Ask me about Islaam

[HumbleSiPilot77]

The fact that there are so many different denominations and interpretations of Christianity is your problem not ours.

This is not a problem, the truth is never obscured or distorted, historically Christian body always believed the same. These false allegations that Christianity has denominations don't hold any water when the accuser himself has numerous sects, including those who reject the very "holy" words of the prophet.

To us the definition of a christian is anyone who claims to be a christian.

Unfortunately, Quran, the measuring stick of Islam NEVER makes mention of this definition. Christianity has always been defined, and had always certain orthodox beliefs, claims outside of this doesn't relate to Islam's cause.

Your internal disputes are exactly that (yours), not ours. And the fact of the matter is that Roman Catholics (which happen to be the largest church of christianity) WORSHIPS Mary

.Without the understanding of those disputes one can not make the claim that there is divine worship to creation. If that is so, it is quite valid to state that Muhammad was a pedophile, but an investigation into the matter reveals there might be cultural reasons tied to this claim.

They may not claim they worship Mary, but praying to her, prostrating to images of her, that is worship in the Islaamic definition.

False logic continues, our internal disputes are ours but our definitions come from Islam. This is hypocritical at best.

And we all know that Roman Catholics and other christians call on Mary, asking her to help them in time of need.

Intercessions are called from the saints are to ask them to pray for us to their Creator Jesus Christ also. If one can ask his friend to pray for him, they can also ask the saints to pray for them to God as Christianity doesn't teach death is the end of a soul, and they ceased to exist.

There are idols of Mary throughout the world, shrines dedicated to her, thousands of pilgrims go their annually to get blessed by her at these shrines. These shrines are nothing but temples dedicated to her worship.

So is Kabaa where muslims stone the "devil" and touch and kiss the meteorite.

You tell me: how is it that a woman who has been dead for some 2 millenia, who is buried in the ground, cannot hear or see what is going on in the earth, possibly answer the prayers of all those millions of Catholics? Its nothing but sheer idolatry, however you try to spin it, it amounts to the same thing...POLYTHEISM.

Ignorance doesn't know any boundaries. Mary doesn't answer prayers, she prays for us to God.

Why not pray and call upon the One True God, the one who created everything, the One who alone can Hear and and answer prayers? Why not pray to the One God who said "you shall have no other god besides me, and you shall not make any graven images"?

One can not assume that we do not pray to God nor worship Him. God prohibits SUBSTITUTION in worship to Him, not accessory.

You say you are an eastern orthodox christian. Your church claims that the icons of Mary contain blessing, and you should touch them and bow to them.

Same as people all over from muslim world to see a piece of Muhammad's beard in Iconium Turkey. Icons of Mary does not possess the blessing, the blessings come through God's miracle, objects are tools for worship to God, not subjects of worship.

I want to know, what is the difference between a Hindu "venerating" the image of Ram and you "venerating" the image of Mary?

The same difference when one bows to the pagan shire in Mecca. Allah is in there? No.

But we all know that God is not a physical body that you can draw a picture of Him. You seek to make God into one of His own creations! God is above all that, He is holy. He is not some four-armed elephant with blue skin, neither is He a man in white robes with long hair and a beard. Stop ANTHROPOMORPHIZING God, and follow what your own bible says!

This is way out of line. First NO ONE tells or dictates me what I worship with his false assumptions. Second, this last paragraph has nothing to do with the veneration of Mother of God.

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

Thank you, Bushmaster, I kind of ignored that point. Obviously, as an Orthodox, St Paul plays a far bigger role in your faith than he does mine.

Don't think that brother, Apostle Paul does indeed have a big role in all and all of our Christian faith. He died for our faith. We honor him as much as we do honor all the other Apostles. Remember, those Apostles who walked with Christ, also approved and accepted him. Who are we to reject him, you know what I mean?

However, I do find it ironic and slightly amusing how Muslims question the legitimacy of Paul's teachings in contrast to Muhammeds teachings, seeing as both men claimed to speak from God, and both men had approximately no witnesses to the revelations they recieved.

St. Paul at least had some companions around him who were also confused with what happened to him. He later went on to meet a Christian who already expected him. In contrast Muhammad didn't know what the heck happened to him in that cave, something that claimed to be an angel came and abused him by squeezing him, giving him anything but peace, filled him with terror, he ran to his home and others around him thought what happened to him might have been divine. He had no clue. St. Paul directly calls out "LORD" when he is blinded.

 

[SanFrank]

This just shows your complete ignorance of Arabic, and Arabic grammar. Muhammad which is spelt محمد consists of four letters - meem - haa - meem - daal. So where does the "un" or the "in" come from. This is part of Arabic grammar, and it appears as a vowel which looks like this ٌ and its always on the last letter of the word. So in the case of Muhammad, it would be مُحَمَّدٌ (Muhammadun) or مُحَمًّدٍ (Muhammadin) or even مُحَمًّدً (Muhammadan). Notice the base letters are the same, but the vowel symbol which is on the last letter will make the ending either a "un", "in" or "an".

To take another example, the word Salaam and Salaamun is the exact same word. Salaamun is used when another word follows it, i.e. Salaamun alaykum (peace be upon you). When another word follows the name Muhammad, such as Rasoolullaah, thus is becomes Muhammadun Rasoolullah (Muhammad is the messenger of Allaah).

And as regards to the meaning of Muhammad, which means praised one, as the dictionary you yourself quoted, it means also a man with many praiseworthy qualities, which definitely Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم. However, Muhammad is not a name of Allaah, the name of Allaah is Al-Hameed (having the same root letters) which means "The Most-Praiseworthy".

I do not understand your point on accents and vowel points... you know it was not present in the classical arabic.... however, the authors did not mean the prophet but a "man praised much". You failed to respond to the other points made on Jesus being the man praised... as it follows the previous ayah, the Truth being Jesus Christ, who according to 48.28, was sent as a sacrifice.

 

[JM]

Firstly let's test your claim that YHWH doesn't allow lying, or more interestingly, whether or not YHWH doesn't himself lie:

For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness. (2 Thessalonians 2:11-12, NIV)

Sure, you reject Paul as a false prophet then quote a letter your reject?

Read the chapter for context.
v.1 written to believers
v.2 not to be troubled
v.3 do not be deceived about the coming of Christ
v.4 antichrist will come first
v.5-6 remember what has been taught
v.7 the wickedness of the antichrist is already at work
v.8 when Christ returns the antichrist will be destroyed
v.9 the antichrist will be destroyed because his works are of Satan
v.10 his followers are already deceived and reject the truth
v.11 God hardens their hearts (Strongs G1756; efficiency (“energy”): - operation, strong, (effectual) working.) YLT reads, "and because of this shall God send to them a working of delusion, for their believing the lie," they were already decieved, God used "signs and wonders" to harden the hearts of the reprobate
v.12 the word "damned" means, "to distinguish, that is, decide (mentally or judicially); by implication to try, condemn, punish: - avenge, conclude, condemn, damn, decree, determine, esteem, judge, go to (sue at the) law, ordain, call in question, sentence to, think."

God was judging them for rejecting the truth. In context your supposition doesn't hold.

O LORD, you deceived me, and I was deceived (Jeremiah 20:7, NIV)

YLT reads, "Thou hast persuaded me, O Jehovah, and I am persuaded; Thou hast hardened me, and dost prevail, I have been for a laughter all the day, Every one is mocking at me,"

Then I said, "Ah, Sovereign LORD, how completely you have deceived this people and Jerusalem by saying, 'You will have peace,' when the sword is at our throats." (Jeremiah 4:10, NIV)

Nice try...the prophet is complaining to God that he allowed false prophets to deceive the people. What you're claiming is not in sight.

"So now the LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouths of these prophets of yours. The LORD has decreed disaster for you." (2 Chronicles 18:22, NIV) see also 1 Kings 22:23

And many other examples of how God deceives the wicked.

The evil spirit was already a "lying spirit." God is not the source of the lie, Satan is (1 John 3:8)...

God is Lord of all including the actions of men:


Psalms 76:10 Surely the wrath of man shall praise thee: the remainder of wrath shalt thou restrain.

Psalms 78:49 He cast upon them the fierceness of his anger, wrath, and indignation, and trouble, by sending evil angels among them.

Let me guess, you deny the book of Psalms as well? lol

Kaab ibn Ashraaf whom you mentioned, was also a wicked person, and was thus also deceived. War is deception, no one can win a war without trying to deceive the enemy, and like I said before, lying is allowed in certain extreme circumstances where it becomes necessary for the greater good.

The famous Imam Abu Hammid Ghazali disagrees with you.

"Speaking is a means to achieve objectives. If a praiseworthy aim is attainable through both telling the truth and lying, it is unlawful to accomplish through lying because there is no need for it. When it is possible to achieve such an aim by lying but not by telling the truth, it is permissible to lie if attaining the goal is permissible." (Ahmad ibn Naqib al-Misri, The Reliance of the Traveller, translated by Nuh Ha Mim Keller, amana publications, 1997, section r8.2, page 745)
Understanding Dishonesty and Deceit in Islam
Is Lying a Sin, or Just a Good Strategy?

Lying about religion, however, is never allowed in Islaam. The Prophet said not to join in worship others with Allaah, even if you are being burned to death.

No comment needed.

jm

 

[SanFrank]

Yes, sent has been completed, means he has already appeared. Does not mean he has been sent and has gone.

Right, appeared... and the Father sent Him.

Another lie, deen means religion, way, or judgment. Allaah is called as Maaliki Yawmi'addeen (King of the Day of Judgment), not "king of the day of debt"!

دين definition: he became indebted; under the obligation of a debt; a debt incurred by a thing taken unjustly or by violence
EW Lane, Arabic-English Lexicon, 1863, Book I, pg 944

So where is Jesus called as "The truth"? The verse is saying He is a messenger of Allaah, and the same exact verse is condemning the trinity! My how you love to twist and re-interpret things so deceptively!

Sura 4.171
"You the Book's family,... and certainly they say against "allah" EXCEPT the TRUTH, ONLY the Messiah Jesus....

 

[SolomonVII]

T......
The Quraan never said Mary is part of the trinity, rather it said that the Christians worship Mary and Jesus, which they do (especially Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Christians).

If the Koran says so, then the Koran is in error, for indeed, neither Roman Catholic nor Eastern Orthodox worship Mary.
Jesus yes, but not Mary.

 

[JM]

(edited post)

 

[SolomonVII]

Which is a blatant lie purported by those who never knew Christianity in the first place. Not to forget early Islam's Arabia was a good location for exiled heretics who deviated from Christian teachings, but muslims did NOT know the difference. Not once Christian veneration or adoration is considered worship of Theotokos as Christianity always taught worship is due to God and God only. Islam's misconceptions in this matter are unfounded. It is an interesting point to note, Quran never said Mary is part of the "three" (No mention on Trinity there) but Allah of Quran questioned Jesus of Quran if he was the one creating these false beliefs. How convenient that Quran doesn't acknowledge that historical there were heretical groups under Christianity, but Quran wrapped them up under one umbrella. So as Eastern Orthodox Christian who left Islam 7-8 years ago, I would demand to see a concrete historical source that my current faith "worships" creation, not the Creator.

The pagan and gnostic trends that influenced the development of Islam in the one direction were diverse enough to support the continuing worship of Isis in the guise of Mary in a completely different direction.

As traditional Christianity such as the Catholic and the EO are becoming less pervasive in secular society, many neo-pagan groups are re-emerging worshiping the deity of the feminine again. Again though, these groups are non-catholic, non-orthodox, and in fact are in many ways specifically anti-orthodox catholic.

If as Yashu suggests the Koran has lead many to conclude that the orthodox Christian mainstream worships Mary, then the Koran is clearly in error on this point.
It is unfortunate that believers in God have been cut off from each other due to errors (or deceptions) such as these.

Now that Muslims here understand the truth about EO and Catholic belief, one might hope that they refrain from such misreadings of the Christian faith, lest their misunderstanding turn into outright deceptions and slanders.

 

[Mahammad]

If the Koran says so, then the Koran is in error, for indeed, neither Roman Catholic nor Eastern Orthodox worship Mary.
Jesus yes, but not Mary.

what about this:

""holy mother of God pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death, Amen.""

this is exactly how the Pagans of Makkah used to pray, they used to talk to Mannat, Alat, even Abraham and say "O mannat pray for us to Allah" "O Ibrahim pray for us" etc

in Islamic definition it is worshiping.

 

[lionroar0]

what about this:

""holy mother of God pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death, Amen.""

this is exactly how the Pagans of Makkah used to pray, they used to talk to Mannat, Alat, even Abraham and say "O mannat pray for us to Allah" "O Ibrahim pray for us" etc

in Islamic definition it is worshiping.

We do not share the same definition.

Christians are not Muslims. Christianity is not Islam.

holy mother of God pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death,

God forbid we should ask another Christian to pray of us.

It's asking Mary to pray for us. That is not worship. That's the Christian definition.

 

[Nooj]

what about this:

""holy mother of God pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death, Amen.""

this is exactly how the Pagans of Makkah used to pray, they used to talk to Mannat, Alat, even Abraham and say "O mannat pray for us to Allah" "O Ibrahim pray for us" etc

in Islamic definition it is worshiping.

lionroar0 has a good point. If I was a Christian and I asked a Christian to pray for me, I'm not worshipping that Christian. I'm asking for God's help.

however, "Judaism" and "Christianity" have deviated from the teachings of their prophets, by committing shirk (polytheism).

How has Judaism committed shirk?

 

[Mahammad]

but that Christian is alive and he is in front of you, Mary is dead.

how are you 100% sure that she can hear you? or is she all-hearing like God?

 

[Nooj]

but that Christian is alive and he is in front of you, Mary is dead.

Mary's in Heaven.

how are you 100% sure that she can hear you? or is she all-hearing like God?

I'll leave that for Catholics to answer, I don't know.

 

[Chesterton]

How has Judaism committed shirk?

I was wondering that too.

 

[JM]

The end of discussion between Muslims and Christians is near when we see the word “shirk” posted. All honest dialogue is thrown out when definitions of beliefs are ignored. Christians are Trinitarian monotheists, Muslims believe in Unitarian monotheism…




​

 

[Mahammad]

The end of discussion between Muslims and Christians is near when we see the word “shirk” posted. All honest dialogue is thrown out when definitions of beliefs are ignored. Christians are Trinitarian monotheists, Muslims believe in Unitarian monotheism…




​

So Christian trinity contradict simple math.

 

[lionroar0]

but that Christian is alive and he is in front of you, Mary is dead.

how are you 100% sure that she can hear you? or is she all-hearing like God?

Our God is a God of the living. She can hear us, because Jesus conquered death.

 

[Chesterton]

So Christian trinity contradict simple math.

Why do you think God has to fit inside our human ideas? Do you think God also has to wear a watch to keep track of time?

 

[Mahammad]

Why do you think God has to fit inside our human ideas? Do you think God also has to wear a watch to keep track of time?

I don't think simple math is a human idea.


(Read in the name of your Lord Who created.Created man out of leech.Read and your Lord is Most Honorable, He Who taught (the use of) the pen,Taught man that which he knew not. )

 

[Mahammad]

Our God is a God of the living. She can hear us, because Jesus conquered death.

did you know one of your Saints is actually a heretic in your definition because he never believed in Trinity or Jesus is god but he is one of many saints of the catholic Church.

does that make anyone talking to him and requesting a prayer a polytheist?