Ask a Pagan

[pensive]

So wicca is JAR.

JAR?

As though simply being isn't incredible enough, we need to be a part of something else, something fantastic and undeniable because no one can disprove it.

But that's just it. "Simply being" is fantastic and incredible in itself. Part of Paganism is about acknowledging and embracing that truth.

Lack of control. Being helpless.

I think there is a huge difference between not being in control and being helpless.

True enlightenment and paths to follow, like children painting their rooms in fancy colors then refusing to leave. Scary out there.

Scary "out there?" It's scary "in here!" You seem to think that all religion is about rainbows and butterflies. That's not always the case.

 

[Cassiopeia]

I know somewhat of how you felt. I was in such a state that I thought that I was damned to hell no matter what I did. I felt no connection to the Christian God and therefore felt worthless. It was so sad. In retrospect, I realized that Christianity just wasn't the path for me. When I experienced the Divine, through Wicca, I was amazed. I felt blessed, loved, and a connection to all of the Divine's creation. Everything went from black and white to technicolor. My relationship with the Divine was something I previously would never have thought possible and I can never imagine giving it up.



I know you have the strength to achieve what you desire. It takes perseverence, open-mindedness, and an open heart. I have no doubt that the Divine will reveal Itself to you and in time, you will know your path.

And congratulations on your "move." I know that took a considerable amount of inner strength. You are truly inspiring

Brightest Blessings,
Krysia

That very feeling of being damned no matter what I did is what has driven me from those typest of paths. I am more at peace now than I have been in a long time. The problem I face is that there aren't very many books or places for me to turn to as I am very singular in my path as well. I have yet to find a mentor for some of my abilities. Will msg you through pm. maybe you can point me in the right direction.

Peace,
Casi

 

[Clem is Me]

I think all religeons are about living in a context that no one can manipulate without permission.

 

[Cassiopeia]

I think all religeons are about living in a context that no one can manipulate without permission.

Any belief or myth or scientific attitude has a construct. Agnosticism has it's as well.

At least within faiths like Wicca and Pagan you have the choice to be what comes to you. Not what a set of rules defines.

The only thing Wicca asks is that you do no others harm. That is an ethical creed. It needn't be a relgious one.

Peace,
Casi

 

[Clem is Me]

JAR. Thanks.

 

[Cassiopeia]

JAR. Thanks.

Did I miss where you say what JAR is ?

 

[Clem is Me]

Nope. Have a perfect day.

 

[Dagda]

Not at all.

Just yesterday I was given a potion to heal my sore throat. It tasted nasty, but I got better fast.

I believe in animism. The belief of animism is probably one of man's oldest beliefs, with its origin most likely dating to the Paleolithic age. From its earliest beginnings it was a belief that a soul or spirit existed in every object, even if it was inanimate. I can feel it in inanimate objects. The other night I cleansed a necklace of negative energies and transfered some of my own energy into it.

More specific stuff to share later, I'm really tired right now though.

My current studies are in Sex Magick.

I've heard of Animism too.

Somebody brought up the idea that "control" might not be the best way to describe using magic. I just mean it could be a way to have a tool to use to be more proactive instead of being as passive as using prayer or belief only. I know it's impossible to control everything. I would just like to be able to take some kind of positive action for myself when it's needed.

I'm honestly not even certain why I have always had a belief somewhere in the back of my mind that magic is real, I just have. I think it could even be true that alot of what is thought of as mythology, as it pertains to the magical beliefs that people had throughout much of history, could have at least some basis in fact. But, it's pretty hard to bring this kind of subject up to most people. You may get this type of reaction>>

 

[Clem is Me]

JAR... Correct me if I'm wrong... "Just another religion."

Overall, I'd have to say Clem is the first Agnostic I've met who is actually hostile to religions and those who follow it. Most Agnostics I know say they don't deny or confirm the existance of the Divine, but they are open to the possibility (or they believe that there is some sort of Divine, though no religion has "gotten it right"). This openess to all possibilities of the Divine usually means the person is genuinely curious about beliefs and what they involve, usually to a dgree that's only matched by people who share the faith being discussed.

All and all, I think the exchange was... Odd.

Jerusha

I am an agnostic only because any possibility exists, including the ones I think are patently absurd. I do not know. But I must be shown something real. Religeons do not seem even remotely rooted in anything objective. And sure enough, Wicca, Paganism, Old School Treebees, whatever you feel like calling it is a religeon. Lots of personal testimonies, not much in the way of substance. JAR.

 

[Cassiopeia]

I am an agnostic only because any possibility exists, including the ones I think are patently absurd. I do not know. But I must be shown something real. Religeons do not seem even remotely rooted in anything objective. And sure enough, Wicca, Paganism, Old School Treebees, whatever you feel like calling it is a religeon. Lots of personal testimonies, not much in the way of substance. JAR.

Yes I can see your point. However, I think one of the reasons I have stopped offering people evidence of substance is because of the mocking, discounting and being called an outright liar. Therefore, I learned very early on to keep my mouth shut.

 

[Clem is Me]

Yes I can see your point. However, I think one of the reasons I have stopped offering people evidence of substance is because of the mocking, discounting and being called an outright liar. Therefore, I learned very early on to keep my mouth shut.

My grandma pulled a knife on me when I was 8 and threatened to neuter me.

Or did she? I remember it clear as day. But do I remember correctly? My mind created a nice story to fit some circumstances so that random things and coincidences made sense.

Or did it? maybe she really did pull a knife on me, or maybe that was just the utensil in her hand as she washed the dishes while ranting about my dad.

Or was it? Maybe I saw her with a knife in my anxious state and later, whenI tried to piece it all together the knife appeared in her hand when she threatened to castrate me.

Or maybe it was a spatula about the size of a knife at the angle I saw it.

I recall vividly how I lost the sight in my right eye. My mother remembers it quite differently.

I remember getting drunk with my mom and her friends while playing UNO in jr high. My mom does not remember it at all.

I remember thinking girls found me disgusting in High School, but my wife says they all thought I was hot, but unaproachable.

I do not trust my own memories, my own perceptions. Why in the hell should I trust anyone else's? People are very very bad at discerning events through hindsight. That's why I dig science. It doesn't ask you to rely on any buffoon's testimony about how the world works - even your own. If you doubt something go try it yourself. If you reach a different conclusion and can demonstrate this to enough people who can try it as well, you get big cash prizes.

Religeon, whether conservative orthodox mummery or trendy new aged energy conversion alchemy, is based on everything that fails as you become better aquainted with the universe. Of course, that's only my perception.

 

[Dagda]

I do not trust my own memories, my own perceptions. Why in the hell should I trust anyone else's?...[SNIP]

That's why I dig science.... It doesn't ask you to rely on any buffoon's testimony about how the world works - even your own........

Really? Social 'science' is one type of science that expects you to rely on the testimony of people who wrote whole textbooks on a subject familiar to us all; a subject world that we all live in everyday automatically and have some knowledge of, whether we "try it out" or not. Why should I rely on a 'researchers' testimony on how the human world works when I live in the same world as they do everyday? So, some science does expect you to rely on the testimony of a person who is somehow supposed to know more than you do, even though you can experience some of the same world they do just by existing. Science really does ask you to put a lot of faith in it too.

And, if you can't trust your own perceptions, and even intuitions, then you would never be able to come to any conclusions about the world at all. You are one of the people who will be skeptical and cynical no matter what anyway.

 

[Cassiopeia]

My grandma pulled a knife on me when I was 8 and threatened to neuter me.

Or did she? I remember it clear as day. But do I remember correctly? My mind created a nice story to fit some circumstances so that random things and coincidences made sense.

Or did it? maybe she really did pull a knife on me, or maybe that was just the utensil in her hand as she washed the dishes while ranting about my dad.

Or was it? Maybe I saw her with a knife in my anxious state and later, whenI tried to piece it all together the knife appeared in her hand when she threatened to castrate me.

Or maybe it was a spatula about the size of a knife at the angle I saw it.

I recall vividly how I lost the sight in my right eye. My mother remembers it quite differently.

I remember getting drunk with my mom and her friends while playing UNO in jr high. My mom does not remember it at all.

I remember thinking girls found me disgusting in High School, but my wife says they all thought I was hot, but unaproachable.

I do not trust my own memories, my own perceptions. Why in the hell should I trust anyone else's? People are very very bad at discerning events through hindsight. That's why I dig science. It doesn't ask you to rely on any buffoon's testimony about how the world works - even your own. If you doubt something go try it yourself. If you reach a different conclusion and can demonstrate this to enough people who can try it as well, you get big cash prizes.

Religeon, whether conservative orthodox mummery or trendy new aged energy conversion alchemy, is based on everything that fails as you become better aquainted with the universe. Of course, that's only my perception.

So now you see why I don't bother sharing ANY experiences with people as "evidence". It is too easily dismissed. Thanks for the reminder.

Blessings,
Casi

 

[pensive]

So now you see why I don't bother sharing ANY experiences with people as "evidence". It is too easily dismissed. Thanks for the reminder.

Yep. It's clear that some people more interested in hearing only things that support a pre-existing conclusion and rationalizing the rest. 'Tis best to let it go and move on with the rest of this wonderful discussion.

 

[pensive]

Somebody brought up the idea that "control" might not be the best way to describe using magic.

That'd be me. I'm a stickler for word usage. It's partly because I'm a writer at heart. It's also partly because of the integral role language plays in my practices. To put this in perspective, I take the item "Keep your words in good order" from Cunningham's "Thirteen Goals of a Witch" (one of the most wonderful things he wrote up for the Pagan community, IMO) quite seriously. As such, I can be very picky over word choice (to the point of being seen as someone who likes to argue over "semantics" in some cases). I especially think it's important because there can be huge differences between what the conscious mind believes and what sort of ideas the unconscious mind is holding onto. Being mindful of one's choices in words is a way to become aware of potential differences and address them.

I just mean it could be a way to have a tool to use to be more proactive instead of being as passive as using prayer or belief only. I know it's impossible to control everything. I would just like to be able to take some kind of positive action for myself when it's needed.

I'm glad you understand this. Hopefully, everyone else does, too.

 

[Clem is Me]

Then I will surmise that it is JAR. Because that is the only reasonable conclusion. And because I was brought up under conditions of unreason and have felt the effects I very much distrust and suspect it.

 

[pensive]

Then I will surmise that it is JAR.

Works for me. Have a good one.

So, any more questions out there? Any requests for further clarifications?

 

[Clem is Me]

Really? Social 'science' is one type of science that expects you to rely on the testimony of people who wrote whole textbooks on a subject familiar to us all; a subject world that we all live in everyday automatically and have some knowledge of, whether we "try it out" or not. Why should I rely on a 'researchers' testimony on how the human world works when I live in the same world as they do everyday? So, some science does expect you to rely on the testimony of a person who is somehow supposed to know more than you do, even though you can experience some of the same world they do just by existing. Science really does ask you to put a lot of faith in it too.

And, if you can't trust your own perceptions, and even intuitions, then you would never be able to come to any conclusions about the world at all. You are one of the people who will be skeptical and cynical no matter what anyway.

I suspect social science when it is based only on observation, yes. I will look at statistics, but I will not rely on interpretations of them in anything more than a general way. IE I will agree that for the most part people will tend to enter a groupthink mentality when pressured by social forces, but I would not therefore concluse that each individual is a cultist waiting to happen. it depends on a great many other factors.

As far as cynical and skeptical...well...yeah...how else should I be?

 

[boughtwithaprice]

That very feeling of being damned no matter what I did is what has driven me from those typest of paths. I am more at peace now than I have been in a long time. The problem I face is that there aren't very many books or places for me to turn to as I am very singular in my path as well. I have yet to find a mentor for some of my abilities. Will msg you through pm. maybe you can point me in the right direction.

Peace,
Casi

This is the thing that irks me the most about some modern forms of christianity. They paint a picture of God that is ready to damn a person if they happen to breathe the wrong way. Some congregations live in constant fear of doing something evil. The preachers fail to tell people that perfect love cast out fear. God loves us enough to go to the cross and die for us. We are His creation and He wants us to know Him. Why some modern christians practice the gospel of fear, I'll never know.


What I want for the Non-christian religion forum is for Non-christians to talk with christians without fear of rule 6 warnings, and for christians to have the chance to share the love of Christ with whoever wants to discuss it.
Non-christians are free to argue for and debate for their faith, but this forum should not be used as a promotion and recruiting tool. The conversations should be a comparison of christianity to other religions, not information about other religions only. There are other web sites for that kind of thing. This is Christian forums, and Christ should be the topic of conversation here.

Casi, you should continue to seek God, and you will find Him when you seek Him with all of your heart Jesus did not come into the world to judge the world, but to save it. I understand your wanting to leave churches that cause you to fear, but I pray that you won't turn your back on Jesus, He loves you and cares for you.


John 3
17. "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.
John 12
47. "If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world.








The staff and I will be working on guidelines for posting here in NCR. We want the love of Christ to shine forth here in Christian Forums.

 

[Clem is Me]

So now you see why I don't bother sharing ANY experiences with people as "evidence". It is too easily dismissed. Thanks for the reminder.

Blessings,
Casi

But you also rely in it to guide your perceptions, and dissallow anyone the chance to point out the inconsistencies and illogical conclusions you may have reached. Is this supposed to be a positive way to proceed, or merely more ego protective? No one wants to have their preceptions pried apart, but some of us value authenticity and integrity more than personal vindication. The reason we do is that we experience the almost fanatical justifications all around us these days, from our president to God Hates **** to banning same sex marriage to credit card overuse to creationism as science to racism and sexism....and yeah, it bothers us.

And by us I mean me.