Ask a Christian philosopher a question

[Eyes wide Open]

(Sorry OP, for this)

Threads do tend stray sometimes, so apologies to the OP for that.

which of the words in the bible (I assume is what you mean) appear to not be truth and to not fit your world view?

Specific to the flow of my dialogue in this thread you may like to view my post 67, 103 and 106. If a perfect being gets ‘literally’ Jealous then I dismiss that truth as it doesn’t fit with my worldview. If it is a message from teacher to student (type of thing) parcelled up as a symbolic teaching relaying us moving away from a certain experience to something else or another experience then I can relate. As I said prior, I haven’t seen it described that way.

I have found the opposite actually, that my world view identifies the truth to be consistent with how the world view of the bible writers influenced their understanding and expression of truth.

Again specific to the dialogue, you’ve experienced a jealous God have you? If so you can relay that experience for me.

Also, are you really against acknowledging the persons who wrote the bible and instead calling it an impersonal "book"? That seems like a really wrong thing to do. Those writers are actually very thoughtful.

I don’t know the people who wrote the bible, I don’t need to take anything they say as truth, anymore than I do writings in the Koran, the Bhagavad Gita, the Guru Garanth Sahib, or the Pali Canon. That’s not to say I don’t find inspiring pieces in those works. I didn’t call it impersonal either, you implied that because I called it a book, and called me wrong for doing so. All the above works are books.


[/QUOTE]

 

[Davian]

On a hunch, I googled "counterfactual with an impossible antecedent". Like I suspected, William Lane Craig's website is peppered with the phrase.

I like your hunches.

One must be careful when one does a cut-and-paste response without really understanding it.

Looks like the hero worship of ole Willie continues...

a.p. is just one of many members here that have a surprisingly similar enthusiasm for WLC quotes.

 

[Davian]

I could, but I see no reason to.

I didn't think you could.

No problem. Unresolved questions will continue to resurface.

 

[bhsmte]

I didn't think you could.

No problem. Unresolved questions will continue to resurface.

And when they do resurface, the defense mechanisms come in handy.

 

[Eyes wide Open]

God views his people as His bride. When his people worship other false gods he refers to His people as adulterous. Would you be jealous if your spouse was attracted to something else more than you?

Why all these lame analogies? You mean that God relates to us in some fashion, so the worship of other Gods is symbolic of us no longer relating in the fashion we once did, (thus moving away from or attracted to something else) and that God wants us to relate again. In other words we are part of a larger whole that in some way benefits us to be relating to it, not that this whole (whatever it is or what you want to call it) gets jealous.

 

[HitchSlap]

So,

Why all these lame analogies? You mean that God relates to us in some fashion, so the worship of other Gods is symbolic of us no longer relating in the fashion we once did, (thus moving away from or attracted to something else) and that God wants us to relate again. In other words we are part of a larger whole that in some way benefits us to be relating to it, not that this whole (whatever it is or what you want to call it) gets jealous.

He would, it seems, have us believe god is like a jealous boyfriend.

 

[Chriliman]

Why all these lame analogies? You mean that God relates to us in some fashion, so the worship of other Gods is symbolic of us no longer relating in the fashion we once did, (thus moving away from or attracted to something else) and that God wants us to relate again. In other words we are part of a larger whole that in some way benefits us to be relating to it, not that this whole (whatever it is or what you want to call it) gets jealous.

I mean God is jealous when his people worship other gods. Another god can be anything including video games or sports

 

[oi_antz]

Specific to the flow of my dialogue in this thread you may like to view my post 67, 103 and 106.

So I looked at those posts but I could not find any text from the bible. Can you please also provide the location of the scriptures you are referring to?

If a perfect being gets ‘literally’ Jealous then I dismiss that truth as it doesn’t fit with my worldview.

I'd like to understand why this is. Could you please explain that to me?

If it is a message from teacher to student (type of thing) parcelled up as a symbolic teaching relaying us moving away from a certain experience to something else or another experience then I can relate. As I said prior, I haven’t seen it described that way.

Again specific to the dialogue, you’ve experienced a jealous God have you? If so you can relay that experience for me.

Yeah, well to stay broad so as to respect the personal, shameful nature that sin is. Let's describe for an example the problem of pride. Here's an example that I don't mind using. I was at a back packers in Sydney one night, and I heard this young guy talking on the phone to his friend, explaining how he has no money for food, has accommodation sorted out and was thinking about shoplifting. But then, also explaining how he doesn't want to do the homeless thing in Sydney. So anyway, I slept without really thinking about it. Then in the morning, the first thought was to give him $50 for food before heading to work. Well I didn't want to feel ashamed as being one who can just give money away, especially as there was something like 12 beds in the dorm. So I walked out to go to work, this was heavy on my mind. As I got to the elevator, The Lord convinced me to read the bible. The scripture was about fasting (can't remember which one), and caused me to remember how I hate to fast. Then this guy was being forced to fast without even agreeing to it. So then I knew He was speaking to me. I just swallowed that pride and went back to the room to give him the $50. He was rapt. He must have been real hungry I suppose. I was right too, some guy in one of the bunks looked at me as I quickly left to work. In this case, the idol was my self. I was worshipping my own self, pleasing my own desires more than Him. I can definitely understand how He is jealous of any spirit that figures out how to use our desires to make us disobedient to Him, seeing as He always wants us to proser, bless and be blessed. I don't know if I was worshipping a spirit in that case, but you can also understand if you like, how polytheists or even divergent monotheists will find an image of the god that suits them, rather than the one that demands their obedience to holiness.

I don’t know the people who wrote the bible, I don’t need to take anything they say as truth, anymore than I do writings in the Koran, the Bhagavad Gita, the Guru Garanth Sahib, or the Pali Canon.

Of course you don't. But that you proclaim to decline to accept the truth of their statements, does raise a concern. Especially if what they think is true. This is why I have asked for examples.

That’s not to say I don’t find inspiring pieces in those works. I didn’t call it impersonal either, you implied that because I called it a book, and called me wrong for doing so. All the above works are books.

I inferred it, because you did express it that way.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Would you state that more plainly for me?

Are you saying that God turned off the truth-spigot for those people, and God left them mistakenly thinking that they were still speaking divine truths? How is that not telling lies? And why does it say that God deceives people instead of "God let them deceive themselves"?

Perhaps there are translation or context issues here, but if not that would make the Bible telling a lie, because that's not the plain reading of the text. Your defense seems to be one of obfuscation. What context or correct translation would lead a reasonable person to conclude that your interpretation of the passages is correct?


eudaimonia,

Mark

I like that "truth-spigot" metaphor.

Now, which set of verses are you referring to specifically? The ones you cited from Ezekiel 14?

Simple answer: The false prophet's license to the "truth-spigot" was revoked (see context given by Ezekial, Chapter 13). However, what this means is that God 'enabled' the false prophet to be enticed so as to be prone to his own wishful (sinful) thinking-----it doesn't mean that God inspired, or placed, an erroneous data set in the prophet's mind. Moreover, this passage (i.e. Ezekiel Chapter 14) most likely reflects something similar to how God handled King Ahab in 1 Kings 22:1-28.

So, there you go.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Did you mean to say "parched"?

No.... 'parsed.'

 

[Davian]

No.... 'parsed.'

Then you'll need to explain yourself.

 

[Davian]

I mean God is jealous when his people worship other gods. Another god can be anything including video games or sports

Do video games or sports care about what you eat, what you wear on your head (or don't), and with whom you have sex?

 

[Eyes wide Open]

So I looked at those posts but I could not find any text from the bible. Can you please also provide the location of the scriptures you are referring to?

I'd like to understand why this is. Could you please explain that to me?

Yeah, well to stay broad so as to respect the personal, shameful nature that sin is. Let's describe for an example the problem of pride. Here's an example that I don't mind using. I was at a back packers in Sydney one night, and I heard this young guy talking on the phone to his friend, explaining how he has no money for food, has accommodation sorted out and was thinking about shoplifting. But then, also explaining how he doesn't want to do the homeless thing in Sydney. So anyway, I slept without really thinking about it. Then in the morning, the first thought was to give him $50 for food before heading to work. Well I didn't want to feel ashamed as being one who can just give money away, especially as there was something like 12 beds in the dorm. So I walked out to go to work, this was heavy on my mind. As I got to the elevator, The Lord convinced me to read the bible. The scripture was about fasting (can't remember which one), and caused me to remember how I hate to fast. Then this guy was being forced to fast without even agreeing to it. So then I knew He was speaking to me. I just swallowed that pride and went back to the room to give him the $50. He was rapt. He must have been real hungry I suppose. I was right too, some guy in one of the bunks looked at me as I quickly left to work. In this case, the idol was my self. I was worshipping my own self, pleasing my own desires more than Him. I can definitely understand how He is jealous of any spirit that figures out how to use our desires to make us disobedient to Him, seeing as He always wants us to proser, bless and be blessed. I don't know if I was worshipping a spirit in that case, but you can also understand if you like, how polytheists or even divergent monotheists will find an image of the god that suits them, rather than the one that demands their obedience to holiness.

Of course you don't. But that you proclaim to decline to accept the truth of their statements, does raise a concern. Especially if what they think is true. This is why I have asked for examples.

I inferred it, because you did express it that way.

Thanks for your concern, but its not needed. I find your manner in light of that to be condescending, as you know nothing about me.

 

[Eyes wide Open]

.

 

[ecco]

I know many here have asked me questions and for whatever reason I either was unable to respond, chose not to respond, or did not see the question and thus have left the questioner feeling overlooked.

Therefore I propose that in this thread, if anyone wants to ask me a question post it and I will address it. Since there are numerous questioners and I am but one, I ask that you only present one question to me. Not two or three or ten, no statements or claims, but just one question. No memes, gifs, sarcasm or cynicism. No jokes, and nothing that would cause this thread to be closed.

No questions about why I haven't answered this question or that.

So if anyone has a question that fits that criteria the ask and I shall attempt a worthy response. If there passes an interval of time between the last question I answer, then the first person to have asked a question can ask another one and so in turn following that order.

Think carefully about what you will ask and make the question succinct as possible.

Thank you.

How old were you when you first heard of jesus?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Then you'll need to explain yourself.

...it's called a 'joke,' Davian.

 

[Davian]

...it's called a 'joke,' Davian.

I gathered that much. Explain it.

 

[oi_antz]

Thanks for your concern, but its not needed. I find your manner in light of that to be condescending, as you know nothing about me.

That is fair comment, and I do apologise for that.

 

[Chris B]

Well, it more of a reality kind of thing. But there's no way I'd promote my reality for you or anyone else to accept. That would be wrong of me. Each of us has our own spiritual evolution we have to go through. Its un-avoidable.

Now, "my reality" is a phrase that rings alarm bells for me. I'm working on the basis that there is only one, and that views, understandings and beliefs about such are better or worse approximations to such. This without precipitate ruling as to which is where (though flat-earthers are probably in trouble. I suspect that in a distinctly judgemental way NASA declines to hire them.)

"...there's no way I'd promote my reality for you or anyone else to accept."

"Each of us has our own spiritual evolution we have to go through. Its un-avoidable."

You just did.

 

[Eyes wide Open]

That is fair comment, and I do apologise for that.

Ok no probs.