Ask the Atheist

[Tynan]

Who says that when a person dies, or is damaged in the body, that the soul suffers from it's affects?

You are assuming the existence of the religious conceit of the 'soul'.

But also I don't see the soul as a bunch of fireing neutrons in the brain. So we do disagree on that part.

What do you see the 'soul' as ?

 

[Isaiah 53]

A point that is central to this conversation and seems to be something you are perhaps predicating your argument on is: that which is popular is valid.

I do not agree with the 'majority are right' view, or the 'everyone is doing it so it must be good/right' view.

That which is popular is popular, nothing else.

Tynan,

Neither do I agree with the 'majority are right' view, it is not my argument the that which is popular is valid. For if this were the case, then in the 1st Century I would have a very difficult time validating my own beliefs as the fledgling Christian Church was very much in the minority.

The point I am trying to make is that the preponderance of evidence would suggest that there is a supreme being, as this, for some reason, is a very natural instinct for human beings. I would argue that even atheists feel this natural instinct and put this 'faith' into what ever it is that satisfies this need, be it science, family, or one's self.

For I do not believe that a true atheist actually exists, one may convince themselves and others that they do not believe in a god, but they do place something in the god role. That is my argument.

Did the Christian god (the one I persume you follow) ingrain on the people of central African the natural desire to sarfice children to the ocean to stop the tides ?

Why did he not just make himself visible, why the child sacrifice ?

Or did he just ingrain his wishes a little poorly ?

But how could he ? He is omnipotent, he is omniscient, he is omnipresent, he must have engrained perfectly, he must have engrained clearly and with exacting purpose, he must have wanted the children wrapped in cane leaves an drowned.

Good questions. As a Catholic I believe that God has made himself visible through his creation and that whatever truth exists in the plethora of religions, it is the truth of this one God. How human beings interpret this divine being varies on time, culture or location.

God, for whatever reason, chose to reveal Himself fully and completely in Jesus Christ, He chose the Jewish people to bring this revelation to is completion.

So, did God advocate human sacrifice for the Mayans? No, but God was there, revealed imperfectly, and interpreted incorrectly, but He was there. This of course is my belief and has no bearing on the OP or our conversation.

PAX

 

[Trish1947]

You are assuming the existence of the religious conceit of the 'soul'.



What do you see the 'soul' as ?

I believe as the Bible stated on how Adam became a living soul. He was a lump of silent lifeless formed dirt, until God breathed into his nostrils the breath of life. Life comes from the attributes of God. Can it be proved in some way, that this component of man exists? For me, just the fact that there is life, is enough for me. And does an attribute of God such as life, cease to exist due to the death of the flesh? Does a part of God die at death? Believing to the saving of the soul, which would be an attribute of God that never dies, would be what salvation is all about for the Christian.

 

[0rion]

But is the soul affected? Or can be? Sure the physical effect is immediate, but no one can say with all assurance that the unseen part has been affected. Who says that when a person dies, or is damaged in the body, that the soul suffers from it's affects?
But also I don't see the soul as a bunch of fireing neutrons in the brain. So we do disagree on that part.

The soul is unnecessary, the brain already does what the soul is claimed to do. The soul was sliced by Occam's Razor a long time ago.

 

[0rion]

I believe as the Bible stated on how Adam became a living soul. He was a lump of silent lifeless formed dirt, until God breathed into his nostrils the breath of life. Life comes from the attributes of God. Can it be proved in some way, that this component of man exists? For me, just the fact that there is life, is enough for me. And does an attribute of God such as life, cease to exist due to the death of the flesh? Does a part of God die at death? Believing to the saving of the soul, which would be an attribute of God that never dies, would be what salvation is all about for the Christian.

That's all metaphorical... Adam was not a lifeless dirt, he was born like the rest of us, but his parents were monkeys... don't you know the book of Genesis is a metaphor for evolution?

 

[Isaiah 53]

That's all metaphorical... Adam was not a lifeless dirt, he was born like the rest of us, but his parents were monkeys... don't you know the book of Genesis is a metaphor for evolution?

And yet monkeys are no longer giving birth to humans....weird....

 

[0rion]

And yet monkeys are no longer giving birth to humans....weird....

that's what i get for poking them with the stick... they grab it off my hand and start poking themselves.

sorry, i shouldn't have started...

 

[Trish1947]

That's all metaphorical... Adam was not a lifeless dirt, he was born like the rest of us, but his parents were monkeys... don't you know the book of Genesis is a metaphor for evolution?

Not the lasttime I looked it wasn't. People want to turn the Bible into some sort of quatrain that can't be understood, until someone comes along and says.."let me explain it to you"..God explained it pretty well, in my opinion. I like the first hand explination myself.

 

[JoyforJESUS]

mattseanbachman,

I am not trying to change your mind, or your heart. Unfortuantly there is not much that as a Christian, can say to change your mind or heart.

But I have one question for you if I may ask (might be a 2 part question....

Do you mind if I as a Christian, and other Christians pray for your salvation, and a return to God?

joyforjesus

 

[mick24458]

When you die, you lose consciousness and your body breaks down and decays.

There is nothing more to the human make-up other than the material.

If you are right, that's very depressing.

 

[Tynan]

I believe as the Bible stated on how Adam became a living soul. He was a lump of silent lifeless formed dirt, until God breathed into his nostrils the breath of life.

Why did this 'dirt' have nostrils ?

Where did the 'breath of god' go, into the dirt's lungs ?

Why does god have breath, does god live in an environment where he must exchange gas with his lungs ?

Does god have lungs.

Life comes from the attributes of God. Can it be proved in some way, that this component of man exists?

No, it does not exist, so it is going to be tough proving that it does.

 

[Trish1947]

Why did this 'dirt' have nostrils ?

Where did the 'breath of god' go, into the dirt's lungs ?

Why does god have breath, does god live in an environment where he must exchange gas with his lungs ?

Does god have lungs.



No, it does not exist, so it is going to be tough proving that it does.

Actually there's quite a few scriptures that refer to the breath of God. It's not the same as our needing to exchange for oxygen. But the Bible says that God is a Spirit. So according to scripture when referring to the breath of God would be His Spirit. Which is life.


Job 27:3 All the while my breath [is] in me, and the spirit of God [is] in my nostrils;

Job 33:4 The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.

Isa 42:5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:

 

[mick24458]

And neither does what you believe or not believe have any bearing whatsoever on what truth is. Truth, if it is ultimate truth, has no dependence whatsoever on what you or I think the truth is.
What is ultimately depressing is if there is no ultimate truth, which obviously you don't think there is, and that's depressing and very sad.

 

[0rion]

And neither does what you believe or not believe have any bearing whatsoever on what truth is. Truth, if it is ultimate truth, has no dependence whatsoever on what you or I think the truth is.
What is ultimately depressing is if there is no ultimate truth, which obviously you don't think there is, and that's depressing and very sad.

So, you are labeling "ultimate truth" to what you believe?

You are saying, "if there is no ultimate truth"... as opposed... "if what I believe is not true"...

 

[0rion]

Not the lasttime I looked it wasn't. People want to turn the Bible into some sort of quatrain that can't be understood, until someone comes along and says.."let me explain it to you"..God explained it pretty well, in my opinion. I like the first hand explination myself.

If you are to believe that... then God made a lot of mistakes in his explanation.

How can God explain the creation of mankind wrong if he was the one that created it?

FYI, humans weren't created by dirt, breathed life into them and them woman created through the man's rib.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Actually there's quite a few scriptures that refer to the breath of God. It's not the same as our needing to exchange for oxygen. But the Bible says that God is a Spirit. So according to scripture when referring to the breath of God would be His Spirit. Which is life.


Job 27:3 All the while my breath [is] in me, and the spirit of God [is] in my nostrils;

Job 33:4 The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.

Isa 42:5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:

These are 2 of the most awsome passages in the Bible to me. I can picture myself in this "army" today.

Ezekiel 37:.........10 So I prophesied as He commanded me, and breath came into them,and they lived, and stood upon their feet, an exceedingly great Army/Hosts.

Reve 11:11 Now after the three-and-a-half days the breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and great fear fell on those who saw Them.

 

[451ffan]

If you are right, that's very depressing.

Only from someone looking from the outside in on a secular world-view. It really isn't, and if you really want to know, I see the Christian ideology of this life being meaningless, just a struggle to the "heaven" that is supposedly there, as truly depressing.

-MSB

 

[451ffan]

Tynan,

Please reduce the number of posts you are making in this thread. I really enjoy your contributions, but it is very, VERY hard for me to field questions when there are six differing conversations happening concurrently.

Thanks a lot for your contributions!
-MSB

 

[451ffan]

And neither does what you believe or not believe have any bearing whatsoever on what truth is. Truth, if it is ultimate truth, has no dependence whatsoever on what you or I think the truth is.
What is ultimately depressing is if there is no ultimate truth, which obviously you don't think there is, and that's depressing and very sad.

"Actually there's quite a few scriptures that refer to the breath of God. It's not the same as our needing to exchange for oxygen. But the Bible says that God is a Spirit. So according to scripture when referring to the breath of God would be His Spirit. Which is life.


Job 27:3 All the while my breath [is] in me, and the spirit of God [is] in my nostrils;

Job 33:4 The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.

Isa 42:5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein: "

Trish, the problem with this response is that, to a non-believer, it is exceedingly silly to quote Biblical verses to convince someone theological in nature. The "breath" of God, being proven as real because the Bible says so, isn't convincing to anyone but those who already ascribe to the faith.

-MSB

 

[451ffan]

And neither does what you believe or not believe have any bearing whatsoever on what truth is. Truth, if it is ultimate truth, has no dependence whatsoever on what you or I think the truth is.
What is ultimately depressing is if there is no ultimate truth, which obviously you don't think there is, and that's depressing and very sad.

No offense meant, but there is no distinction between truth and "ultimate truth." Atheists believe it is true that there is no god, you believe it is true that there is. Just because the atheist does not believe in the same "ultimate truth" that you do does not negate their worldview as "depressing." Besides, that's your opinion, and not a arguable fact, anyhow.

-MSB