Assurance of Salvation according to John...

[d taylor]

So by sharing that link, you agree that loving our brother is a work that we do?

I agree that loving a brother is not a condition required by God, to receive Gid's free gift of Eternal Life salvation. It is a fellowship condition required of a believer, for being a good child of God in God's family. You want to have fellow with God, then love your fellow brothers in Christ in God's family.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

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Assurance of eternal life salvation comes only from the promise of God. That anyone who trust in The Messiah for God's free gift of Eternal Life has receive eternal life salvation never to lose it.

The assurance can not come from the believer themselves, because of sin. The believer may, if a believer takes his eyes off of God's promise and looks to themselves, lose assurance.

Being that God is the originator and keeper of our eternal life salvation, the believer did nothing to make eternal life salvation available to all of humanity and does nothing to keep themselves saved. God does all the work, that is why it is called grace.

While we cannot save ourselves, we are to, once a believer, build upon the rock...live a sanctified life.
John is not saying here that if we sin we are not in Christ. Remember how 1 John opens...if we say we are without sin we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. We are to confess our sin. We do not sin in this manner. Faith in Christ credits us with righteousness. It remains that we need to grow up in our faith weighing right from wrong as a daily practice...it is God in us, Philippians tells us, causing us to speak and to act...working of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Guojing]

I agree that loving a brother is not a condition required by God, to receive Gid's free gift of Eternal Life salvation. It is a fellowship condition required of a believer, for being a good child of God in God's family. You want to have fellow with God, then love your fellow brothers in Christ in God's family.

I see.

Do you also think that was what John was referring to in 1 John 3:14-15?

14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

When John said whosoever who do not love his brother abide in death and don't have eternal life, he meant only loss of fellowship with God?

 

[Guojing]

Works can be done for any number of reasons other than for the purpose of trying to earn our righteousness as a wage, which do not give us something to boast about, so these verses speaking against incorrect reasons for doing works should not be mistaken as speaking against correct reasons for doing works.

The way you phrase this particular statement really makes my head spin.

That is what I meant when I talk about going on mental gymnastics.

 

[ozso]

Too many Christians see salvation as a formula for the afterlife, rather than seeing it as a way of life.

When I was a kid there was Christian and unchristian behavior. Not saved and unsaved concerning believers, just Christian and unchristian. Regardless of afterlife salvation, the point and purpose of being a Christian is living a Christian lifestyle, as opposed to living an unchristian lifestyle.

Being a Christian while living an unchristian lifestyle, makes no more sense than being a vegetarian who eats meat.

 

[Carl Emerson]

So isn't "loving our brothers" a work that we do?

No because without Jesus Love it would be impossible.

 

[ozso]

No because without Jesus Love it would be impossible.

I'd say proactively displaying that love is a work. But it's a work of the Holy Spirit within us, rather than of ourselves.

 

[Carl Emerson]

I smile at the verse "the Wages of sin is death but the Gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

In life we choose the Wages... or the Gift.

Wages requires work and results in death.

A Gift is freely given and results in Life.

Worth pondering on...

 

[Guojing]

No because without Jesus Love it would be impossible.

That might be true but I am not saying one can love others without Jesus love.

I am saying loving others is something one must still choose to do, after receiving Jesus love.

Is that a contradiction?

 

[d taylor]

I see.

Do you also think that was what John was referring to in 1 John 3:14-15?

14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

When John said whosoever who do not love his brother abide in death and don't have eternal life, he meant only loss of fellowship with God?

If you are speaking of the verses you posted. Then verse 15 does not say "don't have eternal life" . The verse states "hath eternal life abiding in him".

No Murderer Has Eternal Life Abiding in Him (1 John 3:15) – Grace Evangelical Society

 

[d taylor]

I see.

Do you also think that was what John was referring to in 1 John 3:14-15?

14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

When John said whosoever who do not love his brother abide in death and don't have eternal life, he meant only loss of fellowship with God?

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Three Words That Summarize the Christian Life: Believe, Abide, Love – Grace Evangelical Society

 

[Guojing]

If you are speaking of the verses you posted. Then verse 15 does not say "don't have eternal life" . The verse states "hath eternal life abiding in him".

No Murderer Has Eternal Life Abiding in Him (1 John 3:15) – Grace Evangelical Society

Why are you splitting hair there?

How about abide in death then?

 

[Soyeong]

The way you phrase this particular statement really makes my head spin.

That is what I meant when I talk about going on mental gymnastics.

Sorry for not being clear. To give some examples, someone could obey God's law because they want to look pious, because they want to earn their righteousness, they want to boast, they want to avoid hell, they want to express their faith, they want to express their love, they want to build godly character, they want to grow in a relationship with God, they want to bring about the restoration of the word, and so forth. Some of those are correct reasons that the Bible speaks in favor of while other are incorrect reasons that the Bible speaks against, so what is said against the incorrect reasons should not be mistaken as being against the correct reasons.

Here are some verses that speak against earning our salvation/justification/eternal life as a wage: Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 3:28, Romans 4:5, Galatians 2:21, and Titus 3:5.

Here are some verses that speak in favor of our salvation/justification/eternal life requiring us to choose to be doers of the law: Ephesians 2:10, Romans 2:6-7, Romans 2:13, Romans 3:31, Romans 6:19-23, Matthew 7:21-23, Matthew 19:17, Luke 10:25-28, Titus 2:11-14, Hebrews 5:9, and Revelation 22:14.

Those are by no means exhaustive lists, but in order to reconcile them, it is clear that there must be correct reasons for why we need to choose to be doers of the law, which is not in order to earn it as a wage. Our faith upholds God's law (Romas 3:31), so faith is a correct reason for why our salvation requires us to choose to obey it, which has nothing to do with incorrect reasons of boasting in ourselves or with trying to earn our salvation as a wage.

 

[Carl Emerson]

That might be true but I am not saying one can love others without Jesus love.

I am saying loving others is something one must still choose to do, after receiving Jesus love.

Is that a contradiction?

Not at all.

 

[Guojing]

Not at all.

So at the end of day, is loving others a choice by believers?

Can a believer choose not to love others?

 

[d taylor]

Why are you splitting hair there?

How about abide in death then?

Abiding in death, when a believer hates a fellow believer or does not love. They are acting like a murder who deals in death, so the believer is abiding in death.

Again this is a discipleship area of believers, this has nothing to do with an unbeliever and a condition they must do to receive God's free gift of eternal Life salvation.

 

[Carl Emerson]

So at the end of day, is loving others a choice by believers?

Can a believer choose not to love others?

A true believer ... No - However one may stray from the faith for a season and be restored.

 

[Guojing]

Abiding in death, when a believer hates a fellow believer or does not love. They are acting like a murder who deals in death, so the believer is abiding in death.

Again this is a discipleship area of believers, this has nothing to do with an unbeliever and a condition they must do to receive God's free gift of eternal Life salvation.

So to you, if a believer abides in death all the way to the end of his lifespan, does he still have God's free gift of eternal Life salvation?

 

[Guojing]

A true believer ... No - However one may stray from the faith for a season and be restored.

But how can a true believer stray away from the faith if he cannot choose not to love others?

 

[Carl Emerson]

But how can a true believer stray away from the faith if he cannot choose not to love others?

The Spirit of God constrains us and the fear of God seals us against remaining out of comunion with Him.

When I said we can choose not to love others - it is only for a season and He will bring us back after we learn the lessons of disobedience.

Again I refer to Paul excommunicating the young man and his eventual acceptance and return to faith.