Ask a Pagan

[Gardenia]

I'm sorry for not being able to keep with the thread very well. My mother's rat just had babies, and I'm trying to give her all the information about rats I know (my second favorite animals, and I use to breed) while being across the country. It's been a busy night!

Gardenia and Ravenscape:
How do you actually practise your beliefs?
a) ceremonies?
b) ethical rules?
c.) fellowship?
I'm particularly interested in your Kemetic faith, Gardenia, very fascinating

I am actually of the Kemetic Orthodox tradition, a specific tradition in the wider Kemetic reconstruction group. (Who, depending on who you ask are not pagan but African traditional religion.. I still think of myself as a pagan though, so if you aren't totally confused now.. )
In my tradition, we are spread out all over the world, so rarely are we able to get together for ceremonies. We make due with internet for fellowship, and we meet up locally when we can. In some ways it is sad not to have a bigger group locally, but it is wonderful to meet so many people from so many places too.

As for ceramonies, we have some for holidays, but I'd say our daily shrine ritual is most important. (Err.. as close to daily as possible, sickness, other reasons, may stop one from actually being able to do the formal ritual daily.) It involves ritual purification, opening prayers, personal offerings (food, drink, items, works we have done..) and personal prayer/meditation. Then, we do closing prayers.
Offerings are a pretty important part of the faith, at least to me. They are symbolic (as God probably doesn't really need that cookie..) it is a.. what you give, you get back sort of thing.. Does that make sense?
I'm more one for imformal pray and offerings, to be honest.

Ah, ethical rules. We live by the laws of ma'at (truth, balance..). Examples of which are seen in things like the negative confession (or the 42 purifications). They include things like "I do not murder" "I do not commit adultry" "I do not lie" "I do not dislike myself". We have a pretty strong guideline of what is and isn't okay ethically, but some of it is open to personal interpertaion.

 

[Druweid]

I hope other Pagans will feel welcome to chime in. One person can't possibly convey the diversity of "Pagan".

Oh, I think I might have a thought or two. ::sipping at mug o' coffee::

What is Paganism?

I'm so glad you asked! BigChris, I've had this article in mind for you for quite some time, and was just waiting for a good time to suggest it. I think you'll find it informative on many levels: Paganism

I'll get the stupid questions out of the way, since Raven knows I'm not serious about them.

Sure, I'll bite!
Do you worship Harry Potter? 'Course not, that's silly. It's obvious Hagrid is the true deity.

How do you feel about going to hell? Nope, not on my itinerary. In my beliefs, Hell is more a concept than an actual place, and by and large, I don't believe it exists.

Why do you worship Satan, when everyone knows the Bible is true? A brief answer would never cover this properly. Same as previous answer, I don't believe a real 'Satan' exists.

Why did the chicken cross the road? He wanted to go see if a man really could lay bricks.

What drove you to be a pagan?

Nothing "drove" me to be a Pagan, it is simply the designation which best describes and categorizes the beliefs that I hold.

Also, I have heard there are many many pagan gods, if so which ones do you believe in/worship and why?

That's not an easy question for me to answer. Here, my beliefs can be described as both Agnostic and/or Archetypalist. Personally, I believe it is improper to the point of disrespect to assign any physicality (including gender) to the Great and Wonderful Divine. However, I also acknowledge the use of archtypes to identify and commune with particular aspects of the Divine. I might say a prayer to The Dagda for wisdom, or to Brigid for healing. It's not exactly the same, but is similar to, the Christian practice of saying prayers to any of the various saints.

Also, and very important, like many (most?) Pagans, I do not worship the Divine inasmuch as I commune with the Divine. I pray for guidance, ask for blessings, etc., but actual 'worship' is reflected in my actions and how I choose to live, not through my thoughts and words to the Great Mystery.

What tradition are you?

I don't prescribe to a particular tradition, though I'd say my strongest influences are the Celtic traditions. I am also influenced by Native American spirituality, and Buddhism.

What are your experiences of living as a Pagan? Do you tell others about your religious beliefs? How? What is it like being a Pagan in the West in this day and age?

I generally stick to a 'don't ask, don't tell' policy. I have had a wide variety of reactions to those I've told. The problem is, the negative reactions don't go away; once someone has been aliented against me, they stay that way. For those few who have known me well, and understood (well, to some degree) my philosphies -before- knowing I'm Pagan, it was easier for them to accept it.

... you can't just say, hey, he's a pagan and know what they believe, know what I mean.

Actually, that sums it up quite well. If a person was pointed out to me, and i was told "He/She is a Pagan," and outside of the most basic precepts, I wouldn't necessarily know what they believe either.

...to be continued...

 

[little_wing]

I'm sorry for not being able to keep with the thread very well. My mother's rat just had babies, and I'm trying to give her all the information about rats I know (my second favorite animals, and I use to breed) while being across the country. It's been a busy night!



I am actually of the Kemetic Orthodox tradition, a specific tradition in the wider Kemetic reconstruction group. (Who, depending on who you ask are not pagan but African traditional religion.. I still think of myself as a pagan though, so if you aren't totally confused now.. )
In my tradition, we are spread out all over the world, so rarely are we able to get together for ceremonies. We make due with internet for fellowship, and we meet up locally when we can. In some ways it is sad not to have a bigger group locally, but it is wonderful to meet so many people from so many places too.

As for ceramonies, we have some for holidays, but I'd say our daily shrine ritual is most important. (Err.. as close to daily as possible, sickness, other reasons, may stop one from actually being able to do the formal ritual daily.) It involves ritual purification, opening prayers, personal offerings (food, drink, items, works we have done..) and personal prayer/meditation. Then, we do closing prayers.
Offerings are a pretty important part of the faith, at least to me. They are symbolic (as God probably doesn't really need that cookie..) it is a.. what you give, you get back sort of thing.. Does that make sense?
I'm more one for imformal pray and offerings, to be honest.

Ah, ethical rules. We live by the laws of ma'at (truth, balance..). Examples of which are seen in things like the negative confession (or the 42 purifications). They include things like "I do not murder" "I do not commit adultry" "I do not lie" "I do not dislike myself". We have a pretty strong guideline of what is and isn't okay ethically, but some of it is open to personal interpertaion.

Thanks for sharing your beliefs It's been veryinformative and interesting for me.

Peace

 

[Gardenia]

Also, and very important, like many (most?) Pagans, I do not worship the Divine inasmuch as I commune with the Divine. I pray for guidance, ask for blessings, etc., but actual 'worship' is reflected in my actions and how I choose to live, not through my thoughts and words to the Great Mystery.

This is why it is good a few of us are answering, since pagan answers vary so much.
Personally, I do worship the Divine, worship is a very important part of my life. (The sort of worship that involves things like bowing, kneeling, that sort of thing which many pagans do not do from my understanding.) There is a very good point here though, worth repeating, worship often takes many forms for pagans. Prayer, ritual, ceremonies, words, thoughts, actions, just living life can all be valid forms of 'worship' for a pagan.

 

[Druweid]

So how many gods do you worship?

Only one, but I can do it 360 different ways.

So you believe that all religion is right?

It's not that all religions are right, it's that a particular religion is right for you, at this time, given what you know and what you have to work with.

See, this is where Abrahamic religions and some Pagan religions have their greatest difficulties. Abrahamic religions are a final destination. Neopagan religions are a journey. It is understood that you are on a "path," a road of discovery and learning. It is understood and accepted that one may move from one set of beliefs to another as part of the process of spiritual maturity.

Tell me which religions do you not except as true, or do you except that all religion leads us on our spiritual journey?

I would never judge the religion of another. For me personally, I would not accept a religion as true for myself if I felt it made me less of a person in any way.

...do you feel like you have a purpose, like there is a reason for you being here,

I believe we all have a potential purpose, but it's still up to us to discover, realize, and embody that purpose.

like no matter what, god would not let you die?

One of my strongest and most basic beliefs is that the Great Divine is NOT the Grand Master Puppeteer of our lives. I don't necessarily believe that the Most Holy would ever prevent my death, or cause my death. Even if I am here to serve a purpose, someone else may take up where I left off.

Sometimes I do, I question why I didn't die doing the things I did before becoming a christian, and why people I know that didn't have these problem had to die. I feel like I have something to do, like I am going to be used by god in a big way, it is exciting, but scray at the same time.

Another concept I have a real problem with is the concept of predestination. Essentially, it negates the possibility of free will. Very little bothers me more than to hear someone say "Everything happens for a reason." I simply can not, and do not believe that is the case. However, I certainly do believe that some things may happen for a reason. I may not believe we are automatons being lead by a divine puppeteer, but I know from experience that our lives can be strongly affected by unseen influences.

In your case, Chris, yes, I think it's very possible your life was preserved for a reason. It may have been for your benefit, or the benefit of another, one can never say for sure. Which ever is the case, your enthusiasm and willingness to find and embrace that purpose is most admirable.

Respectfully,
-- Druweid

 

[Druweid]

Greetings Nice Dream!

I'll get to some of your other questions in my next post, but Gardenia has been so wonderful as to help provide an excellent example to one particular question:

If you are saying one thing is true and another person insists the opposite, does it not logically follow that one of you is wrong?

And from the recent previous posts:

I do not worship the Divine inasmuch as I commune with the Divine.

Personally, I do worship the Divine, worship is a very important part of my life. (The sort of worship that involves things like bowing, kneeling, that sort of thing which many pagans do not do from my understanding.)

What you see here is a direct contradiction in practice, but only at face value. In truth, we share beliefs regarding the basics of our faiths, but the semantics of our practice comes from our hearts, and as such, are as individual as we are. Different, even when it appears to be in opposition, isn't necessarily synonymous with 'wrong.'

And thank you Gardenia!

Vive' la differance!
-- Druweid

 

[Druweid]

Greetings!

Do you believe that all religions have a fraction of truth in them?

I don't like sweeping generalizations, but I could certainly say that most all religions have some truth in them. More to the point, though, and more significant to me as a Pagan, is that each religion has the potential for teaching you something. Every single thing you learn can be another step in your ascent to greatness.

What about atheism, does that also have truth in it?

Sure, Atheism teaches certain lessons that can be valuable. To doubt, to seek, to learn, and to not be complacent with "accepted" understanding, to name but a few.

How do you dicern between what is true and false when the basis of your belief appears to be that all faiths lead to God when many religions dispute this?

I only have to concern myself with what is true or false for me. What is true or false for you is your concern. Where there are differences, we can certainly discuss, debate, and consider. Among the most significant of understandings is that we don't have to have all the answers today.

Also, if you believe in an afterlife is it like a heaven/hell thing? Who goes where?

Like many other things, there's a variety of answers among different Pagans. My beliefs are pretty close to the concept of Summerland, which is shared by many Pagans and Wiccans, so I'll touch on that one.

Summerland is one name and/or concept of a place where spirits of the departed go to rest, to consider their life lessons, possibly to meet up with loved ones who have passed, all before either descending to a higher sipirtual plane, or before being reincarnated to the earth to continue to grow and develop spiritually.

As far as "who goes where?" I believe that each individual spirit finds its' own destination, much like water finding its own level. I believe that most all find their way to Summerland, but spirits that continually refuse to advance past their own selfishness and self-destructiveness eventually weigh themselves down to the point of creating their own personal Hell, from which there is no return.

What i was basically saying was some religions have big contradictions to the point where one is right and the other is wrong.

Oh? What if we're all wrong? Would you change what you believe or how you worship if, by some bizarre turn of events, we were all proved wrong? I know that no matter what "proof" or "evidence" is ever presented, my most basic core beliefs will not change. It's not about being right or wrong, it's about following my heart. I'm simply being true to myself.

In my opinion I do believe that some religions other than Christianity have fragments of truth in them,

Yes, once a thing has been accepted as truth, it is truth no matter who speaks it.

...but only Christianity has the fullness of truth.

And in a sense, I believe you. Yet, I also feel the same way about my faith.

Do you believe that God reveals truth to people or that it's all guesswork until we do get to the right vantage point to see everything?

Well, let's say that truth is like an Easter egg. You've been on an easter egg hunt, right? How do you know where to look? Well, you know how the game works, and certain places are better than others for hiding eggs. So you don't know exactly, but you have an idea where to look. How do you know when you've found the Easter egg? Small and round? Nope, that's a rock, keep looking. Round and colorful? Nope, that's a rubber ball, keep looking. Mommy peeks around the corner and gestures toward the sandbox. You look in the sand, nothing. You look under a seat and, hmmm, right size, right shape, right color, right weight. You've got an Easter egg!

Seeking the truth is very similar. You have an idea where and where not to look. Someone you know and trust might point you in a good direction. When you think you've found it, you examine it to see if it resembles that which you seek. When it passes your tests, you have accomplished your goal. And I don't think the Divine "reveals" the truth, per se', I believe it's there, and always has been there, waiting patiently to be found. 'Course, God could be the one peeking around a corner saying, "Pssst, look over there."

I don't understand how you can believe atheism has truth in it but at the same time believe in God, it's just one of those cases where there is no middle road.

There is something to be learned from everything, even if it be that it is wrong.

Respectfully
-- Druweid

 

[Nice Dream]

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions. I was getting a bit confused with the contradictions, and still am on some level, but i do feel i understand Paganism a bit better. What you're saying basically is that you believe everyone has an individual spiritual journey which may contrast with others but they arrive at the same location despite taking different routes, except in cases where they fail to mature spirtually? I'm still not sure on the atheism having truth in it thing. It seems what you're saying is that it doesn't so much have truth in it but more lessons can be learned from it. Am i taking all this in right?

 

[Druweid]

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions.

You're very welcome!

I was getting a bit confused with the contradictions, and still am on some level, but i do feel i understand Paganism a bit better. What you're saying basically is that you believe everyone has an individual spiritual journey which may contrast with others but they arrive at the same location despite taking different routes, except in cases where they fail to mature spirtually?

Yeah, in a nutshell, that's pretty much it.

I'm still not sure on the atheism having truth in it thing. It seems what you're saying is that it doesn't so much have truth in it but more lessons can be learned from it. Am i taking all this in right?

Yes, exactly. Keep in mind though, there is no real Pagan perspective on Atheism, only personal opinions for the most part.

Regards,
-- Druweid

 

[Gardenia]

What you're saying basically is that you believe everyone has an individual spiritual journey which may contrast with others but they arrive at the same location despite taking different routes, except in cases where they fail to mature spirtually?

That sounds about right.
It always seemed right to me that there would be more than one valid spiritual path, even if said paths often seem to contradict eachother. Since people are all very different, it only made sense to me that we see and honor the Divine in many different ways.

 

[morningstar2651]

How many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsi... Nevermind.

Approx. 300 licks.

"All the Gods are One God and all the Goddesses are One Goddess." Hermetics would finish this with "And there is one Initiator".

I prefer "All the Faiths are One Faith, All Things are Interconnected, And Truth is Whole."

"...There are many paths leading to the top of Mount Fuji, but there is only one summit - love." -- Morihei Ueshiba, The Art of Peace

What drove you to be a pagan?

Because of the same feeling I get when I'm with my fiance -- love. I feel like I'm home.

Many Christians in the West feel that they can sometimes be the butt of others' jokes unnecessarily, that they are sometimes victimised, stereotyped or vilified for their beliefs.

I can only imagine that this would be far worse for Pagans, whose religion is much less well-known, often mocked, and sometimes, I think, feared.

What are your experiences of living as a Pagan? Do you tell others about your religious beliefs? How? What is it like being a Pagan in the West in this day and age?

I have several anecdotes and stories to share. But first, a little bit of background. I grew up in this town. I'm estimating it to be 95% or more Christian, the bulk being Reformed (RCA). Even as a Christian, I felt out of place there. I got dirty looks for mowing my lawn on Sundays.

Back in high school, I wore a huge gaudy plastic pentacle as part of a halloween costume that I wore when working backstage on the school play. One of the sophomore girls (a PK) asked me if I was a Satanist. I was Christian at the time, but took the time to explain to her that the pentacle is a Pagan symbol. "Same thing" she says. A good friend of mine (another PK) chimes in pointing out that I probably know more on the subject than the other girl. The other girl kept her mouth shut about it the rest of the night.

During a job interview, my employer asked "How often do you go to church?". He had assumed that I was Christian. I answered honestly. He didn't ask how often I worshipped while there.

This one time, at the college I was going to, I was reviewing the reading assignment for logic when the woman next to me spontaneously asks me "Are you a Jew?". She had seen my pentacle (5 pointed star) and confused it with the star of David (6 pointed star). I explained to her that I am Pagan. She asked me if I had read the Bible, and yes, I have. She then continued to tell me that I am going to hell because I hate Jesus (which I never said) and I'm weird because her sister is Pagan and she's weird. I kept my distance from this woman for the rest of the semester.

Several members of my coven, including my fiance, went to the small private college in my hometown. My fiance's first roommate started acting real weird after my fiance's books on Paganism came out of hiding and went onto her bookshelf. Her roommate was apparently so frightened that she moved into the room of a woman who had passed away. She moved out of the room a few weeks before the end of the semester!

After she moved out, the High Priestess of our group moved in with my fiance in the dorms. Several times, their door was vandalized and spat on. It was vandalized with both words I cannot repeat on this forum and "Jesus loves you" at the same time, likely by the same people. "Jesus loves you", by itself, is not offensive in the least, but calling the people you're telling this the c-word and suggesting that they do something lewd with a dog is offensive.

We also got a Pagan group started at the college. You can see the minutes of the student senate meeting here. I'll put one of the questions into context. When Rachter brings up the question about homosexuals, it is aimed directly at the High Priestess, who was also the Vice President of common ground, the campus gay-straight alliance. Rachter also fell to his knees in prayer against the group during the secret vote.

Our group was also interviewed by someone from the school paper. The writer then fabricated content for the article and, rather than fabricating direct quotes, he said "a witch said...". The article was nothing more than a mockery of us.

Thankfully, the local newspapers have higher standards than the school paper apparently has.

One of my friends at the university I'm going to now came out of the broomcloset to his roommates last semester. They mocked him about it to the point he decided to get out of his lease and get another appartment.

If somebody asks me about my religious beliefs, I answer honestly. Otherwise, my mouth is shut on the subject. Also, there are times when those questions are inappropriate.

Not only do we have to deal with stereotypes and misinformation (I assume that this book is a good critical look at misinformation. I've read several of Kerr's articles on the subject online.) , "fluff bunnies" create a bad stereotype for Pagans everywhere. Pagans that come out of the broom closet should hold theirself to a very high standard. They are the face of Paganism to those who meet them. If they are irresponsible and mean, their actions become associated with all Pagans.

 

[Cultus_Diabolus]

The same happens to Satanists like me. I'm not as outgoing with my religion, but whenever somebody sees me drawing a sigil of Baphomet or the Crux Satana they get all ****y and say I'm going to Hell because I love the devil. But then again I live in conservative Indiana...

 

[ravenscape]

There's a stigma associated with being an open member of any minority religion in a society where there is a majority religion. I can only suggest that consideration be given to how open you want to be, given the community in which you live.

 

[BigChrisfilm]

I think it might have something to do with your religion being associated with Satan, who is considered by almost everyone in the world as nothing but pure evil.

 

[little_wing]

I think it might have something to do with your religion being associated with Satan, who is considered by almost everyone in the world as nothing but pure evil.

Well, the Abrahamic faiths believe in a chap called "Satan" who is evil. This is by no means "almost everyone" (close to half, if we assume every nominal Christian/muslim/jew believes this, which is generous...), nor is the Satan of most Satanists the same individual, if what I understand of Satanism is correct.

Peace

 

[ravenscape]

Well, the Abrahamic faiths believe in a chap called "Satan" who is evil. This is by no means "almost everyone" (close to half, if we assume every nominal Christian/muslim/jew believes this, which is generous...), nor is the Satan of most Satanists the same individual, if what I understand of Satanism is correct.

Peace

You're correct. Church of Satan is actually a non-theistic religion.

 

[BigChrisfilm]

Well, the Abrahamic faiths believe in a chap called "Satan" who is evil. This is by no means "almost everyone" (close to half, if we assume every nominal Christian/muslim/jew believes this, which is generous...), nor is the Satan of most Satanists the same individual, if what I understand of Satanism is correct.

Peace

Just so you know, all Christians, Jews, and Muslims believe in Satan, or they are not really of that religion.

 

[numberprophet]

where are you from BigChris?

 

[little_wing]

Just so you know, all Christians, Jews, and Muslims believe in Satan, or they are not really of that religion.

That is your own personal opinion, and I wish to respectfully disagree. There are so many different views on what constitutes a "true Christian" that the only reasonable way to calculate numbers is by taking people's self-confessed nominal religion at face value. If some people's idea of a "true Christian" was taken as fact, Christians would be thin on the ground indeed

There are many Christians, myself included, who don't believe in an actual Satan, but a metaphorical one. Yours is not the only interpretation of Christianity, let me assure you

Peace

 

[morningstar2651]

That is your own personal opinion, and I wish to respectfully disagree. There are so many different views on what constitutes a "true Christian" that the only reasonable way to calculate numbers is by taking people's self-confessed nominal religion at face value. If some people's idea of a "true Christian" was taken as fact, Christians would be thin on the ground indeed

There are many Christians, myself included, who don't believe in an actual Satan, but a metaphorical one. Yours is not the only interpretation of Christianity, let me assure you

Peace

The Jewish Satan is extremely different from the Christian Satan.