Assume you are wrong.

[IamAdopted]

Now this really isn't true is it? What about the visions of Ellen White, you trust those don't you?

Who is Ellen white?

 

[Benedicta00]

Who is Ellen white?

You know what? Why don't you just come clean and clarify what exactly you follow?

because I A) can not understand for the life of me why you hide it? Are you ashamed or are you hiding a agenda??

and B) I am not a denomination expert. i couldn't possibly be able to keep up with all the different beliefs (bible only of course) that are out there.

So make it easy for us and be honest and clarify your beliefs so we do not speculate and misrepresent you.

Are you SDA? Or are you independent but have SDA influence?? What are you? Do you read the bible and are, IAA, church of one.

 

[Benedicta00]

Tee hee.. okay.. Yes Jesus is the head of His Church His body. I put my faith in the head. I look to Jesus the author and the finisher of my faith. Not the Church. I am part of the body. For the Lord is my helper and my strength. Those who look upon the Lord shall renew their strength they shall rise up with birds of and eagle. They shall run and not be weary they shall walk and not faint.. He is my strong tower.. I can run into Him and not be afraid. So Jesus is my rock. He is my foundation and in His word I trust..

Tee hee. I know it's hard making up stuff as we go along.

 

[IamAdopted]

You know what? Why don't you just come clean and clarify what exactly you follow?

because I A) can not understand for the life of me why you hide it? Are you ashamed or are you hiding a agenda??

and B) I am not a denomination expert. i couldn't possibly be able to keep up with all the different beliefs (bible only of course) that are out there.

So make it easy for us and be honest and clarify your beliefs so we do not speculate and misrepresent you.

Are you SDA? Or are you independent but have SDA influence?? What are you? Do you read the bible and are, IAA, church of one.

I believe in Christ and His word. I have a wonderful church family. I have a pastor that Loves Jesus and preaches His word. I have a wonderful Father who directs my path and a wonderful Lord Who saved me and called me His own. I am washed in the blood of Jesus and follow after His written word trusting what He was said in His word as truth. Thank you for your concern. I don't know an Ellen white. Never heard of this person. I hadn't even heard of Luther until I came on this forum.. But I do know Christ.. And I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ. For it has the power of salvation..

 

[IamAdopted]

You know what? Why don't you just come clean and clarify what exactly you follow?

because I A) can not understand for the life of me why you hide it? Are you ashamed or are you hiding a agenda??

and B) I am not a denomination expert. i couldn't possibly be able to keep up with all the different beliefs (bible only of course) that are out there.

So make it easy for us and be honest and clarify your beliefs so we do not speculate and misrepresent you.

Are you SDA? Or are you independent but have SDA influence?? What are you? Do you read the bible and are, IAA, church of one.

What have I hidden?

 

[ScottBot]

Repentant, Jesus built his Church on Peter and the rest of the 12 but Peter was given special authority and that's apparent when reading scripture, especially Acts.

And corroberated by the ECFs.

 

[Benedicta00]

What have I hidden?

I don't know... I'm trying to get a handle on your beliefs but I can't because you will allude to one thing like SDAism and then distance yourself from it. It's almost as if you are playing games.

Take yesterday, you was preachin it like a true Calvinist, so I don't know what you are. To me, it looks like you just make up stuff as you go along and then change your tune when we point out the scripture that contradicts your assertions and premises.

Look, no offense to you but my conlusion is you are your own pope, you are your own denomination. What you say goes apparently. Like I said, you are IAA, church of one.

 

[IamAdopted]

I don't know... I'm trying to get a handle on your beliefs but I can't because you will allude to one thing like SDAism and then distance yourself from it. It's almost as if you are playing games.

Take yesterday, you was preachin it like a true Calvinist, so I don't know what you are. To me, it looks like you just make up stuff as you go along and then change your tune when we point out the scripture that contradicts your assertions and premises.

Look, no offense to you but my conlusion is you are your own pope, you are your own denomination. What you say goes apparently. Like I said, you are IAA, church of one.

I don't hold to any denomination. The church I attend is non denominational. I don't stand alone Bene.. I believe the word as it is written. I believe in predestination if that is what you ask. I don't know what SDA means so I can't comment on that one. I don't even know what a calvinist is.. So does this help?

 

[IamAdopted]

I don't know... I'm trying to get a handle on your beliefs but I can't because you will allude to one thing like SDAism and then distance yourself from it. It's almost as if you are playing games.

Take yesterday, you was preachin it like a true Calvinist, so I don't know what you are. To me, it looks like you just make up stuff as you go along and then change your tune when we point out the scripture that contradicts your assertions and premises.

Look, no offense to you but my conlusion is you are your own pope, you are your own denomination. What you say goes apparently. Like I said, you are IAA, church of one.

I would never want to be a pope because I don't believe in a pope. I am not my own church for I am part of the body of christ. I may be just a eyelash in this body for all I know but I do know that Christ lives in Me. I do know that God is the Author of the bible. I believe every word of this bible and I don't need to explain it away to fit some dogma or doctrine that don't line up with the bible. If God says it I believe it and that settles it.

 

[Benedicta00]

I don't hold to any denomination. The church I attend is non denominational. I don't stand alone Bene.. I believe the word as it is written. I believe in predestination if that is what you ask. I don't know what SDA means so I can't comment on that one. I don't even know what a calvinist is.. So does this help?

Then you should really look into what you believe and why and look into the origins of your own church because I'm telling you what ever church is teaching you this stuff they aren't original, they're taking a little from here and a little from there from different denominations

Meaning, non denominational is when a pastor sets up shop and picks and chooses which beliefs he will incorporate.

You seem to be more SDA than anything. You really should look into the origins of all these beliefs and you'll come to realize that the were all man made. Soul sleep comes from Ellen White, it was not believed prior.

The type of predestinaton where God choose before hand who will be saved and who will be damned with out our having any say in the matter, came from John Calvin in the 16 century, that wasn't believed prior either.

1. Source of Authority. Ellen G. White claimed to be, "a lesser light to lead men and women to the greater light." The official SDA Questions on Doctrine (Q.D.) states that, "the Holy Spirit opened to her mind important events and called her to give certain instructions for these last days, and inasmuch as these instructions, in our understanding, are in harmony with the Word of God, which Word alone is able to make us wise unto salvation, we as a denomination accept them as inspired counsels from the Lord" (Q.D., p. 93). (Emphasis added.) Mrs. White claimed to have received more than 3,000 "inspired counsels from the Lord" (i.e., visions) between 1844 and 1868. (From these "visions," she produced over 100,000 handwritten manuscript pages from which were published 54 books!) Therefore, SDAs have a new source of authority in their lives -- according to SDA's dogma, if an SDA does not accept Mrs. White as infallible, they have no salvation!

2. Mankind. Seventh-Day Adventists do not believe that the whole man or any part of him is inherently "immortal" (Q.D., p. 518). SDAs believe in "soul sleep" for the saved (i.e., no conscious existence from the time of death until the resurrection), and annihilation for the wicked (i.e., the body and soul are destroyed at death rather than experiencing everlasting torment). How, then, can one get to heaven?: SDAs believe that one can have immortality only on the condition that he comes to Christ through Ellen G. White; i.e., a works program, following salvation by grace with light of revelation through Ellen G. White as the infallible guide to Holy Scripture, apart from which one cannot have immortality.3 Then, at resurrection day, the body will be re-created (necessary because of soul sleep) for all those who believe in White's guidance and teachings (while non-SDAs will remain in "soul sleep" forever; i.e., will cease to exist [annihilated] and will not suffer everlasting torment).

3. Christ. Mrs. White: "Christ took upon His sinless nature our sinful nature ... Christ took human nature and bore the infirmities and degeneracy of the race. He took our nature and its deteriorating condition" (Q.D., pp. 654-656) (cf. Jn. 14:30). According to SDA, then, Christ acquired a sinful nature! Of course, if this could have been so, there could have been no sinless sacrifice, no hope for sinners, and no Savior.4. Atonement. "Now, while our great High Priest is making the atonement for us, we should seek to become perfect in Christ" (E.G. White, The Great Controversy [TGC], 1911, p. 623; TGC has since been retitled and published as America in Prophecy, 1988). SDA teaches that, though saved by grace, we are kept by the Law (i.e., "partial atonement"). Therefore, one must keep Old Testament dietary and ceremonial laws, paying particular attention to keep the Saturday Sabbath and the Ten Commandments, and most importantly, making sure to faithfully pay the tithe.

Even when speaking of being saved by the righteousness of Christ, Adventist writers refer to imparted righteousness, seldom to the Biblical concept of imputed righteousness. Calling it "Christ's righteousness," while insisting on the believer's perfection of character as a prerequisite to salvation, is at worst a thinly veiled works salvation, or at best an attempt to mix grace and works, something the Bible says is impossible to do (Rom. 11:6). Mrs. White's words are crystal clear -- one will not be forgiven until all sins are eradicated from one's life and one's character is perfected. Precisely the same heresy is found (besides many others) in Mormonism. It is not the salvation by grace alone through faith alone offered in the Bible.

5. Baptism. "… Christ made it clear that He required baptism of those who wished to become part of His church, His spiritual kingdom"; "In baptism believers enter into the passion experience of our Lord"; "… aptism also marks [a] person's entrance into Christ's spiritual kingdom. … it unites the new believer to Christ.… Through baptism the Lord adds the new disciples to the body of believers -- His body, the church.… Then they are members of God's family" (SDAs Believe …, pp. 182, 184, 187).

6. The Investigative Judgment. According to SDA theology, beginning on October 22, 1844, Christ entered upon the "judgment phase" of His ministry, whereby He blots out sin: [The SDA doctrine of the "Investigative Judgment" rests on Ellen G. White's claimed revelation that Christ entered the heavenly Holy of Holies, not at His ascension, but in 1844, wherein He then began to investigate the records of human works (TGC, pp. 362-373) (cf. Heb. 9).] "When Christ, by virtue of His own blood, removes the sins of His people from the heavenly sanctuary at the close of His ministration, He will place them upon Satan, who, in the execution of the judgment, must bear the final penalty" (TGC, p. 422). Satan, thereby, becomes the scapegoat of Leviticus 16. This lack of clear distinction between the forgiveness of sins and the blotting out of sins, makes it impossible for anyone to know, even in the hour of his death, whether he is saved or not. (SDAs are not "allowed" to experience assurance of salvation, because then there would be no pressure on them to keep the Old Testament law, as interpreted by Ellen G. White, and especially no pressure to pay the tithe.) Moreover, the concept that the sins of all men are to be laid on Satan, assigns to Satan an indispensable role in the blotting out of sin, thus nullifying the all-sufficiency of the finished work of Christ. [When Jesus said on the cross, "It is finished," i.e. completed, paid in full, it cannot be that there is yet another salvation event more than 1,800 years later, just as essential to salvation as Christ's death on the cross, in which one must believe in order to be saved. This is clearly "another gospel" (Gal. 1:6–9).]4

The "Investigative Judgment" and the "Scapegoat Theory of the Atonement" are, by themselves, so non-Biblical as to contradict Galatians 1:8-9. It is "another gospel," about which the Apostle Paul wrote, "let such be anathema" (i.e., cursed/condemned). Yet according to Ellen White, one must believe this doctrine to be saved:

"Those who would share the benefits of the Savior's mediation should permit nothing to interfere with their duty to perfect holiness in the fear of God … The subject of the sanctuary and the Investigative Judgment should be clearly understood by the people of God. All need a knowledge for themselves of the position [in the Holy of Holies] and work [Investigative Judgment] of their great High Priest. Otherwise it will be impossible for them to exercise the faith which is essential at this time or to occupy the position which God designs for them to fill. Every individual has a soul to save or to lose. Each has a case pending at the bar of God … All who have received the light on these subjects are to bear testimony of the great truths which God has committed to them. The sanctuary in heaven is the very center of Christ's work in behalf of men … It is of the utmost importance that all should thoroughly investigate these subjects … The intercession of Christ in man's behalf in the sanctuary above is as essential to the plan of salvation as was His death upon a cross. By His death He began that work which after his resurrection He ascended to complete in Heaven" (TGC, pp. 488–89; emphasis added).

7. The Sabbath. "In the last days, the Sabbath test will be made plain. When this time comes, anyone who does not keep the Sabbath will receive the mark of the beast and will be kept from heaven" (TGC, p. 449); "… [T]he divine institution of the Sabbath is to be restored … The delivering of this message will precipitate a conflict that will involve the whole world. The central issue will be obedience to God's law and the observance of the Sabbath. … Those who reject it will eventually receive the mark of the beast" (TGC, pp. 262–63). In one of her most revered works, Ellen White wrote that Sabbath observance would be the "line of distinction" in the "final test" that will separate God's end-time people who "receive the seal of God" and are saved, from those who "receive the mark of the beast" (The Great Controversy Between Christ and Satan, p. 605). Describing a supposed vision direct from God, Ellen White wrote, "I saw that the Holy Sabbath is, and will be, the separating wall between the true Israel of God and unbelievers" (Early Writings, p. 33; emphasis added). She also wrote of some Adventists failing to understand that "Sabbath … observance was of sufficient importance to draw a line between the people of God and unbelievers" (Ibid., p. 85).

SDAs have, thereby, made Sabbath-keeping a criterion for a personal relationship with the Lord -- even to the extent of one's salvation! Why? Because, according to SDAs, we are all to be under strict adherence to Old Testament Law, including the Ten Commandments, of which the fourth one says, "keep the Sabbath." (This Sabbath-keeping requirement was supposedly confirmed in a vision received by Ellen G. White, rather than by study of the Bible.) SDAs believe that "Sunday-keeping" will be the mark of the beast in the future.

8. Ellen G. White, the Prophet. Many rank-and-file SDA members deny that their organization any longer decrees Ellen G. White a God-inspired prophet. Yet in SDA official publications, the SDA church continues to defend Ellen White legends, and maintain there was no difference in the degree of inspiration she received from that received by Bible writers (Review & Herald, 4 October 1928, p. 11; "Source of Final Appeal," Adventist Review, 3 June 1971, pp. 4–6; G. A. Irwin, Mark of the Beast, p. 1; "The Inspiration and Authority of the Ellen G. White Writings," Adventist Review, 15 July 1982, p. 3; Ministry, October 1981, p. 8 (5); see also, Judged by the Gospel, pp. 125–130). And in the SDA June 2000, General Conference, the church voted to more aggressively affirm and support the "Spirit of Prophecy through the ministry of Ellen White" (Adventist Today, [online: July 2000]).


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

* Besides relying heavily on the work of Dr. Whitcomb (1988 Syllabus notes), some of the material in this report has also been excerpted and or adapted from: "Seventh-day Adventist Church Profile," Timothy Oliver (Watchman Fellowship Profile, 1996).

Tell me if you disgree with any of thses beliefs. You look to me like you believe in 2 and 3.

 

[Benedicta00]

I would never want to be a pope because I don't believe in a pope. I am not my own church for I am part of the body of christ. I may be just a eyelash in this body for all I know but I do know that Christ lives in Me. I do know that God is the Author of the bible. I believe every word of this bible and I don't need to explain it away to fit some dogma or doctrine that don't line up with the bible. If God says it I believe it and that settles it.

I mean you are your own pope as in you are the one who gets to teach yourself infallibly.

 

[IamAdopted]

I mean you are your own pope as in you are the one who gets to teach yourself infallibly.

No Bene. The Holy Spirit teaches me as I read the bible. I read my bible with an open heart. Allowing God to teach me His word. It is a life time adventure. Praise God for brothers and sisters in the Lord if I don't understand something we can dig into the scriptures together and the Holy Spirit reveals His word..I need my brothers and sisters in the Lord.

10 If one falls down,
his friend can help him up.
But pity the man who falls
and has no one to help him up!
11 Also, if two lie down together, they will keep warm.
But how can one keep warm alone? 12 Though one may be overpowered,
two can defend themselves.
A cord of three strands is not quickly broken.

 

[Benedicta00]

Please respond to my other post- are you a SDA or do you just believe in their doctrines that came from Ellen Wihite?

 

[Benedicta00]

Well the Holy Spirit speaks to me too and he also teaches me things, he has taught me that Catholicism is Christs' true Church.

Now how are we going to settle who is follow the HS and who is following their own human spirit or worse, a evil one?

 

[IamAdopted]

Please respond to my other post- are you a SDA or do you just believe in their doctrines that came from Ellen Wihite?

I did respond to you. I don't know what a SDA is.. I don't even know what a calvanist is.. How can I answer what you ask if I don't have a clue what you are asking me.. I don't know no Ellen person. Never heard of this person.

 

[Uphill Battle]

Well the Holy Spirit speaks to me too and he also teaches me things, he has taught me that Catholicism is Christs' true Church.

Now how are we going to settle who is follow the HS and who is following their own human spirit or worse, a evil one?

I would think that scripture would be a good benchmark to use.

 

[IamAdopted]

Well the Holy Spirit speaks to me too and he also teaches me things, he has taught me that Catholicism is Christs' true Church.

Now how are we going to settle who is follow the HS and who is following their own human spirit or worse, a evil one?

He teaches me out of the Bible Bene.. If what I hear does not line up with scripture then I know that it is not of God. We are told to test the spirits to see if they are of God. How do we test them if we have nothing to test them against? God does not contradict His word.. Therefore if something does not line up with scripture I toss it. For God has given me the plumb line to test with and to line my life up with. His written word.

 

[Benedicta00]

I would think that scripture would be a good benchmark to use.

Well who's going to get to be the one who decides who interpreting it correctly?

 

[Benedicta00]

I did respond to you. I don't know what a SDA is.. I don't even know what a calvanist is.. How can I answer what you ask if I don't have a clue what you are asking me.. I don't know no Ellen person. Never heard of this person.

I listed their core beliefs, you either believe in them or you don't. which is it?

 

[IamAdopted]

I listed their core beliefs, you either believe in them or you don't. which is it?

LOL... I must have missed that.. I believe in the bible Bene. Not in any denomination or what it may or may not stand for okay.