Asking Christians: How is killing all the first born sons of egypt moral?

[Nyatalia]

According to my understanding, God punished them for enslaving jews, and this is one of the punishment. Why did God punishing innocent kids instead of adults who did the enslaving?

Some of the common responses are 1."Morality does not apply to God" If that's the case, how do to condemn jihad in Islam? They are not bound by morality because they believe God tell them to do it. 2."God is not supposed to be a role model" But Jesus is role model, And Jesus is God. 3."Grand plans, killing to the kids are necessary to achieve it" God is omnipotent. Hard to believe avoiding killing innocent kids is impossible for the omnipotent to achieve the grand place. Thank you for reading in advance. I got banned on another forum asking this.


Edit: question answered: God might killed the kids painlessly and sent them to heaven.

 

[Dansiph]

According to my understanding, God punished them for enslaving jews, and this is one of the punishment. Why did God punishing innocent kids instead of adults who did the enslaving?

Some of the common responses are 1."Morality does not apply to God" If that's the case, how do to condemn jihad in Islam? They are not bound by morality because they believe God tell them to do it. 2."God is not supposed to be a role model" But Jesus is role model, And Jesus is God. 3."Grand plans, killing to the kids are necessary to achieve it" God is omnipotent. Hard to believe avoiding killing innocent kids is impossible for the omnipotent to achieve the grand place. Thank you for reading in advance. I got banned on another forum asking this.

Welcome to the forum. I'll answer but first need to clarify you are looking for an answer and not just goading?

 

[Nyatalia]

Welcome to the forum. I'll answer but first need to clarify you are looking for an answer and not just goading?

I am not goading. Tell me a more polite way to ask the question? i can edit it.

 

[Dansiph]

I am not goading. Tell me a more polite way to ask the question? i can edit it.

It's ok. Sometimes there's just not a polite way to ask something like that. I simply believe God's way is perfect.

Psalms 18:30 KJV
(30) As for God, his way is perfect: the word of the LORD is tried: he is a buckler to all those that trust in him.

The reason I asked if you were goading is there just doesn't seem to be an answer which will be acceptable.

 

[J_B_]

According to my understanding, God punished them for enslaving jews, and this is one of the punishment. Why did God punishing innocent kids instead of adults who did the enslaving?

I'm not sure forum rules allow you to ask this question. It might be considered apologetics, and therefore may need to be asked in a different forum.

Regardless, I will point out one thing to start the conversation, then if necessary we can continue elsewhere. You have loaded the question by declaring the firstborn innocent (I underlined that word in quoting your post). That makes it impossible to answer your question. Therefore, we would have to begin with you proving your position that they are innocent. If you prove that, the answer is clear - it isn't moral. If they aren't innocent ... well, that sorta answers it as well.

Cutting to the chase, as long as you judge according to your moral standards, the answer will be based on your moral standards.

 

[Nyatalia]

I'm not sure forum rules allow you to ask this question. It might be considered apologetics, and therefore may need to be asked in a different forum.

Regardless, I will point out one thing to start the conversation, then if necessary we can continue elsewhere. You have loaded the question by declaring the firstborn innocent (I underlined that word in quoting your post). That makes it impossible to answer your question. Therefore, we would have to begin with you proving your position that they are innocent. If you prove that, the answer is clear - it isn't moral. If they aren't innocent ... well, that sorta answers it as well.

Cutting to the chase, as long as you judge according to your moral standards, the answer will be based on your moral standards.

I agree some of them are not innocent. But for the little kids, they are innocent of enslaving people. Therefore should not receive punishment for that reason, according to most legal systems in the world.

 

[J_B_]

I agree some of them are not innocent. But for the little kids, they are innocent of enslaving people. Therefore should not receive punishment for that reason, according to most legal systems in the world.

You already have your answer then, don't you? God is guilty of murder. What do you plan to do about that?

 

[-57]

According to my understanding, God punished them for enslaving jews, and this is one of the punishment. Why did God punishing innocent kids instead of adults who did the enslaving?

Some of the common responses are 1."Morality does not apply to God" If that's the case, how do to condemn jihad in Islam? They are not bound by morality because they believe God tell them to do it. 2."God is not supposed to be a role model" But Jesus is role model, And Jesus is God. 3."Grand plans, killing to the kids are necessary to achieve it" God is omnipotent. Hard to believe avoiding killing innocent kids is impossible for the omnipotent to achieve the grand place. Thank you for reading in advance. I got banned on another forum asking this.

It was more than enslaving Jews.

The adults in Egypt went through 9 plaques....each plaque was a judgment on a god...little g...that the Egyptians followed and worshipped.

The tenth and last plague, the death of the firstborn males, was a judgment on Isis, the protector of children. In this plague, God was teaching the Israelites a deep spiritual lesson that pointed to Christ.

In the end....they still refused to worship the one true God.

 

[Nyatalia]

It's ok. Sometimes there's just not a polite way to ask something like that. I simply believe God's way is perfect.

Psalms 18:30 KJV
(30) As for God, his way is perfect: the word of the LORD is tried: he is a buckler to all those that trust in him.

The reason I asked if you were goading is there just doesn't seem to be an answer which will be acceptable.

I can think of an acceptable reason for me. If those killed did something wrong before they are born(not sure if it is possible in Christianity). And they go to earth as those sons to receiving punishment. But i dont find this answer satisfying. So i ask here, Christians can give different answers. I find Christianity appealing, but the main hurdle is some of God's action seems immoral if done by a human.

 

[Tinker Grey]

According to my understanding, God punished them for enslaving jews, and this is one of the punishment. Why did God punishing innocent kids instead of adults who did the enslaving?

Some of the common responses are 1."Morality does not apply to God" If that's the case, how do to condemn jihad in Islam? They are not bound by morality because they believe God tell them to do it. 2."God is not supposed to be a role model" But Jesus is role model, And Jesus is God. 3."Grand plans, killing to the kids are necessary to achieve it" God is omnipotent. Hard to believe avoiding killing innocent kids is impossible for the omnipotent to achieve the grand place. Thank you for reading in advance. I got banned on another forum asking this.

Because the Bible considers the death of children property damage.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

The first born in the bible is Cain. Christ came as the redeemer. When viewed as God communicating with mankind as to His plan for the world to be set right with Him again then it's not so difficult to answer. The problems are developed by leaving God out of the equation. To do so one needs to think in the mind of Christ and not lean on one's understanding. Leave God out of the equation and you have speculation. Include God in the equation and His plan unfolds in history and is accomplished outside of history.

 

[Dansiph]

I can think of an acceptable reason for me. If those killed did something wrong before they are born(not sure if it is possible in Christianity). And they go to earth as those sons to receiving punishment. But i dont find this answer satisfying. So i ask here, Christians can give different answers. I find Christianity appealing, but the main hurdle is some of God's action seems immoral if done by a human.

I'm not saying this is definitely true but it's possible those children are in heaven and he was punishing the adults.

It would be better to focus on the gospel initially if you are finding Christianity appealing. God's mercy. None of us deserve to go to heaven. But, through Jesus Christ we can obtain mercy.

 

[Nyatalia]

You already have your answer then, don't you? God is guilty of murder. What do you plan to do about that?

I dont want to think God is guilty of

You already have your answer then, don't you? God is guilty of murder. What do you plan to do about that?

I ask because i dont want to think God committed murder of innocents. There has to be an explanation

 

[2PhiloVoid]

According to my understanding, God punished them for enslaving jews, and this is one of the punishment. Why did God punishing innocent kids instead of adults who did the enslaving?

Some of the common responses are 1."Morality does not apply to God" If that's the case, how do to condemn jihad in Islam? They are not bound by morality because they believe God tell them to do it. 2."God is not supposed to be a role model" But Jesus is role model, And Jesus is God. 3."Grand plans, killing to the kids are necessary to achieve it" God is omnipotent. Hard to believe avoiding killing innocent kids is impossible for the omnipotent to achieve the grand place. Thank you for reading in advance. I got banned on another forum asking this.

God didn't punish the Egyptian children. Rather, God demonstrated to Pharoah (and his minions) just who the true God, Author and Sovereign of Life and Death really is.

As Creator (and not just as some secondary 'pro-creator' as we tend to think of ourselves), God has the right to take human life in the fashion and for the purposes that He thinks is necessary. This isn't much different than what we see illustrated prophetically in the rest of the Bible.

 

[J_B_]

I ask because i dont want to think God committed murder of innocents. There has to be an explanation

Did you see the reply from @Aspzan ? It's the best short answer you will get. Anything else will require a much longer discussion, which is best done in person with the Christians who live near you.

However, what is included in that answer are these principles:
1) Death is not the ultimate punishment
1) Death does not mean they were sent to hell. They could be in heaven.
2) If they were to live not knowing God, they would have ended up in hell, which is far worse.

 

[Nyatalia]

I'm not saying this is definitely true but it's possible those children are in heaven and he was punishing the adults.

It would be better to focus on the gospel initially if you are finding Christianity appealing. God's mercy. None of us deserve to go to heaven. But, through Jesus Christ we can obtain mercy.

I agree killing them and send them to heaven is possible. And God can make them not feel the pain dying. And there is nothing wrong with it. Thank you for reminding me this.

But there is a problem about jihad. If they claim(which they dont) people dying of jihad feels no pain and go to heaven. We cant refute them. Both side can say we trust our God fully and there is no room for agreement.

 

[Nyatalia]

Did you see the reply from @Aspzan ? It's the best short answer you will get. Anything else will require a much longer discussion, which is best done in person with the Christians who live near you.

However, what is included in that answer are these principles:
1) Death is not the ultimate punishment
1) Death does not mean they were sent to hell. They could be in heaven.
2) If they were to live not knowing God, they would have ended up in hell, which is far worse.

I did, he/she gives good answers.

 

[J_B_]

But there is a problem about jihad. If they claim(which they dont) people dying of jihad feels no pain and go to heaven. We cant refute them. Both side can say we trust our God fully and there is no room for agreement.

Yes, there will be no end to people arguing about such things. You'll never be able to stop it. Simply love them as best you can.

 

[tbstor]

If those killed did something wrong before they are born(not sure if it is possible in Christianity). And they go to earth as those sons to receiving punishment. But i dont find this answer satisfying. So i ask here, Christians can give different answers. I find Christianity appealing, but the main hurdle is some of God's action seems immoral if done by a human.

You raise a good point. My understanding of reformed theology is that all of man is totally depraved. John Calvin (16th century) wrote the following on the topic:

For our nature is not only utterly devoid of goodness, but so prolific in all kinds of evil, that it can never be idle. Those who term it concupiscence use a word not very inappropriate, provided it were added, (this, however, many will by no means concede,) that everything which is in man, from the intellect to the will, from the soul even to the flesh, is defiled and pervaded with this concupiscence; or, to express it more briefly, that the whole man is in himself nothing else than concupiscence. (Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 2, Chapter 1, Section 8)​

In the same vein, Jonathan Edwards (18th century) said the following in his famous sermon "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God": "There is nothing that keeps wicked men at any one moment out of hell, but the mere pleasure of God." With this view in mind, it isn't particularly difficult to say that (within the reformed tradition) "those killed did something wrong before they are born." Well, that may not be quite accurate. It would be more accurate to say that those killed were condemned by their very nature.

Let's refer to the Biblical narrative of the Exodus. We read in Exodus 9:12-16 (KJV):

12 And the Lord hardened the heart of Pharaoh, and he hearkened not unto them; as the Lord had spoken unto Moses.

13 And the Lord said unto Moses, Rise up early in the morning, and stand before Pharaoh, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord God of the Hebrews, Let my people go, that they may serve me.

14 For I will at this time send all my plagues upon thine heart, and upon thy servants, and upon thy people; that thou mayest know that there is none like me in all the earth.

15 For now I will stretch out my hand, that I may smite thee and thy people with pestilence; and thou shalt be cut off from the earth.

16 And in very deed for this cause have I raised thee up, for to shew in thee my power; and that my name may be declared throughout all the earth.​

It would appear that God purposefully made Pharaoh refuse to release His people. This was done so that the power of God may be revealed throughout all the earth. And this, of course, is perfectly acceptable if one adopts the view of total depravity.

 

[Dansiph]

I agree killing them and send them to heaven is possible. And God can make them not feel the pain dying. And there is nothing wrong with it. Thank you for reminding me this.

But there is a problem about jihad. If they claim(which they dont) people dying of jihad feels no pain and go to heaven. We cant refute them. Both side can say we trust our God fully and there is no room for agreement.

As I said though, it's better to focus on the gospel, or "good news".

Ultimately Islam to me is lacking and I think if you were to criticise both Christianity and Islam equally it'd be apparent Christianity was more likely true.

The thing is we please God by faith according to the Bible. Faith in the gospel is where it all starts.