Assumptions we make about God.

[Oblio]

Then WHERE is this body?

At the right hand of the Father

 

[CaDan]

His body is where ever He wishes it to be.

But this is not how "bodies", as we generally understand the term, behave. Bodies have a location, both spatially and temporally.

 

[CaDan]

At the right hand of the Father

Where's that?

 

[CaDan]

*Snack Break!*

Before we all start really pounding on this issue, let's all take a deep breath, say a little prayer, have a snack, and pledge to "be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you." Eph 4:32.

 

[Crazy Liz]

*Snack Break!*

Shoo-fly pie is being served at The Barnraising.

 

[Oblio]

So, when Christ comes again (as he ascended) to judge the living and the dead, he will not have a body ? If He does, and he is bodiless now, when (and how) does He get His new body ? If he does not have a body, how is it that we are sanctified with Him as we speak at the right hand of the Father ? When did He lose His dual nature, 100% God and 100% man ?

 

[CaDan]

So, when Christ comes again (as he ascended) to judge the living and the dead, he will not have a body ?

The Ascension, AS DESCRIBED, is obviously mythological. God does not live beyond the vault of the sky. If Jesus ascended (lower case) solely as described, He might achieve orbit, but he would not achieve Heaven.

I don't know how Jesus will look at his return. I know how John of Patmos envisioned it, but I do not think we will really understand it until it is complete. THEN we will look back and say, "O! That's what John meant there."

If He does, and he is bodiless now, when (and how) does He get His new body ?

I don't assume He will have a new body, at least not a "body" we would normally recognize as a body.

If he does not have a body, how is it that we are sanctified with Him as we speak at the right hand of the Father ?

I don't know what the antecedent and the consequent in this statement have to do with each other. I don't even know how my VCR works; I don't think I am competent to explain how sanctification works.

I don't think ANYBODY really knows. Certainly Paul and the author of Hebrews have different theories. Compare Eph. 5:26 (sanctification through water) with Heb. 13:12 (sanctification through blood).

When did He lose His dual nature, 100% God and 100% man ?

I don't know for sure. Either at Resurrection or Ascension, I suspect.

 

[Oblio]

I don't know what the antecedent and the consequent in this statement have to do with each other. I don't even know how my VCR works; I don't think I am competent to explain how sanctification works.

I wasn't expecting an explanation of Sanctification. We are sanctified because He took on flesh and descended to Hades to defeat death by death, and was Resurrected as flesh.

Please show us Scripture where he cast off His flesh

 

[CaDan]

I wasn't expecting an explanation of Sanctification. We are sanctified because He took on flesh and descended to Hades to defeat death by death, and was Resurrected as flesh.

Please show us Scripture where he cast off His flesh

I Cor. 15:35-50.

Paul is not completely clear in this passage. It appears to me he is trying to refute the idea that resurrection is some sort of transformation into nirvana where there is a loss of self. However, he does make a distinction between the current state of bodies and their future state. Note particularly that between vs. 40 and 49 he does not use the word sark --flesh--but instead begins talking about soma--body, in the generic sense (like planetary bodies or bodies of water). Paul comes back to sark in v. 50-- "Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption."

Paul is doing the best he can to explain here in an occasional writing what he understands. It is far from a fully developed Christology.

 

[KagomeShuko]

This is all just more proof we cannot, as humans, fully understand the nature of God. . .ever. . .

Stein Auf!
Bridget

 

[nephilimiyr]

Most people assume that God is a person like us. What if God is not a person with a long beard like many people imagine but a 'thing' that in these bodies we just can't fathom. All powerfull all knowing, we make assumptions based on this world and heaven and god and the soul don't probably work like this world, they could well work in ways that are very incomprihensible (how ever you spell it) too us... does anyone have any thoughs on this.

So God doesn't have a personality but is a thing?

From the time I accepted Christ as my Lord and saviour I have known him as my father and King. He's wonderful, glorious, holy and righteous, victorious, conjurer, triumphant, mighty, healer, deliverer, omniscient, omnipresent. He's the Alfa/Omega and Lord of the Redeamed. Best of all he's my hero and my best friend!!!

I agree that there are many things we can't begin to fathom about God but what I do fathom is all I need.

 

[Oblio]

Paul is doing the best he can to explain here in an occasional writing what he understands. It is far from a fully developed Christology.

You may believe that St. Paul does not have a fully developed Christiology, but the Church that He and the Apostles and the Church Fathers established does and fully understands what Christ, St. Paul et. al. were speaking of.

 

[countrymousenc]

His body is where ever He wishes it to be.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Lotar again.

Rep nazis. I like your answer!

(I feel the coining of a term coming on... how about "hyperrationalism." Like, Christ can't have a body if we don't know where it is. Humph.)

 

[CaDan]

Rep nazis. I like your answer!

(I feel the coining of a term coming on... how about "hyperrationalism." Like, Christ can't have a body if we don't know where it is. Humph.)

Some of us DO worry about things like that. You can make up whatever name you like for it and I'll wear it.

 

[CaDan]

You may believe that St. Paul does not have a fully developed Christiology, but the Church that He and the Apostles and the Church Fathers established does and fully understands what Christ, St. Paul et. al. were speaking of.

I am not Orthodox. A simple invocation of the Church does not convince me or advance the discussion.

Do any of the Church Fathers indicate that Jesus NOW has a body and flesh AS WE UNDERSTAND those terms, i.e., not a "spiritual" body that is intrinsically different from ours?

 

[Crazy Liz]

Let me try to summarize, and correct me if I'm wrong.

Cray and CaDan both think the Divine Logos (trying to come up with the least personal designation I can) no longer has a body.

Cray also thinks God does not have a personality.

CaDan has not said whether he thinks God has a personality.

Are we debating here about whether God is personal, or just over whether God is physical?

 

[CaDan]

Let me try to summarize, and correct me if I'm wrong.

Cray and CaDan both think the Divine Logos (trying to come up with the least personal designation I can) no longer has a body.

Cray also thinks God does not have a personality.

CaDan has not said whether he thinks God has a personality.

Are we debating here about whether God is personal, or just over whether God is physical?

I'm firmly in the personal camp. I am not in the physical camp. God is not a being; God is BEING.

 

[xenia]

God the Father is not a human, but He is a Person.

Personhood =/= Humaness, necessarily.

For instance, an angel is a person but is not a human.

A cat is neither human nor person.

An unborn baby is a human and a person.

All humans are persons but not all persons are human.

Jesus is a Person who is 100% God and 100% human.

I suspect that the OP might have been meaning to say that God the Father is not human, rather than suggesting He is not a Person?

-Xenia

 

[Cray]

Cray also thinks God does not have a personality.



I didn't say that. Did I?

 

[Oblio]

Yet we know that Christ became flesh (c.f. Holy Scripture). We have no Scripture that says He lost or cast off His flesh. Therefore, any conjecture that He does not have a real physical body is by definition extraBiblical and in the absence of Holy Tradition that affirms such it is simply a heterodox belief rather than the truth revealed to us through the word of God.