Assisted Suicide...

[stan1980]

Player's assisted suicide probed


Police are probing the death of a paralysed rugby player who travelled to a Swiss assisted suicide clinic.

Daniel James, 23, of Worcester, died on 12 September in a clinic where he had travelled with the intention of killing himself, an inquest heard.
West Mercia Police said a man and a woman had been questioned over his death.


Assisted suicides are illegal in the UK but are tolerated by the authorities in Switzerland.


Mr James played rugby for England Under 16s and England students and was tipped for a future in the professional game.


'Investigation ongoing'

But during a training session at Nuneaton Rugby Club he suffered a collapsed spine in a scrum in March 2007.


The former pupil at Worcester Royal Grammar School was paralysed from the chest down.


An inquest into his death was opened and adjourned on 19 September.
A trust set up in his name after his accident has raised nearly £25,000 for spinal research.
Det Insp Adrian Todd, of West Mercia Police, said: "A police investigation is ongoing and officers have spoken with a man and a woman in connection with the case.


"A report will later be submitted to the Crown Prosecution Service and an inquest into the death will take place in due course."


National referendum

BBC correspondent Imogen Foulkes, in Berne, said assisted suicide was a "grey area" under Swiss law.


She said it was permitted rather than legal, which allowed for a potentially very wide interpretation of what was allowed.


Dignitas, the clinic where all known British assisted suicides have taken place, offers help to people to end their lives if they are suffering a terminal illness, a chronic condition (including paralysis) or a mental illness.


The only stipulation is that a patient has expressed a wish to die and this has been certified by two doctors.


But the actions of Dignitas have provoked controversy and disquiet in Switzerland.


The issue of assisted suicide will be voted on in a national referendum, probably next year.


This is expected to restrict the practice to the terminally ill, and could prevent non-Swiss nationals from being helped to die.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hereford/worcs/7675745.stm

Surely no one has anything against this kind of assisted suicide, do they?

Personally, I can imagine this is probably the way I would like to go, if I become severely debilitated, so it's nice to know I'll be able go to Switzerland to make that happen (as long as someone helps me to get there!).

Bit silly though, that I would have to travel all that way.

 

[Psudopod]

Bit silly though, that I would have to travel all that way.

And you'd have to travel on your own because anyone who went with you would run the risk of being arrested on their return. Which might force you to end your life even more prematurely, because the last thing anyone wants when they are dying is to be worrying about their loved ones.

It's tragic that anyone should be in the postion where they want to give up their lives because their quality of living has degraded so far, but it does happen. Forcing people to live in pain and humilation isn't loving. There needs to be careful controls to make sure no one is ever pushed into suicide by a greedy family etc, and if even with assisted suicide there should always be paulative care as well - society needs both.

However if a compos mentis adult who is in full understanding of their condition and propects makes the decision that they would rather end their life early than continue living in pain and suffering, I don't think we should stand in their way.

 

[Matthewj1985]

I read this thread before leaving for work and thought about my response on the way in. Right off the bat as a civil libertarian I am inclined to say its YOUR life and no one elses, as long as you don't use a shotgun and leave a huge mess for your family to deal with then its your business.

On the other hand I know of a lot of people that would have ended it much earlier in their lives if it was as easy as going to the doctor. One case in particular is a young man I live next door to. At 16 years old he was in an accident (no fault of his) and left paralyzed from the neck down with limited arm and hand mobility. Right after the accident they actually called the family around because it didn't look like he was going to make it. After they were out of the woods of that he had a couple of problems that are common to people in his state which required him to stay in the hospital for about 6 months. About half way though that he went through about a week where he said he just wanted to die. He would refuse treatment as best he could because he was just tired of life. Granted he was 17 at the time and would not qualify as an adult but I can't say that at 23 I would feel differently. I can't imagine the burden I would put on my wife and on top of that she would never be able to be truly happy, I mean she would basically have an infant to look after.

Of course my neighbor is now a full time college student and from what I can tell is happy.

I will say though that I have no qualms about allowing terminal patients to do it. I mean what is the point of fighting stage 4 pancreatic cancer if you know that at most it will give you 6 more months? You know you are going to die, you just have months of chemo and radiation to look forward to. I am sure that everyone here has known at least one person who has had to take chemo, it is not a pretty sight.

In principle it should be legal for any adult of sound mind, in practice I would like to see it only be available to terminal patients.

 

[stan1980]

On the other hand I know of a lot of people that would have ended it much earlier in their lives if it was as easy as going to the doctor. One case in particular is a young man I live next door to. At 16 years old he was in an accident (no fault of his) and left paralyzed from the neck down with limited arm and hand mobility. Right after the accident they actually called the family around because it didn't look like he was going to make it. After they were out of the woods of that he had a couple of problems that are common to people in his state which required him to stay in the hospital for about 6 months. About half way though that he went through about a week where he said he just wanted to die. He would refuse treatment as best he could because he was just tired of life. Granted he was 17 at the time and would not qualify as an adult but I can't say that at 23 I would feel differently. I can't imagine the burden I would put on my wife and on top of that she would never be able to be truly happy, I mean she would basically have an infant to look after.

At the risk of sounding cold, lets say your neighbour did end his own life (with help), he can't change his mind once he's dead nor can he miss his own life, so even in that case I'd be fine if that is the decision he wants to make (although perhaps 1 week is too short a time to make a decision like that).

 

[The Nihilist]

Whatever, sepuku is the only way to kill yourself with dignity. All you have to do is convince your doctor to give you all the pain meds in the world. Well, unless you're paralyzed from the chest down, then it might not matter.

 

[LoisGriffin]

Its very sad. I still don't know which side I am on. He obviously wanted to die and couldn't do it himself. Anyone who helped him would get in trouble with the law.

He made the choice himself though and its his life. I do worry about those who cant make the choice themselves.

 

[Robbie_James_Francis]

I really can't see the point in stopping terminally ill consenting adults with the support of doctors from ending their lives at their own choosing and with some dignity.

But I think it's a bit more ambiguous in cases like this...it doesn't look like the man had a terminal condition.

It worries me too that Dignitas now provides euthanasia for people with mental illness, I have to say. I wonder what type of mental illness specifically it means.

 

[billwald]

Paying doctors to kill people is like paying the police to rob banks.

 

[Caylin]

So are you saying someone that is fatally ill and in a great deal of pain should just have to suffer?

 

[flicka]

I have no problem for those who are fatally ill or live in constant pain with no hope of relief or remission. While I don't like the idea of anyone being paid to help end someones life, under any circumstance, I am not going to make it my business to interfere with it. It's a MYOB issue.

 

[QuakerOats]

I agree with flicka.

 

[Zor]

Paying doctors to kill people is like paying the police to rob banks.

It's either:
1) Suicidal people paying doctors to kill them is like a bank paying the police to take money out of its vaults.
or
2) Hiring a doctor as a hit man, is like a bank-robber paying the police to take money out of its vaults.

If you mean 1, then I don't see the problem. The bank is asking the police to take its money.
If you mean 2, then you're not talking about the issue. Nobody's proposing that doctors become hitmen.

 

[stan1980]

An update on the story in case anyone is interested: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hereford/worcs/7676812.stm

I hope common sense prevails.

 

[DarkLegend28]

After watching my mother experience the slow and agonizing death of brain cancer... with her unable to do anything about it.. and watching her slowly lose her sanity and slowly reduce into that of a child throwing tantrums and fits and then into a mumbling vegetable, I see nothing wrong with assisted suicide. Sometimes death is just the better option than that. But when she attempted by herself at the dawn of her condition, they just stuck her in the hospital for a week and then sent her back home.

 

[Axioma]

Whatever, sepuku is the only way to kill yourself with dignity. All you have to do is convince your doctor to give you all the pain meds in the world. Well, unless you're paralyzed from the chest down, then it might not matter.

Don't you need an assistant for that, too?

 

[LoisGriffin]

After watching my mother experience the slow and agonizing death of brain cancer... with her unable to do anything about it.. and watching her slowly lose her sanity and slowly reduce into that of a child throwing tantrums and fits and then into a mumbling vegetable, I see nothing wrong with assisted suicide. Sometimes death is just the better option than that. But when she attempted by herself at the dawn of her condition, they just stuck her in the hospital for a week and then sent her back home.

This is why people who say its wrong most of the time know nothing. They do not understand how painful it is for everyone.

In the papers today there was a comment by a mother whos son was losing all his abilities and would eventually die. He didn't want to go through such an undignified death so she arranged for him to be taken to Switzerland for the assisted death. She said someone alerted the authorities and she would dearly love to speak to that person one day because the person did not have a clue how hard it is and she wanted them to know what they did was damaging to all.

Its a side note in this article http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ing-crippled-rugby-player-suicide-clinic.html called The Torment of a Mother.

 

[Jase]

It worries me too that Dignitas now provides euthanasia for people with mental illness, I have to say. I wonder what type of mental illness specifically it means.

Mental Illness can be far more painful than a physical illness. Speaking from personal experience, I live with more mental/emotional pain than most people can fathom. I've spent the last 10 years begging God for a terminal physical illness like cancer or a cerebral hemorrhage. At least with cancer, it's possible to reduce the pain with medication. The same can't be said of mental illness in many cases. Severe Clinical Depression is often considered terminal due to the high risk of suicide if it can't be treated properly.

 

[Robbie_James_Francis]

Mental Illness can be far more painful than a physical illness. Speaking from personal experience, I live with more mental/emotional pain than most people can fathom. I've spent the last 10 years begging God for a terminal physical illness like cancer or a cerebral hemorrhage. At least with cancer, it's possible to reduce the pain with medication. The same can't be said of mental illness in many cases. Severe Clinical Depression is often considered terminal due to the high risk of suicide if it can't be treated properly.

I'm not questioning the severity of mental illness, just saying that it mitigates the ability to fully consent to voluntary euthanasia.

I know personally a lot of the suffering of mental illness and have no doubt that it's just as horrific, if not more so, as many physical illnesses. But I keep the hope that, unlike very late stage cancer or MS, depression can be cured. The only thing that gets me out of bed in the morning a lot of the time is the idea that one day I won't be upset I've woken up and not died in my sleep, and look forward to something other than death.

I hope I can get through my depression though, so I wouldn't want the opportunity to kill myself because of mental illness be readily available in a pain-free, easy way. If it was available here for depression I would have died long ago rather than destroying my liver and stomach through numerous attempts at overdosing on painkillers and prescription drugs.

 

[brinny]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hereford/worcs/7675745.stm

Surely no one has anything against this kind of assisted suicide, do they?

Personally, I can imagine this is probably the way I would like to go, if I become severely debilitated, so it's nice to know I'll be able go to Switzerland to make that happen (as long as someone helps me to get there!).

Bit silly though, that I would have to travel all that way.

Look up Theresa Marie Schindler Schiavo. I can see a zillion loop-holes in this amigo.

 

[Robbie_James_Francis]

Look up Maria Schiavo Schindler. I can see a zillion loop-holes in this amigo.

Schiavo's case, IMO, was more straightforward. She could never have lived so what was the point of keeping her technically 'alive' but brain dead any longer?