "this time it's REAL" experiences in my life that I've lost count. Yet somehow, every time I seem to find more things to question. In 2012 I was really 100% committed like you, but then life got hard. When my grandpa died in 2014, he told me that when he dies, it's just lights out - his existence is over. He said that the afterlife is just a story that people make up to feel better about people who have died and about their own mortal ends. Life has just been really hard since then and I am starting to understand his point of view. The more I try to seek God, the further away I seem to get from him. I want to believe that there's an afterlife, but the more that I try to believe it, the more I think about how the brain is where thoughts and memories are generated and stored, and once the brain stops functioning there's an end to all of it. It's like I have to choose between reason and religion...

I would never ask you to choose religion over reason. Faith is a higher reasoning. It begins with a starting point that natural reasoning can't.

Your grandpa was an unbeliever, but even as an unbeliever, how would he know that "its just lights out" when you die. He has no empirical evidence to support that. See that is the lower reasoning. It is a reasoning that begins with no God and therefore no possibilities that don't make sense to that what-I-can-see reasoning.

But, "everything coming from nothing" is also nonsensical and yet even science says that is how it all began. They just refuse to admit that Someone outside of that nothing had to have made "everything come out of nothing" which is a much more reasonable explanation than they give, without any empirical evidence. Then they claim that explosion led to a continually evolving order when, empirical evidence suggests that everything else that explodes creates complete chaos.

Someone getting healed of something the doctors say is permanent or even terminal is nonsensical, but it happens.

I guess it boils down to this. When God woke me up, He exposed the lies for what they are. I don't have to revisit the lies again. I'm past that. I have suffered loss through my walk with Him; But, that doesn't change anything for me. In fact, if I was your enemy, getting you to suffer loss until you give up is a great strategy to beat someone down into submission. But, because I know God is real and He chose to wake me up, why on earth would I want to walk away from what He has for me eternally, including this incredible relationship with Him, because I suffered some temporal loss?

And, then you read Job. Look at all Job suffered and God bragged about him to satan right before God allowed satan to take things from Job. But, Job was blessed with a real relationship with God--like nobody would ever be able to take that away AND complete restoration of more than he began with--after suffering through the temporary losses. And, Jesus said that He would show Saul/Paul how much he would have to suffer for His Name's sake. And, the Apostle Paul suffered loss, yet he never even considered turning away from God. It just didn't compute! He, like me, would ask "Why on earth would I when I know who I know?" We aren't talking about living in a dream world. We are talking about real experiences that help us know that we know that we know, unlike those who have no experience and void of experience choose to disbelieve.
 
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Johnny4ChristJesus

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Thanks for sharing that. I have been through so many "this time it's REAL" experiences in my life that I've lost count. Yet somehow, every time I seem to find more things to question. In 2012 I was really 100% committed like you, but then life got hard. When my grandpa died in 2014, he told me that when he dies, it's just lights out - his existence is over. He said that the afterlife is just a story that people make up to feel better about people who have died and about their own mortal ends. Life has just been really hard since then and I am starting to understand his point of view. The more I try to seek God, the further away I seem to get from him. I want to believe that there's an afterlife, but the more that I try to believe it, the more I think about how the brain is where thoughts and memories are generated and stored, and once the brain stops functioning there's an end to all of it. It's like I have to choose between reason and religion...

I don't have to worry about making myself believe in an afterlife. I know. BRAIN. How and why did we come about? Did it happen that one day a series of smart cells came to produce the first human or did God create the first human? You said you see things that cannot be explained apart from a Creator. So, isn't it at least possible that the Creator you KNOW exists might also want to keep some of us around--especially those He feels a special bond with--like Abraham and Moses and David, for instance.

If there is no afterlife, what is the purpose of this life? Paul said it this way: "“If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.” 1 Cor 15 is absolutely fascinating.

Paul says: “If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die....But some man will say, 'How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?' Thou fool! that which you sow is not quickened, except it die...." (More from 1 Cor 15)

But, there is so much more throughout Scripture. I love the story of Paul, because he didn't believe in Jesus, until Jesus appeared to him. But, after that, there is no more doubt. That is what God also did to me. There is no more debate for me.

And in Revelation 6, we see a picture of those who had their heads chopped off asking God how long. If everything stops when your brain ceases to function, then how do you explain that picture? Or the picture Jesus gives of the rich man and Lazarus after they both died (Luke 16)?

For what purpose would a Creator endure this mess, if not to save His favorites, at least? And, if the Creator would save His favorites, why couldn't that include you--if you were to take the gloves off and fight the good fight of faith for Him?
 
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