Ask the pagan

[Völuspá]

1. The suffering of innocent people in the world
2. The wicked who always prosper and live happy, whilst the poor and righteous often suffer and are victims of cruel incidents to them. What are your views on these?
I think a lot of times we just pay more attention when something bad happens to a good person. I don't try to make sense of it. Life is just as it is. It can be divine for all I know and not be very nice. An interesting thing within Paganism is the acceptance of light and dark as equally important aspects of life. Of course it's very hard to remain objective when horrible things are happening to us, but that just makes it even more interesting to ponder the nature of the divine.. perhaps it's more heartless side.

Some of you mentioned sin phrased as "the Creator's rules being broken by His followers, e.g. Christianity, Jews, Islam". The Hindu believe in Karma where if evil is done this life, there is a next life where the soul repays the evil karma.
2.a) Based on these, do you have a sort of instinct within you or your practises that you feel guilty to do evil to others around you? What makes you avoid evil?
Although I was not raised this way I do have a fledgling sense of honor and reputation which is very important within my tradition. I also think doing the right thing is what the gods expect of me (and what's worse than earning the gods' disrespect?) ...And of course on the most mundane level I have compassion and empathy and don't want to wind up in jail.

3. Is your body just a body? Do you believe you have a soul within you. What are you within the flesh? Can the Spirit live or just die when you die?
I used to think I was strictly flesh and that was fine (no less spiritual for me,) but sometimes I don't know. Maybe there's another perfectly natural part of us that's just really bizarre.

4. I still don't get the idea of afterlife in pagan beliefs. How do you view a death of your family member who is Pagan. Is it the end?
As far as I know, anything could happen. I don't think about it too much though. It's quite possible this life is all there is, which would be fine (and a lot less scary than some other things that could happen.)

5. What exactly do you think you were born for? Your purpose on earth as mankind?
I don't know. The future is unwritten.

 

[Kaonashi]

What kind of ice cream do Pagans like?

 

[Gardenia]

What kind of ice cream do Pagans like?

Well, personally, I like black raspberry, frozen pudding, peppermint stick, and good old vanilla.

 

[Völuspá]

I don't like ice cream. I am colorless.

 

[Steezie]

I'm lactose intolerant

I think I'm actually allergic to lactose as lactase pills dont seem to help

 

[Völuspá]

I'm lactose intolerant

Hey, you're not missing out (I'm actually vegan.) I do sorta like Turtle Mountain soy ice cream. I just don't really eat it. But I also noticed that the closest thing to "comfort food" I've bought for myself in a while was natural peanut butter (which I also don't really eat,) so maybe my life is just bland.

 

[Steezie]

Hey, you're not missing out (I'm actually vegan.) I do sorta like Turtle Mountain soy ice cream. I just don't really eat it. But I also noticed that the closest thing to "comfort food" I've bought for myself in a while was natural peanut butter (which I also don't really eat,) so maybe my life is just bland.

The last soy icecream I had tasted like crap. It was horrific stuff that made me genuinely nauseous to taste it. I've never had much luck with ANY vegan foods.

 

[Völuspá]

The last soy icecream I had tasted like crap. It was horrific stuff that made me genuinely nauseous to taste it. I've never had much luck with ANY vegan foods.

If it was Tofutti, I agree, but it's a quirky market and some of the good stuff gets hidden. Soy is an incredibly versatile food, and I'm highly skeptical that it's all crap, not to mention there's coconut ice cream that I hear is great. But whatever. I was just offering a suggestion.

 

[Fuzzy]

i like most of the ben and jerry's line. then there's the dairy and gluten free stuff the wife makes at home, usually chocolate, that's good, but really kicks up with melted peanut butter or chipotle sauce on top.

 

[sidhe]

What kind of ice cream do Pagans like?

A local grocery store has a store brand flavor which I adore - mint moose tracks. Mint ice cream with mini peppermint-chocolate patties and a ribbon of fudge. It's like heaven.

 

[morningstar2651]

I read the thread and it kind of seems interesting because the Bible does speak about Pagans in which I was always wondering what they were, their beliefs, etc... and since they existed from ancient times, I just need to know. I've grasped a basic picture of paganism from the thread.

How do pagans view these;

Ask 10 Pagans, get 11 answers. Paganism is a diverse category of religions.

1. The suffering of innocent people in the world.

In a nutshell, this question is about Dukkha. Whether a person is innocent or guilty, they will suffer. However, suffering isn't the sum total of any life. A life fully lived is filled with highs and lows.

2. The wicked who always prosper and live happy, whilst the poor and righteous (I would call it good people as in act of charity, kindness, loving and caring attributes they apply to all mankind despite of religion and race) often suffer and are victims of cruel incidents to them. What are your views on these?

Some of you mentioned sin phrased as "the Creator's rules being broken by His followers, e.g. Christianity, Jews, Islam". The Hindu believe in Karma where if evil is done this life, there is a next life where the soul repays the evil karma.

This ties back to my first answer. A life fully lived contains both highs and lows.

The world isn't divided into good people and bad people. Comic book villains don't exist in the real world - we're all just people. We all strive to do what we believe to be right and feel guilt when we believe we have done the wrong thing.

Additionally, that's not quite how karma works. I'll pull an excerpt from Crowley's Liber ABA.

"This idea of Karma has been confused by many who ought to have know better, including the Buddha, with the ideas of poetic justice and of retribution.

We have the story of one of the Buddha's Arahats, who being blind, in walking up and down unwittingly killed a number of insects. [The Buddhist regards the destruction of life as the most shocking crime.] His brother Arahats inquired as to how this was, and Buddha spun them a long yarn as to how, in a previous incarnation, he had maliciously deprived a woman of her sight. This is only a fairy tale, a bogey to frighten the children, and probably the worst way of influencing the young yet devised by human stupidity.

Karma does not work in this way at all.

In any case moral fables have to be very carefully constructed, or they may prove dangerous to those who use them.

You will remember Bunyan's Passion and Patience: naughty Passion played with all this toys and broke them, good little Patience put them carefully aside. Bunyan forgets to mention that by the time Passion had broken all his toys, he had outgrown them.

Karma does not act in this tit-for-tat-way. An eye for an eye is a sort of savage justice, and the idea of justice in our human sense is quite foreign to the constitution of the Universe.

Karma is the Law of Cause and Effect. There is no proportion in its operations. Once an accident occurs it is impossible to say what may happen; and the Universe is a stupendous accident.

We go out to tea a thousand times without mishap, and the thousand-and-first time we meet some one who changes radically the course of our lives for ever.

There is a sort of sense in which every impression that is made upon our minds is the resultant of all the forces of the past; no incident is so trifling that it has not in some way shaped one's disposition. But there is none of this crude retribution about it. One may kill a hundred thousand lice in one brief hour at the foot of the Baltoro Glacier, as Frater P. once did. It would be stupid to suppose, as the Theosophist inclines to suppose, that this action involves one in the doom of being killed by a louse a hundred thousand times."​

2.a) Based on these, do you have a sort of instinct within you or your practises that you feel guilty to do evil to others around you? What makes you avoid evil? I categorise sin as "evil" to make it easier to understand what I refer to when I think of sin. Perhaps many refer to sin as the evil that we do compared to just a set of rules set by God.

Everyone feels guilt when they believe they have done the wrong thing. However, people don't agree on what the right things to do are. This is because we're all different people that are meant to do different things.

3. Is your body just a body? Do you believe you have a soul within you. What are you within the flesh? Can the Spirit live or just die when you die?

The abridged answer is "I have a soul". I might go into more detail on this subject in another post.

4. I still don't get the idea of afterlife in pagan beliefs. How do you view a death of your family member who is Pagan. Is it the end? Or you have some sort of hope for a future meet-up with your loved ones?

There is no one answer you'll get from Pagans on this one. All the different religions have their own views, and then the individual members have differing opinions as well.

My beliefs are just speculation on what happens after death. I believe in reincarnation.

I know that the body shuts down and decomposes, and when the brain stops working, consciousness is gone.

5. What exactly do you think you were born for? Your purpose on earth as mankind?

My purpose is different from your purpose, which is different from your neighbor's purpose, etc. My purpose probably wouldn't interest you.

 

[Skilletdude]

Sorry, I have another question... where is the foundation in your particular pagan religion? So like when you first figured you believed in a higher power/powers, where did you go to find out more about it I mean? Or is it more or less whatever you feel it to be without any real outside source/guidance aside from your own personal intuition, feelings and beliefs? Like for all these different answers... is their a source for these or just what you feel inside yourself to be true?

(I hope that made sense =/ )

 

[Caitlin.ann]

Sorry, I have another question... where is the foundation in your particular pagan religion? So like when you first figured you believed in a higher power/powers, where did you go to find out more about it I mean? Or is it more or less whatever you feel it to be without any real outside source/guidance aside from your own personal intuition, feelings and beliefs? Like for all these different answers... is their a source for these or just what you feel inside yourself to be true?

(I hope that made sense =/ )

I'm still struggling to find exactly what I believe. I think what I believe will continue to grow as I do. Basically I believe what I feel to be true. Its a sticky area but I'm finding my way.

 

[Wicked Willow]

Sorry, I have another question... where is the foundation in your particular pagan religion? So like when you first figured you believed in a higher power/powers, where did you go to find out more about it I mean? Or is it more or less whatever you feel it to be without any real outside source/guidance aside from your own personal intuition, feelings and beliefs? Like for all these different answers... is their a source for these or just what you feel inside yourself to be true?

(I hope that made sense =/ )

Well, I don't think that any "holy" book out there has got all the answers, if that's what you're asking. I see all of these texts as Man's attempt at defining the undefinable - based on some genuine insights and experiences.

With that in mind, I find inspiration in the unlikeliest places: the Bible, the Tao-te-king, zen koans, Romantic poetry, the writings of the mystics, Nietzsche's inspired madness, ancient Egyptian mythology, and so on and so forth.

Preferable to that, of course, is a direct experience of the Numinous - as long as you're not trying to force it into the next conceptual cage, creating the next fallible religion in a long row of almost-truths.

 

[awitch]

So like when you first figured you believed in a higher power/powers, where did you go to find out more about it I mean?

My sources included the natural world, other pagans, my own intuition, historical/archaeological academia, folklore and mythology, other clergy, and various philosophers. Personal experience was probably the driving factor.

 

[Gardenia]

Sorry, I have another question... where is the foundation in your particular pagan religion?

First and perhaps foremost, nature. Many lessons can be learned by observing the cycles of nature, by watching life. However, spiritual and religious texts (both ancient and modern), as well as other people have also added their influence. I am particularly fond of the texts of ancient Egypt, but that's only one of many sources. I read, learn, think on the subject, pray on it, meditate on it, and put it into practice. Through this process I find what works for me, what brings me closer to Deity, gives me a better understanding of myself and the world - and, what does not.

 

[Wicked Willow]

Did I really fail to mention nature? Merciful Zeus, I think I did.

 

[praisehimalleluia]

Sometimes bad things just happen regardless of whether the person is "good" or "bad". As the old phrase goes "S**t happens". However I also think a lot of bad things can be prevented with proper planning. I'm a firm believer in taking responsibilities for oneself and ones actions and planning a head to form a sort of cushion when bad things happen (i.e. saving instead of spending, having a disaster readiness plan, etc.)




I disagree, I don't think it has anything to do with good vs. bad, but rather proper planning. There are many good, wonderful people who prosper and live happily, likewise there are a bunch of bad poor people. Its not limited to ones perception of good or bad, its about how much preparation a person does in order to be prosperous and happy. Examples: Finishing high school, going to college or trade school, finding a good job, saving up, not living outside ones means, etc. I also know of many people who can be happy without monetary wealth, so in short I disagree with your above statement.




I don't hold the Hindu belief in karma. That being said, I don't do "evil" (which is entirely subjective anyways) to others around me. My parents raised me with morals, not based on religion, but based on basic human decency. There are social and cultural norms which people must adhere to in every society, these are what I follow (more or less). Morals can be a product of religion, but they are not dependent on religion. I know atheists and pagans with better morals than many Christians for example.



My body is my own, within my flesh I am blood and bone. Sure we have energy/soul, however whatever happens after death happens, I have no preconceived notions because I admit that I do not know what comes next.



Since "Pagan" is an umbrella term for many different religions you may never get a good idea of afterlife in pagan beliefs, because every path is different.

I was born because my mom threatened to leave my father if he didn't give her children. .

Actually, I don't think I have a purpose here other than to learn and enjoy life. A friend once told me "the divine is simple". I don't think divinity, religion, spirituality has to be so complicated as people want to make it out to be. When I find myself obsessing over such questions I have to tell myself "the divine is simple, this is simple, don't make it so complicated". Its worked for me.

YOur explanation and many others were interesting to know. Perhaps I can never look and understand the mind of a pagan. That is the same, you may never understand my mind in Christianity, or any others who hold on to other faiths.

I sincerely believe the reason for religion was not to promote good verses bad but an answer to most mankind's question on why we're here and is there continuity in the whole universe.

I would be very lonely to know I am born to live, just like an organism or bacteria, that I die and never have another beautiful journey into eternity. Perhaps that is what most people who hold on to faith feel.

I looked at your view above. When it comes to evil, you mentioned you were raised with such good standards from your parents. But looking at a person who is perhaps raised in an orphanage home. Will a little child ever feel deep in her a sense of "I'm all by myself, without any God?" That scares me to think of the children then.

We raise children to know right from wrong in a sense of lifting humanity values for fellow mankind. That they grow up to be good mankind.

When you claim there is no good vs bad in why wicked ppl prosper. I wanna especially touch victims such as rape and abuse. we all know they are innocent. And about people who are so health conscious and very fit, and they develop cancer and heart diseases. Not because of them or their choices but at times, bad things happen to even the fittest on earth.

when this strikes, do you think the victim will ever feel driven to why such stuff happens to them? Or even tsunami. Cases of poor countries being driven to death. What are your emotional thoughts on such lives that are being lost.

Were they born to die tragically in the hands of nature. And for people who are perhaps young girls who are raped and murdered. Are they born to die in the hands of wicked men? Isn't it fearsome for those little ones to know they were very alone, without any future in a hereafter? They die like any microorganisms?

What are your thoughts on such tragedies?

 

[praisehimalleluia]

Karma is the Law of Cause and Effect. There is no proportion in its operations. Once an accident occurs it is impossible to say what may happen; and the Universe is a stupendous accident.
.

Are you saying the Universe is an accident and we as mankind are an accident as well? Well if I take your word now, my mind still cannot digest the the vast universe being made by an accident.

Imagine in our bodies, there is trillions of Blood Vessels, the circulation into micro-circulation of the vessels, and the tissues, organs, and the trillions of cells that make ONE Human Being. Its too precious to know we are made by an accident. If the Universe was an accident, can you imagine the vast accident that made such a beautiful accident?

I perhaps can never digest the mind of being made by accident or by protein. Looking at the wrist watch I use, that is made by a man. Everything has a creator. So how are we perfectly assembled by accident?

Sorry but I am so blunt to imagine this. Help me understand your mind, please.

 

[praisehimalleluia]

Everyone feels guilt when they believe they have done the wrong thing. However, people don't agree on what the right things to do are. This is because we're all different people that are meant to do different things..

You said right, morningstar. I would love for you to seek your own answer back once again,. Here you mentioned that everyone feels guilt.

So what exactly makes mankind "feel" that guilt. That makes our mind detect "its wrong to do something". Even a small child, if the mom says NO to something, but the child does it, have u seen the little child quietly run and hide?. Every mom knows the child was up to something silly if the child or the house have a sudden silence while usually its noisy with their children's naughty activities at home.

So what makes that little child "trigger its mind that its wrong to disobey its mom?"

If we were guiltless then we will never bother to know right from wrong.