Ask an atheist!

[SnapCount]

But everyone doesn't share my mindset, though. So why should I even worry about that?

But if everyone was athiest, what would be the grounds for someone judging the actions of another?

 

[karisma]

But if everyone was athiest, what would be the grounds for someone judging the actions of another?

Whether that action caused harm.

 

[Maxwell511]

Whether that action caused harm.

Well there's also the mens rea so to speak. If the intent was to cause harm but fortunately none was caused, it would still be wrong. Conversely if unintended harm was caused and assuming no recklessness then it isn't really an immoral action.

 

[Maxwell511]

But if everyone was athiest, what would be the grounds for someone judging the actions of another?

I thought a christian was not to judge the actions of another just to recognise that we are apparently all sinners and in need of saving. A sort of preach the word but do not judge thing. I could be getting the theology wrong though, it has been a while since I was a christian.

 

[SnapCount]

Actually we are not supposed to judge other people, but there's still a distinct difference between right and wrong actions.

You can set any moral rules you want, but what makes your rule the "right" one? Any person can live by his/her own rules/values/morals. It would feel right but there would be no reasonable foundation for that.

 

[Maxwell511]

You can set any moral rules you want, but what makes your rule the "right" one?

Possibly the best way for you to understand an atheist view on this is a simple mental exercise:

Try to think of reasons that it is wrong to kill without any reference to God.

I cannot imagine a person that would not be able to do this. After this try it with adultery, stealing etc.

We may be prone to selfishness as part of our nature but we are also prone (more so in my opinion of people) to empathy and sympathy.

Btw your question is slightly loaded, most moral judgements are situational. Moral rules are not set in stone, an action that may be "right" in one circumstance may not be wrong in another. It is not wrong to lie to save someone's life for example, in fact it would be wrong not to do so.

 

[karisma]

Well there's also the mens rea so to speak. If the intent was to cause harm but fortunately none was caused, it would still be wrong. Conversely if unintended harm was caused and assuming no recklessness then it isn't really an immoral action.

Right, but that's whats so great about not having absolutes. "Whether it caused harm" is over simplifying, but gives a starting point. All actions have to be weighed.

 

[frenzy]

I'm willing. Would it be okay if I answered them in this thread, or should I start my own (new) thread?

Can I just pm you rather than trying to talk amidst the arguing?

 

[SnapCount]

Possibly the best way for you to understand an atheist view on this is a simple mental exercise:

Try to think of reasons that it is wrong to kill without any reference to God.

I cannot imagine a person that would not be able to do this. After this try it with adultery, stealing etc.

We may be prone to selfishness as part of our nature but we are also prone (more so in my opinion of people) to empathy and sympathy.

Btw your question is slightly loaded, most moral judgements are situational. Moral rules are not set in stone, an action that may be "right" in one circumstance may not be wrong in another. It is not wrong to lie to save someone's life for example, in fact it would be wrong not to do so.

I see what you mean, but keep in mind that while atheists like you could be trusted to make moral choices, other people won't have the same thought process depending on their views and values

 

[frenzy]

Whether that action caused harm.

Well there's also the mens rea so to speak. If the intent was to cause harm but fortunately none was caused, it would still be wrong. Conversely if unintended harm was caused and assuming no recklessness then it isn't really an immoral action.

If there is no religion to say whats right and wrong, how can an atheist say that causing someone harm is wrong?

 

[BranwenUerchLlyr]

If there is no religion to say whats right and wrong, how can an atheist say that causing someone harm is wrong?

Is God the only thing that keeps you from killing babies on sight and running old people down in your car?

That is a terrifying thing. People that think this are a danger to all the world.

 

[frenzy]

Is God the only thing that keeps you from killing babies on sight and running old people down in your car?

That is a terrifying thing. People that think this are a danger to all the world.

Yay thanks for answering!

Personally, God isn't the only thing keeping me from doing that. However, there are people who feel no sympathy towards life. They have no sense of right and wrong. Also, some people say inflicting pain is always bad, but then there are people who enjoy S&M. Some people get a high from killing. So how do you know that you are right and they are wrong? From a logical standpoint, how can you have a set of morals if there is no spirituality in the world? How can you have good and bad?

 

[Maxwell511]

If there is no religion to say whats right and wrong, how can an atheist say that causing someone harm is wrong?

I no more need religion to tell me that it is wrong to cause harm than I need one to tell me that the grass is green.

I can see what suffering is, I can feel it myself and I can sympathize with people that are suffering.

Do you think that atheists don't consider others to be people like themselves? Or do you only act "good" because a religion told you to and not because you think that others have feelings and a diginity that is just as deserving as yours?

 

[karisma]

Yay thanks for answering!

Personally, God isn't the only thing keeping me from doing that. However, there are people who feel no sympathy towards life. They have no sense of right and wrong. Also, some people say inflicting pain is always bad, but then there are people who enjoy S&M. Some people get a high from killing. So how do you know that you are right and they are wrong? From a logical standpoint, how can you have a set of morals if there is no spirituality in the world? How can you have good and bad?

Whether it causes harm isn't the end-all be-all. Again, there are no moral absolutes. That's what we have intelligence for.

 

[frenzy]

Whether it causes harm isn't the end-all be-all. Again, there are no moral absolutes. That's what we have intelligence for.

What about the people who don't have intelligence? What about the people who do have intelligence, but disagree on morals?

I no more need religion to tell me that it is wrong to cause harm than I need one to tell me that the grass is green.

I can see what suffering is, I can feel it myself and I can sympathize with people that are suffering.

Do you think that atheists don't consider others to be people like themselves? Or do you only act "good" because a religion told you to and not because you think that others have feelings and a diginity that is just as deserving as yours?

Not everyone can see it though. That's why I ask, why are you right and they are wrong?

I act good because I am called to it. Not by religion, not by God, but it is rooted into my very soul. Thats personal. I'm not saying thats why everyone acts good. That's just me.

 

[Maxwell511]

What about the people who don't have intelligence? What about the people who do have intelligence, but disagree on morals?



Not everyone can see it though. That's why I ask, why are you right and they are wrong?

I act good because I am called to it. Not by religion, not by God, but it is rooted into my very soul. Thats personal. I'm not saying thats why everyone acts good. That's just me.

What you call soul, I call nature. It is the same for you as it is for me. I just explain it through biological necessity than through deities. It is within my nature to believe that harming others is wrong.

 

[frenzy]

What you call soul, I call nature. It is the same for you as it is for me. I just explain it through biological necessity than through deities. It is within my nature to believe that harming others is wrong.

So then why is it in our biological programming to believe harming others is wrong? Is it to help our species survive?

 

[Maxwell511]

Is it to help our species survive?

Yes.

 

[frenzy]

Yes.

Aha, now we are getting to the core! Thanks for answering, I really enjoy learning and debating. I'm sort of on a spiritual quest, as it were.

 

[karisma]

What about the people who don't have intelligence? What about the people who do have intelligence, but disagree on morals?

Those who lack intelligence can look to the law to guide behavior.

And people may disagree on morals. But it's not like Christians agree on everything, either.