Ask the Christian..

[ahmid]

Christians wake up in the morning with their savior in mind, asking G*d to bless this day. We walk day by day with peace in mind and hope for the future. We carry the shield of faith, a helmet of salvation, a belt of truth, a sword of G*ds word, shoes for carrying the good news, and a breastplate of righteousness before G*d. I lament and pray for the eudamonai, pantheists, atheists, muslims, hindu, buddhists, bahai, mormons, J witessnesses and even catholics. Am I arrogant knowing I am righteous in the sight of G*d due to having faith in Jesus Christ and desiring others to have this same knowledge?

-------------------------------------------------
Even as Paul thru Jesus Christ convinced idol worshiping infidels in the first century; likewise do I move about Breaking the Sword of Islam. For the true G*d so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, so that whosoever believes in Him, should not perish but have everlasting life. I will love G*d and my neighbor. By Jesus Christ, all evil is bound from hindering. --- Ahmid Truth

G*d thru Jesus Christ bless Zakaria Botros - today he is reaching up to 50 million Muslims in the middle east through televised evangelism via satellite. Reportedly hundreds a week are turning to Christ and abandoning Islam... Hallelujah. 3lotus.com
Help Stop Islam! ...over 12,000 selfish attacks since 9/11 ... Islam Killshttp://christianforums.com/showthre...d.php?p=49020070////////////////lpost49020070

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

"Non-Christian Religion Forum to discuss general spirituality & other non-Christian world religions eg. Islam, Buddhism etc."


Oh, and don't worry: I'm sorry for your kind as well. Living in a conceptual golden cage that denies you fellowship with anybody who doesn't share your particular faith is a kind of hell that I wouldn't want to face. It's like a frontal lobotomy, a crippling of the mind too horrible to bear.

 

[peaceful soul]

"Non-Christian Religion Forum to discuss general spirituality & other non-Christian world religions eg. Islam, Buddhism etc."


Oh, and don't worry: I'm sorry for your kind as well. Living in a conceptual golden cage that denies you fellowship with anybody who doesn't share your particular faith is a kind of hell that I wouldn't want to face. It's like a frontal lobotomy, a crippling of the mind too horrible to bear.

I don't that that is what ahmid is saying at all. As a Christian, I definitely don't think or see people that way. The main difference between me and the next person is that I have accepted Christ's sacrifices for my soul. Other than that, I am just as perverted as the next person. Christ starts to clean up the perverted nature of Christians as they age and mature in their walk. That does not mean that we don't still suffer faults of everyday humans.

If you understood Christ, you would realize that you are the one that needs your own head count. You underestimate what we know, understand and live in Christ. I suggest that you allow for the possibility that you are wrong in your analysis and understanding. From a Christian perspective, we could just as easily look at you in the same way that you are currently looking at us or at least the way you see ahmid.

Please understand that I am not arguing his position entirely, but the fact that you don't allow for a possibility of your position being incorrect.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

I have a slight suspicion that you don't quite seem to understand the motivation and purpose of ahmid's post - nor do you seem to understand what I was trying to communicate.

Even without a PhD in Psychology, it's plain to see that Ahmid doesn't quite like the notion of threads talking about anything other than Christianity, and felt it necessary to counter that with his little proselytizing attempt.

My problem with ahmid's position is that he doesn't leave any room for his being incorrect. He doesn't merely believe - he "KNOWS". It's that kind of utter conviction that fuels religious conflicts, past and present.
His "knowing" is the same kind of blissful conviction that you see in the faces of, say, Hare Krishnas proselytizing at the mall. There's just no room for even the faintest possibility of being wrong - just the serene "knowledge" of being 100% right where all others are completely off track.

I could be wrong about virtually everything, and you could be right - yet even then, the kind of blind faith-sold-as-knowledge that ahmid shows here would be inappropriate. The truth doesn't need blinders or censorship - nor does it need proselytizing. The truth is its own testimony, and needn't fear doubt or inquiry. Quite the contrary - it thrives under close scrutiny. The closer, the better. The same cannot be said for Christianity, I'm afraid - and I say that after a decade of examining Christianity VERY closely.

 

[Eudaimonist]

This isn't intended as an "ask the..." topic, is it? Since it is not, all I can do is offer a contrast to your "lament".

Christians wake up in the morning with their savior in mind, asking G*d to bless this day.

Eudaimonists wake up in the morning prepared to bless their own day through their own efforts.

We walk day by day with peace in mind and hope for the future.

Eudaimonists walk day by day with pro-activity in mind and plans for the future.

We carry the shield of faith, a helmet of salvation, a belt of truth, a sword of G*ds word, shoes for carrying the good news, and a breastplate of righteousness before G*d.

Eudaimonists find that cloaking oneself in dogma is not as healthy as living the examined life. Dogma is the death of personal growth. Dogma is the death of authentic spirituality.

I lament and pray for the eudamonai, pantheists, atheists, muslims, hindu, buddhists, bahai, mormons, J witessnesses and even catholics.

This very public and confrontational display of concern is taken in the spirit in which it was clearly offered.

Am I arrogant knowing I am righteous in the sight of G*d due to having faith in Jesus Christ and desiring others to have this same knowledge?

Perhaps not, but you might be arrogant in the way in which you present your values to others.

Ahmid, if you are unhappy with the responses you get to your OP, ask yourself why you should have expected differently given your approach.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Fuzzy]

Ahmid, can I have all your money?

(Luke 6:30, Luke 6:35, Matt 5:42)

 

[Luzeiro]

Christians wake up in the morning with their savior in mind, asking G*d to bless this day. We walk day by day with peace in mind and hope for the future. We carry the shield of faith, a helmet of salvation, a belt of truth, a sword of G*ds word, shoes for carrying the good news, and a breastplate of righteousness before G*d. I lament and pray for the eudamonai, pantheists, atheists, muslims, hindu, buddhists, bahai, mormons, J witessnesses and even catholics. Am I arrogant knowing I am righteous in the sight of G*d due to having faith in Jesus Christ and desiring others to have this same knowledge?

-------------------------------------------------
Even as Paul thru Jesus Christ convinced idol worshiping infidels in the first century; likewise do I move about Breaking the Sword of Islam. For the true G*d so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, so that whosoever believes in Him, should not perish but have everlasting life. I will love G*d and my neighbor. By Jesus Christ, all evil is bound from hindering. --- Ahmid Truth

G*d thru Jesus Christ bless Zakaria Botros - today he is reaching up to 50 million Muslims in the middle east through televised evangelism via satellite. Reportedly hundreds a week are turning to Christ and abandoning Islam... Hallelujah. 3lotus.com
Help Stop Islam! ...over 12,000 selfish attacks since 9/11 ... Islam Kills

Hi, Ahmid. I appreciate your testimony. "Be ye perfect, as your Father in heaven is perfect. Matt 5:48

This we achieve through Christ, in whom we can do all things. I can do everything through Christ who strengthens me. Phil 4:13

I'm glad your Christian sojourn has reached the state in which you are aware of this. Of course, others do not see it that way; which invites criticism; or they see it that way, but don't know to put it in words.

God bless you.

 

[Luzeiro]

I have a slight suspicion that you don't quite seem to understand the motivation and purpose of ahmid's post - nor do you seem to understand what I was trying to communicate.

Even without a PhD in Psychology, it's plain to see that Ahmid doesn't quite like the notion of threads talking about anything other than Christianity, and felt it necessary to counter that with his little proselytizing attempt.

My problem with ahmid's position is that he doesn't leave any room for his being incorrect. He doesn't merely believe - he "KNOWS". It's that kind of utter conviction that fuels religious conflicts, past and present.
His "knowing" is the same kind of blissful conviction that you see in the faces of, say, Hare Krishnas proselytizing at the mall. There's just no room for even the faintest possibility of being wrong - just the serene "knowledge" of being 100% right where all others are completely off track.

I could be wrong about virtually everything, and you could be right - yet even then, the kind of blind faith-sold-as-knowledge that ahmid shows here would be inappropriate. The truth doesn't need blinders or censorship - nor does it need proselytizing. The truth is its own testimony, and needn't fear doubt or inquiry. Quite the contrary - it thrives under close scrutiny. The closer, the better. The same cannot be said for Christianity, I'm afraid - and I say that after a decade of examining Christianity VERY closely.

Does the muslim 'know' what he does is right because allah tells him it is? Does the muslim 'know' what kind of light that throws on allah and what it tells the world allah is? Yes to one and no to the other.

 

[Luzeiro]

This isn't intended as an "ask the..." topic, is it? Since it is not, all I can do is offer a contrast to your "lament".

Eudaimonists wake up in the morning prepared to bless their own day through their own efforts.

Eudaimonists walk day by day with pro-activity in mind and plans for the future.

Eudaimonists find that cloaking oneself in dogma is not as healthy as living the examined life. Dogma is the death of personal growth. Dogma is the death of authentic spirituality.

This very public and confrontational display of concern is taken in the spirit in which it was clearly offered.

Perhaps not, but you might be arrogant in the way in which you present your values to others.

Ahmid, if you are unhappy with the responses you get to your OP, ask yourself why you should have expected differently given your approach.


eudaimonia,

Mark

No life in Christ is life unless and until it is examined. It is an absolute.

 

[Luzeiro]

Ahmid, can I have all your money?

(Luke 6:30, Luke 6:35, Matt 5:42)

Do you understand what Jesus is discussing in these passages? If so, I would like to hear it.

 

[arunma]

Even without a PhD in Psychology, it's plain to see that Ahmid doesn't quite like the notion of threads talking about anything other than Christianity, and felt it necessary to counter that with his little proselytizing attempt.

Why would we do otherwise? All people, without exception, who practice non-Christian religions will go to hell. Why would we encourage discussion of such horrible faiths, when only the Gospel of Christ saves? Of course we would encourage discussion of Jesus Christ and his Gospel instead of these terrible non-Christian religions.

 

[Fuzzy]

Do you understand what Jesus is discussing in these passages? If so, I would like to hear it.

The verses from Luke are from the larger Sermon on the Plain, and are part of the larger proscription to show kindness to all, not just those who love you or that you love.

The verse from Matt is the roughly the same, though some might use the switch from Plain to Mount as an example of the Bible contradicting itself.

Are we at the point where you tell me I've got it wrong because I don't love Jesus? Or that I have poor reading comprehension? I think the Redemptorists and Jesuits did a pretty good job of teaching me through elementary school, junior high, and high school. I received my baccalaureate from a state university, though, so maybe that's where it all went wrong.

Ah, well. Care for a heavily discounted virtual Halloween confection?

 

[Luzeiro]

The verses from Luke are from the larger Sermon on the Plain, and are part of the larger proscription to show kindness to all, not just those who love you or that you love.

The verse from Matt is the roughly the same, though some might use the switch from Plain to Mount as an example of the Bible contradicting itself.

Are we at the point where you tell me I've got it wrong because I don't love Jesus? Or that I have poor reading comprehension? I think the Redemptorists and Jesuits did a pretty good job of teaching me through elementary school, junior high, and high school. I received my baccalaureate from a state university, though, so maybe that's where it all went wrong.

Ah, well. Care for a heavily discounted virtual Halloween confection?

Thanks! I see it loud and clear.

 

[arunma]

The verses from Luke are from the larger Sermon on the Plain, and are part of the larger proscription to show kindness to all, not just those who love you or that you love.

The verse from Matt is the roughly the same, though some might use the switch from Plain to Mount as an example of the Bible contradicting itself.

Are we at the point where you tell me I've got it wrong because I don't love Jesus? Or that I have poor reading comprehension? I think the Redemptorists and Jesuits did a pretty good job of teaching me through elementary school, junior high, and high school. I received my baccalaureate from a state university, though, so maybe that's where it all went wrong.

Beyond a minimal ability to read English (or some other language into which the Bible has been translated), reading comprehension isn't relevant here. If you don't have eyes to see and ears to hear, you can run in circles all day and not accept the plain meaning of Scripture. As it says,

This is why I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. Indeed, in their case the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled that says: "'You will indeed hear but never understand, and you will indeed see but never perceive. For this people's heart has grown dull, and with their ears they can barely hear, and their eyes they have closed, lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears and understand with their heart and turn, and I would heal them.' (Matthew 13:13-15)
​

As far as love for Christ the Lord is concerned, he said,

If you love me, you will keep my commandments. (John 14:15)
​

and,

Why do you call me 'Lord, Lord,' and not do what I tell you? (Luke 6:46)
​

Jesus told us his commandments, which included this,

This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent. (John 6:29)
​

Therefore yes, if you do not believe in Christ then you cannot love him, and you will invariably distort the meaning of the Scriptures. For example, you will demand money from Christians as a mere rhetorical tool. Why not ask us to sever our limbs and tear out our eyes as well?

In this case, though, the meaning of Scripture ought to be so clear that even a person who hates God's word would find it difficult to alter the meaning by clever interpretations (and how much less you?). It says that believers in Jesus Christ ought to give to all who beg from us. Are you a beggar? Are you impoverished? Likely not, since you have at least one computer available to you. So why are you asking us for money? Moreover, why are you asking us for all of our money, given that Christ didn't command this. Adding to the words of Scripture is a serious sin punishable by death.

 

[Fuzzy]

If you don't have eyes to see and ears to hear, you can run in circles all day and not accept the plain meaning of Scripture.

Like I said, we're at the point where I've got it wrong because I don't love Jesus. Despite the plain text on the page, that may or may not be literal.
There are branches of the Christian tree (at least to us po' observers outside the garden) that dance with serpents or cause harm to themselves or others to control their sinful ways.

For example, you will demand money from Christians as a mere rhetorical tool. Why not ask us to sever our limbs and tear out our eyes as well?

If we look at Christ's teachings as literal and not allegorical, it would still be up for you to do that. Your eye and hand cause you problems.

It says that believers in Jesus Christ ought to give to all who beg from us. Are you a beggar? Are you impoverished? Likely not, since you have at least one computer available to you. So why are you asking us for money?

Irrelevant. The teaching was to show kindness and give to those who ask of you. And computers are available to the public via libraries.

Moreover, why are you asking us for all of our money, given that Christ didn't command this. Adding to the words of Scripture is a serious sin punishable by death.

Fleshly death will happen to everyone eventually. And an eternal hereafter of my soul being tormented in Hell, well, not really a new threat there, either.


Got a good tuna salad recipe that doesn't involve mayonnaise or salad dressing?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy The verses from Luke are from the larger Sermon on the Plain, and are part of the larger proscription to show kindness to all, not just those who love you or that you love.

Greetings. We are doing a verse by verse study on Luke here. I like putting up verses with the greek text for each.....hope ya drop by.....

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7289245&page=45
The GT Commentary on Luke [verse by verse]

Remember the Alamo!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELBlwP1fRQU&feature=related

 

[ahmid]

Beyond a minimal ability to read English (or some other language into which the Bible has been translated), reading comprehension isn't relevant here. If you don't have eyes to see and ears to hear, you can run in circles all day and not accept the plain meaning of Scripture. As it says,

This is why I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. Indeed, in their case the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled that says: "'You will indeed hear but never understand, and you will indeed see but never perceive. For this people's heart has grown dull, and with their ears they can barely hear, and their eyes they have closed, lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears and understand with their heart and turn, and I would heal them.' (Matthew 13:13-15)
​

As far as love for Christ the Lord is concerned, he said,

If you love me, you will keep my commandments. (John 14:15)
​

and,

Why do you call me 'Lord, Lord,' and not do what I tell you? (Luke 6:46)
​

Jesus told us his commandments, which included this,

This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent. (John 6:29)
​

Therefore yes, if you do not believe in Christ then you cannot love him, and you will invariably distort the meaning of the Scriptures. For example, you will demand money from Christians as a mere rhetorical tool. Why not ask us to sever our limbs and tear out our eyes as well?

In this case, though, the meaning of Scripture ought to be so clear that even a person who hates God's word would find it difficult to alter the meaning by clever interpretations (and how much less you?). It says that believers in Jesus Christ ought to give to all who beg from us. Are you a beggar? Are you impoverished? Likely not, since you have at least one computer available to you. So why are you asking us for money? Moreover, why are you asking us for all of our money, given that Christ didn't command this. Adding to the words of Scripture is a serious sin punishable by death.

Amen brother. Even today I gave generously to needy brethren as it says in Acts 4:34-35,
34 There were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned lands or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales 35 and put it at the apostles' feet, and it was distributed to anyone as he had need. Yup, sure did, feels good (a percentage of proceeds, out of the goodness of my heart thru faith). Notice the giving is first to brethren so that no brethren are needy.

-------------------------------------------------
Even as Paul thru Jesus Christ convinced idol worshiping infidels in the first century; likewise do I move about Breaking the Sword of Islam. For the true G*d so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, so that whosoever believes in Him, should not perish but have everlasting life. I will love G*d and my neighbor. By Jesus Christ, all evil is bound from hindering. --- Ahmid Truth

G*d thru Jesus Christ bless Zakaria Botros - today he is reaching up to 50 million Muslims in the middle east through televised evangelism via satellite. Reportedly hundreds a week are turning to Christ and abandoning Islam... Hallelujah. 3lotus.com

Help Stop Islam! ...over 12,000 selfish attacks since 9/11 ... Islam Kills

 

[Servant of Jesus]

Why would we do otherwise? All people, without exception, who practice non-Christian religions will go to hell. Why would we encourage discussion of such horrible faiths, when only the Gospel of Christ saves? Of course we would encourage discussion of Jesus Christ and his Gospel instead of these terrible non-Christian religions.

Could I gently suggest that this is not the way to convince others to consider Christianity. It may also be contrary to God's word

In John 12, Jesus says:

47"As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it. 48There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day. 49For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it. 50I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say."

and also James 4 provide more sage advice:

11Brothers, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against his brother or judges him speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it. 12There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you—who are you to judge your neighbor?

So this is really tricky ground- we shouldn't judge, so how should we, who are convinced that Jesus provides the only way to salvation, deal with those who do not profess to be Christians?

I think one way is to urge them to examine three things:

1. the basic tenets of their faith.

2. the origin of their faith, and the actions and life style of its founder.

3. what promise their faith holds for the future; what hope does it provide for dealing with sin and life after death.

Christianity is, above all else, a religion of love, as so well demonstrated in the sinless life of Jesus Christ, and in the hope that Jesus provides for the future.

Christianity has remained unchanged for thousands of years, is consistent with all the archeological discoveries made in the Middle East, and provides a clear road map to Heaven. Others may have their own answer, but as for me, I know what I've got, don't know what I'd get if I changed, and therefore will stay with the Lord forever.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

Why would we do otherwise? All people, without exception, who practice non-Christian religions will go to hell. Why would we encourage discussion of such horrible faiths, when only the Gospel of Christ saves? Of course we would encourage discussion of Jesus Christ and his Gospel instead of these terrible non-Christian religions.

Scientologist: "Why would we do otherwise? All people, without exception, who practice anything other than Auditing will be enslaved by their body thetans. Why would we encourage discussion fo such horrible faiths, when only Dianetics frees mankind from that scourge? Of course we would encourage discussion of L. Ron Hubbard and his legacy instead of these terrible SP-religions."

No, I don't expect you to see my point when I hold up that mirror.
Yes, I nevertheless understand your motivation and conviction. That still doesn't mean that I agree with it, though.
Yours is the same kind of fanatism that took the giant buddhas of Afghanistan down, permanently depriving mankind of one of its heritages. I pity you and those who think like you.

 

[ahmid]

Scientologist: "Why would we do otherwise? All people, without exception, who practice anything other than Auditing will be enslaved by their body thetans. Why would we encourage discussion fo such horrible faiths, when only Dianetics frees mankind from that scourge? Of course we would encourage discussion of L. Ron Hubbard and his legacy instead of these terrible SP-religions."

No, I don't expect you to see my point when I hold up that mirror.
Yes, I nevertheless understand your motivation and conviction. That still doesn't mean that I agree with it, though.
Yours is the same kind of fanatism that took the giant buddhas of Afghanistan down, permanently depriving mankind of one of its heritages. I pity you and those who think like you.

I can't agree with dianetics; it excludes everyone that came before it; it excludes everyone with an IQ less than 105; it even excludes Tom Cruse in his debacle on the Oprah show...ha ha. I would "pity" (to use your words) those who do not believe in one god. Even Darwin would agree with me.

Darwin's own instructions in his theory of evolution thesis were to discard this theory if archeology did not uncover intermediary fossils. Here we are, almost 500 years later, no intermediary fossils. Per Darwin's own instructions, his theory goes out the window!

-------------------------------------------------
Even as Paul thru Jesus Christ convinced idol worshiping infidels in the first century; likewise do I move about Breaking the Sword of Islam. For the true G*d so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, so that whosoever believes in Him, should not perish but have everlasting life. I will love G*d and my neighbor. By Jesus Christ, all evil is bound from hindering. --- Ahmid Truth

G*d thru Jesus Christ bless Zakaria Botros - today he is reaching up to 50 million Muslims in the middle east through televised evangelism via satellite. Reportedly hundreds a week are turning to Christ and abandoning Islam... Hallelujah. 3lotus.com
Help Stop Islam! ...over 12,000 selfish attacks since 9/11 ... Islam Killshttp://christianforums.com/showthre...d.php?p=49020070////////////////lpost49020070