Ask a Christian philosopher a question

[Ana the Ist]

I am showing you.

You mean, by telling us?

 

[oi_antz]

You mean, by telling us?

Yes! Can you see it?

 

[bhsmte]

Yes! Can you see it?

Can you point to what we should be seeing?

 

[Ana the Ist]

Yes! Can you see it?

At this point, all you've "shown" anyone is an empty unfounded claim. Can you do any better?

Correct me if I'm wrong...but didn't we .discuss (maybe earlier in this thread) the fact that emotions don't necessarily reflect anything external (like an interaction with a god) and can only be said to reflect something internal (like how you feel about your parents) with any certainty?

I could've sworn I discussed this with you and you "liked" what i had to say. Now you disagree ?

 

[oi_antz]

Can you point to what we should be seeing?

Yes, according to the following statement, which is really at the beginning of this discourse, you should be seeing that The Word of God does not condemn me.

Because He accepts us when we do what we know is right, so The Word of God does not condemn us.

Edit: following is response to Ana.

At this point, all you've "shown" anyone is an empty unfounded claim. Can you do any better?

I will get back to you with this later, need to go right now.

Correct me if I'm wrong...but didn't we .discuss (maybe earlier in this thread) the fact that emotions don't necessarily reflect anything external (like an interaction with a god) and can only be said to reflect something internal (like how you feel about your parents) with any certainty?

I could've sworn I discussed this with you and you "liked" what i had to say. Now you disagree ?

Probably not likely that I have changed my mind. Can you please find a link to where we were discussing this? Maybe there is some clarification required.

 

[bhsmte]

Yes, according to the following statement, which is really at the beginning of this discourse, you should be seeing that The Word of God does not condemn me.


I will get back to you with this later, need to go right now.

Probably not likely that I have changed my mind. Can you please find a link to where we were discussing this? Maybe there is some clarification required.

I don't see how this progresses the discussion.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Yes, according to the following statement, which is really at the beginning of this discourse, you should be seeing that The Word of God does not condemn me.

How is that not confirmation bias? You're basically saying to look at "nothing out of the ordinary" because "something" that you believe would have happened, didn't. That's like proving the existence of one's invisible pet dragon by the observation that you can't see it.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[oi_antz]

I don't see how this progresses the discussion.

It is your decision to make, whether it progresses. I simply answered your question. It is confusing, because I used multi-quote to reply to both you and Ana. My response to you ended when I began quoting Ana. I'll edit it to make this clearer, sorry about that.

 

[oi_antz]

How is that not confirmation bias?

God's Word condemns when we are guilty, and only forgives when He has forgiven us. This cannot be manufactured by confirmation bias. You'd struggle to accept this if you are required to insist that God is not real.

 

[bhsmte]

It is your decision to make, whether it progresses. I simply answered your question. It is confusing, because I used multi-quote to reply to both you and Ana. My response to you ended when I began quoting Ana. I'll edit it to make this clearer, sorry about that.

Yes, clarifying further how you have supported your point, would be helpful.

 

[bhsmte]

God's Word condemns when we are guilty, and only forgives when He has forgiven us. This cannot be manufactured by confirmation bias. You'd struggle to accept this if you are required to insist that God is not real.

And what exactly is required for one to believe what you interpret above?

 

[oi_antz]

And what exactly is required for one to believe what you interpret above?

It probably depends, what is preventing such a person from believing it. Do you have an example?

 

[bhsmte]

It probably depends, what is preventing such a person from believing it. Do you have an example?

The credibility of the claims.

 

[oi_antz]

The credibility of the claims.

That seems circular. What causes this person to doubt the credibility of the claims?

 

[bhsmte]

That seems circular. What causes this person to doubt the credibility of the claims?

No logical reason to believe the claim and or, the claim can not be reconciled with well evidenced reality.

And on the contrary, requiring external support to believe a claim, outside of the source of the claim itself, is the opposite, of circular reasoning.

 

[oi_antz]

No logical reason to believe the claim

Is that something that you think I can help with? (Y/N please). I don't believe you have any reason to believe the claim, btw. You're the type who is aggressively opposed to finding that God really can condemn and forgive.

and or, the claim can not be reconciled with well evidenced reality.

It can be reconciled with reality though, and there is evidence of that. Do you think I have always felt eternal security with God? Do you think I have always lived with good conscience in His sight? Do you think that I do feel eternal security with God now, and that I am living with good conscience in His sight?

And on the contrary, requiring external support to believe a claim, outside of the source of the claim itself, is the opposite, of circular reasoning.

You said the lack of credibility of the claim is reason to consider the claim lacks credibility. It seems like a quip really, not a serious answer. Probably you've got some strong emotional investment in opposing my claim, and gratifying that is more of your concern than really negotiating an agreement of truth.

 

[bhsmte]

Is that something that you think I can help with? (Y/N please). I don't believe you have any reason to believe the claim, btw. You're the type who is aggressively opposed to finding that God really can condemn and forgive.

It can be reconciled with reality though, and there is evidence of that. Do you think I have always felt eternal security with God? Do you think I have always lived with good conscience in His sight? Do you think that I do feel eternal security with God now, and that I am living with good conscience in His sight?

You said the lack of credibility of the claim is reason to consider the claim lacks credibility. It seems like a quip really, not a serious answer. Probably you've got some strong emotional investment in opposing my claim, and gratifying that is more of your concern than really negotiating an agreement of truth.

Some people are able to support their beliefs and claims with reasoning and logic, some can't. Your perception of my aggressiveness, is understandable, because I disagree with your faith belief.

You feeling eternal security and a God being real, are two separate things. When they perform drug trials, they give one group of people a placebo (a sugar pill) and sometimes, the placebo can make people believe they feel better, even though what they are taking is nothing but a sugar pill. The power of the mind, is something to behold.

To me at least, claims lack credibility, when the person making the claim, can not support it with objective evidence, that can be verified. Again, the opposite, of circular reasoning. Circular reasoning would be, I believe what you say, simply because you say it.

 

[Ana the Ist]

God's Word condemns when we are guilty, and only forgives when He has forgiven us. This cannot be manufactured by confirmation bias. You'd struggle to accept this if you are required to insist that God is not real.

What would an example of god condemning you look like? You'd feel...bad?

 

[Aelred of Rievaulx]

I am showing you.

This very much reminds me of Homer Simpson praying "Please give me absolutely no sign... Thy will be done".

 

[Davian]

God's Word condemns when we are guilty, and only forgives when He has forgiven us. This cannot be manufactured by confirmation bias. You'd struggle to accept this if you are required to insist that God is not real.

What would an example of god condemning you look like? You'd feel...bad?

Smite

• Davian
• Dec 18, 2014