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Ask a Thelemite! :)

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sidhe

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I kinda figured that we had "Ask a" everything else. :) And I often end up answering questions about Thelema if I mention my religious affiliation, so I thought I'd knock some of them out...

To start things off, I'll answer the common question - What is a Thelemite?

A Thelemite is a follower of Thelema.

Thelema is the Greek word for "will."

Thelema is two tiered - it's both an esoteric philosophy, and a religion.

The philosophical part is based on Thelemic law, which goes as follows:

"Do what thou wilt be the whole of the law."
"Love is the law, love under will."
"There is no law but do what thou wilt."

We've got Thelemic law thanks to Aleister Crowley, who was one of the Thelemic prophets...though not necessarily the best example of Thelema.

"Will," in Thelemic terms, does not mean "Whatever you feel like doing," but "What your highest aspirations are." The catch is that you aren't to interfere with anyone else's will, because to do so would be in violation of your will.

Thelemites are also really big on love and unity. All things are to be done in love. Sin, in fact, is only defined as the restriction of love. The prophetic book, Liber AL vel Legis, instructs Thelemites "Also, take your fill and will of love as ye will, when, where and with whom ye will!"

Liber AL is the central book of Thelema. Study of it is discouraged. We more read it every once in a while, and go "Hey, I never noticed that before!" and continue on our way.

It's actually impossible to be anything but a Fundamentalist Thelemite, as the fundamental belief is that everyone is individual and able to make their own decisions as to how to apply Thelema to their lives.

Religious Thelema revolves around the worship of deity (however the Thelemite may see said deity), under various names. The best known are Nuit, Hadit, and Ra-Hoor-Khuit, which are taken from the Egyptian pantheon, and are taken to represent infinite possibility, infinite realization, and the moment of contact between them, respectively. Another popular Thelemic deity name pair are Babalon and Therion, which represent a Tantric Shiva/Shakti principle, and tend to be highly accessible...especially Babalon, for various reasons.

The chief agency for Thelemic religious worship is the Ecclesia Gnostica Catholica, aka the Gnostic Catholic Church, via the Gnostic Mass. This is closely aligned with the Caliphate O.T.O., which is the "official" magickal lodge founded by A.C.
 

Abbadon

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How Gnostic and Catholic (as in "Universal", I'm going to guess that y'all aren't related to the Catholic Church) are the Ecclesia Gnostica Catholica? Or rather, in what ways are they?

Also, Crowley did a bit of work with Elrom Hubbard for a bit, but grew to dislike him. I personally applaud Crowley for disliking Hubbard. What you you tihnk of Hubbard?

And, who are other prophets in Thelema?
 
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Sundragon2012

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I have respect for Thelema and its support for freedom of concience within the structure of seeking one's True Will. I am not a ceremonialist in regards to magick but I think that such practices can serve those who seek a certain logical structure and complex symbolism for their spirituality as opposed to more slippery intuitive knowing that comes from less formalized/structured/intellectual paths.


)o( Blessed Be,

Chris
 
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morningstar2651

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Do you perform the Mass of the Phoenix?

I have noticed some variation in the sacramental sign used in the rite. Do you have a preference? The western astrology symbol for the sun seems like the most practical to me while keeping with the symbolism.

I have never practiced the Mass of the Phoenix, but you got me hooked on Crowley's writings. I have a copy of the Book of Wisdom or Folly and The Book of Lies and have been incorporating bits of them into my own beliefs.
 
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sidhe

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I'll be answering these as best I can. :) Fortunately, only one will be overly tricky...

Shy21 said:
How did you become a Thelemite?

Well, as it's not an initiatory religion (though it does have initiatory groups within it, such as the O.T.O. and the EGC), you basically just make the commitment to the practices, and it's up to you to keep up with them. There's a strong streak of self-reliance in Thelema.

Abbadon said:
How Gnostic and Catholic (as in "Universal", I'm going to guess that y'all aren't related to the Catholic Church) are the Ecclesia Gnostica Catholica? Or rather, in what ways are they?

Hey. :)

The "Catholic" part, I'm pretty sure, is just hopeful thinking on Crowley's part, who firmly believed that Thelema was the universal religion of the future.

The "Gnostic" part is that, much like some Gnostic groups, Thelema focuses on finding the "divine light" within yourself. There's a great emphasis on learning, as you never know what might give you a revelation.

Abbadon said:
Also, Crowley did a bit of work with Elrom Hubbard for a bit, but grew to dislike him. I personally applaud Crowley for disliking Hubbard. What you you tihnk of Hubbard?

My personal opinion on Hubbard isn't publishable in polite company. If I had no other problems with him, that he's responsible (indirectly) for the film Battlefield Earth is enough for me to take a dislike towards Mr. Hubbard. But, from what little I've read of Scientology...again, my opinion isn't publishable in polite company. :)

Abbadon said:
And, who are other prophets in Thelema?

The other prophets/Magi of Thelema are Lao Tze, Siddartha Gautama, Dionysos, Krishna, Moses, Tahuti (Thoth), and Mohammed. Crowley's take on Mohammed is a little strange, and is sometimes open to argument, but the rest fit well. They aren't seen as fortelling Thelema, but setting up the principles that would be the basis of Thelema.

TheGMan said:
Where does Rabelais fit in?

This is the one I can't really answer, as I've never gotten around to reading Rabelais, and thus can't discuss his role within Thelema.

Morningstar2651 said:
Do you perform the Mass of the Phoenix?

Embarassing admition time!

No. Mainly because I never have the time, and never have Oil of Abramelin for making Cakes of Light. As soon as I can get the oil, though, I'm adding that to my practice. My regular practice currently consists of the LBRP, LHR, Middle Pillar, and some devotionals to the Babalon image.

I'm also lax about making it to Liber XV masses...I've been to one in two years. The EGC and O.T.O. people WIT and I met there were really nice, though.

Morningstar2651 said:
I have noticed some variation in the sacramental sign used in the rite. Do you have a preference? The western astrology symbol for the sun seems like the most practical to me while keeping with the symbolism.

Whoa! I've only ever seen the sun version! I'd be interested in seeing an alternate, even though I agree that the sun symbolism is the most practical.

Morningstar2651 said:
I have never practiced the Mass of the Phoenix, but you got me hooked on Crowley's writings. I have a copy of the Book of Wisdom or Folly and The Book of Lies and have been incorporating bits of them into my own beliefs.

The Book of Wisdom or Folly is my personal favorite. It's a handy reference guide. Have you ever read The Hunchback and the Soldier? It's a great essay on the nature of philosophy.
 
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morningstar2651

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sidhe said:
The Book of Wisdom or Folly is my personal favorite. It's a handy reference guide. Have you ever read The Hunchback and the Soldier? It's a great essay on the nature of philosophy.
I haven't read it yet. I planned to, but never got around to it.
 
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sidhe

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morningstar2651 said:
I haven't read it yet. I planned to, but never got around to it.

I really recommend that, and any Class A A.'.A.'. documents you can come across. They make for interesting reads.
 
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sidhe

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Osel said:
If Belarion is 8=3, what is the sum of the numbers of the Beast 666, his son 777, and Hadit af-na-khonsu? [FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]
[/FONT]

Ask someone with a much better knowledge of Qabala than I do. I've got a basic, working knowledge, and I understand the Qabalistic significance of the exercises I use, but Qabalistic proofs aren't my area of expertise.

I'm not sure if your question is really answerable, anyway. Belarion being the motto of Jack Parsons (who I'm not sure had made Magister Templi), 666 and 777 being the numbers of the Beast and his Son, and Hadit and Ankh-af-Na-Khonsu being two separate entities (Hadit being Nuit's consort, and Ankh-af-na-khonsu being her pirest), and there being no reference to Hadit af-na-khonsu, the overall effect I had when I read the question was, "Huh?" But, again, I'm not good with Qabalistic proofs.

If you really want the answer, PM me and I'll refer you to some people who can help out. But I'm pretty sure - especially on Hadit af-na-Khonsu - there are some errors in the equation.
 
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Moros

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sidhe said:
But I'm pretty sure - especially on Hadit af-na-Khonsu - there are some errors in the equation.

I was just being silly. :p I have a limited knowledge of Thelema, though I've got a rather sizable Crowley library I haven't read through yet.

Parsons interests me, though.
 
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sidhe

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Osel said:
I was just being silly. :p I have a limited knowledge of Thelema, though I've got a rather sizable Crowley library I haven't read through yet.

Parsons interests me, though.

Ah, silliness. I approve of that. :thumbsup:
 
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sidhe

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Horab said:
no offense meant, but i never cared for Crowley, his lifestyle and ideas were kinda whacked to me.

None taken. Some things Crowley said were kinda out there. Especially on women. But, simultaneously, those things were very not in keeping with Thelemic law.

No need to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Though Thelema isn't for everyone, admittedly.
 
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firestar

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Hi Sidhe,

I have a couple of questions:

*What led you to pursue the path of thelema, and what is it about it that you find personally fulfilling and relevant for your life?

*Do thelemites believe that it is the only truth?

*How can everyone exercise their own will or highest aspiration without infringing on the rights of others- I guess to put it simply: is true thelema a principle that can actually work in reality rather than just being a cool philosophical idea? (this one confuses me)

*How is deity understood in thelema if at all?

*How is the afterlife explained in thelema- is there a heaven/hell concept? reincarnation? nothingness?

I may have more questions but this is all for now :)
 
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sidhe

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Hi Firestar,

I like it when this thread gets necromancied. :)

firestar said:
I have a couple of questions:

*What led you to pursue the path of thelema, and what is it about it that you find personally fulfilling and relevant for your life?

Well, my path to Thelema was wierd. I started off being interested in Celtic paganism, but I stumbled across a book on Ceremonial Magick. If you read anything about CM, Aleister Crowley's name comes up. I read some Crowley, in particular the Book of the Law. I was sold. I didn't quite understand it, but that was part of the challenge.

As far as being fulfilling, it has given me a bond with the divine that I haven't found in any other religion...but I'm not dependent on divinity.

And relevance is simple. Thelema makes you think. There's no dogma outside of the Law, so you have to make up your own mind on a lot of things.

*Do thelemites believe that it is the only truth?

Thelemites don't even agree on what truth is. :) Most agree that Thelemic Law is for everyone, but some focus on the Ceremonial Magick that Crowley practiced, other on religious practices, and others on philosophical ideas. Some Thelemites are actually another religion, but live their lives by the Law.

*How can everyone exercise their own will or highest aspiration without infringing on the rights of others- I guess to put it simply: is true thelema a principle that can actually work in reality rather than just being a cool philosophical idea? (this one confuses me)

That's the test of whether something is your Will or not. Conflict will happen, that's inevitable. But if you actually are preventing someone from moving forward in their Will, then you're in the wrong, and aren't following your Will. On the other hand, if your interference will prevent them from infringing on someone else's Will, you're doing something noble.

Absence of infringing on others rights is not the same as absence of conflict. The only right you have is to do your Will. Some things are everyone's Will...like the Will to live. But some things are specific to individuals. I'd walk over a field of corpses to write, for instance. My wife would do the same to play piano.

*How is deity understood in thelema if at all?

As 10 Thelemites, get 40 answers. Some hold deity to be archetypal, some are atheistic, some are very theistic. Deity is important as something you have a relationship with, but not more important than the Law. The Law applies to deity, too. They just actually follow it perfectly. Atheistic Thelemites are a varied bunch...some hold the idea of "deity" up as a psychological construct, others a philosophical archetype.

*How is the afterlife explained in thelema- is there a heaven/hell concept? reincarnation? nothingness?

Reincarnation, but possibly to higher/lower levels of existence. There is a Hell, but it's reserved for those who actively oppose the Law.

Although "reincarnation" might be a bad term. You may get a new body, but there's no real break in consciousness.

I may have more questions but this is all for now :)

Ask away. :)
 
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