Ask a Calvinist!

[cygnusx1]

Hi there. I am an Anglican Calvinist. So is J I Packer. It is true that many evangelical Anglicans tend to be Arminian, but that is not surprising since the majority of evangelicals tend to be Arminian since that's all they know.

Pleased to meet you

 

[theseed]

Here are 2 of my threads
Limited or Ulimited Atonement: Do you agree?

Myths and Misconceptions about Calvinism

 

[JM]

I was a calvinist Anglican...before I left that church.

 

[cajunhillbilly]

I was a calvinist Anglican...before I left that church.

What church are you a member of now?

 

[JM]

What church are you a member of now?

I attend a Baptist Church, but I still have a place in my heart for the Canadian BCP...

 

[skeptic7]

Sorry, this question was touched a little bit earlier, but...
What is the point to all of this if God ultimately decides who goes to heaven? If the answer is to glorify god, is it really glorifying God if you don't even choose it on your own will, or is it just the fact that he created that and that is why its glorifying to him? If So why would God want to be glorified? Is he lacking something? If so, then that obviously can't be God.

This is pretty much a simplified version of a series of questions, but i think the point is brought across, so i would appreciate it if people clear up my "misconsceptions".
thanks,

-Kyle

 

[cygnusx1]

Sorry, this question was touched a little bit earlier, but...
What is the point to all of this if God ultimately decides who goes to heaven? If the answer is to glorify god, is it really glorifying God if you don't even choose it on your own will, or is it just the fact that he created that and that is why its glorifying to him? If So why would God want to be glorified? Is he lacking something? If so, then that obviously can't be God.

This is pretty much a simplified version of a series of questions, but i think the point is brought across, so i would appreciate it if people clear up my "misconsceptions".
thanks,

-Kyle

God glorifies Himself because there is no-one more worthy.

Hope this helps.....

 

[skeptic7]

seems kinda self-centered, for a loving god

 

[cygnusx1]

seems kinda self-centered, for a loving god

seems kinda logical,if He did things for "anothers Glory" that would mean something is higher than Himself.............impossible.

Actually one of the Great things about the Trinity is that there is Love ,always has been.

 

[skeptic7]

I'm not saying he does things for anothers glory, but i'm saying if he creates us so he can glorify himself, it seems self centered/point less. What i am saying is, what I believe is God created us so that we could share in his glory, because god is generous and loving.

 

[cygnusx1]

I'm not saying he does things for anothers glory, but i'm saying if he creates us so he can glorify himself, it seems self centered/point less. What i am saying is, what I believe is God created us so that we could share in his glory, because god is generous and loving.

"I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another"
Isaiah 42 : 8

 

[Ryft]

Sorry, this question was touched a little bit earlier, but... What is the point to all of this if God ultimately decides who goes to heaven? If the answer is to glorify god, is it really glorifying God if you don't even choose it on your own will, or is it just the fact that he created that and that is why its glorifying to him?

You do choose it on your own will, Kyle. However, your will is both extensionally limited and inescapably related to your nature. The unregenerate sinner can no more will to exercise faith in God than I can will to breathe in the vacuum of space. But first, God says, "I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh." The blind cannot see until their sight has been restored; and, once restored, they are seeing on their own — God is not doing their seeing for them.

Okay, but I think our question is more of why does God want the Gospel proclaimed if it doesn't matter in regards to people's salvation or lack thereof?

Romans 10:13-15 — "for, 'Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.' How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, 'How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!'"

 

[Qoheleth]

Well, Im confused. If we as Christians define God as pure Love first (yes he demonstrates justice and mercy) then why wouldnt God choose (as pure love would) to save everybody not just a few or even a large number but all.


Likewise, if my three children were lost, would I, out of our limited human love only try to find (save) one and not the others. Of course not, my children are equals in my heart and I would save them all. Isnt Gods love far more pure and complete than mine??

 

[theseed]

Well, Im confused. If we as Christians define God as pure Love first (yes he demonstrates justice and mercy) then why wouldnt God choose (as pure love would) to save everybody not just a few or even a large number but all.

Very good question. Even Arminianist must answers this one. I say because God wants someting more--to express the full exent of his Glory. Non Calvinists say that He does not want to vioate "free will".

You must also keep in mind that God is just, and that Christ died for us while we were his enemies. While God loves us, he also his angery towards us, his wrath burns like the fire.

Likewise, if my three children were lost, would I, out of our limited human love only try to find (save) one and not the others. Of course not, my children are equals in my heart and I would save them all. Isnt Gods love far more pure and complete than mine??

Do you burn with wrath towards your children?

 

[Qoheleth]

Burn with wrath, no I dont. Mad as I can possibly be at times, but this doesnt usurp the place of Love in my heart. I cant see how it would in the pure unadulterated Love that God has.

It is my impression through scripture that God is constantly chasing after his "fold" and re-establishing relationships (covenants). He is relentless about this love.

1 Corinthians13 tells us that Love is patient, kind, does not envy, does not boast, is not proud, is not rude, is not self seeking, is not easily angered, keeps no record of wrongs, does not delight in evil, rejoices with the truth, always hopes. always perseveres, and never fails.

If this is love that describes love as far we can understand it, how much more is it attributed to the Almighty Father. God has time and time again included us in a relationship with him (one of love and guidance) just as the Trinity is indeed a relationship of love.

Whether or not we are enemies (due to sin-separation) and His glory must be expressed as you say, Love as we have seen, may conquer all of this by a relationship of volition.

 

[theseed]

Whether or not we are enemies (due to sin-separation) and His glory must be expressed as you say, Love as we have seen, may conquer all of this by a relationship of volition.

So you think that God is going to save all people, no matter what? You believe that God is willing to comprimise with sin? That he will tolerate sin? God does not teach this in his word, The Bible.

 

[Qoheleth]

I Most certainly do not believe in universal salvation. No, the Father does not compromise with sin and neither will he tolerate its ultimate end. He has sent his son to effectively reverse the sin of Adam in creation. Though he has tolerated it (sin) for some time now, he will not allow it to ultimately destroy his creations.

But, again, as the Trinity is a relationship of love and thence created man in its image Genesis 1: 26-27, a relationship of love, creating a relationship (humans/Trinity) in love, and this condition of love is demonstarted throughout history as the Father is seen to initiate the healing, calling, guiding, reproving, disciplining, scolding and yet, always because of love and the intrisic qualities of love that he alone holds as described in 1 Corinthians 13 to a degree that we can not begin to achieve.

 

[theseed]

I Most certainly do not believe in universal salvation. No, the Father does not compromise with sin and neither will he tolerate its ultimate end. He has sent his son to effectively reverse the sin of Adam in creation. Though he has tolerated it (sin) for some time now, he will not allow it to ultimately destroy his creations.

But, again, as the Trinity is a relationship of love and thence created man in its image Genesis 1: 26-27, a relationship of love, creating a relationship (humans/Trinity) in love, and this condition of love is demonstarted throughout history as the Father is seen to initiate the healing, calling, guiding, reproving, disciplining, scolding and yet, always because of love and the intrisic qualities of love that he alone holds as described in 1 Corinthians 13 to a degree that we can not begin to achieve.

You emphasize his love, but overlook his justice. Because we are slaves to our own nature, God must choose who he will draw to himself, because no man seeks God by thier own power.

 

[Qoheleth]

I agree that God must exercise justice. But if His foremost attribute was Justice, then He must temper justice with mercy and because of pure love, he must have mercy on us all equally or the scripture is false concerning 1 Corinthians 13.
Did God create out of justice, mercy or Love. What does Jesus describe the greatest virtue to be...Love

 

[theseed]

I agree that God must exercise justice. But if His foremost attribute was Justice, then He must temper justice with mercy and because of pure love, he must have mercy on us all equally or the scripture is false concerning 1 Corinthians 13.
Did God create out of justice, mercy or Love. What does Jesus describe the greatest virtue to be...Love

Since your not Calvinist, you can't argue here. I've answered your question. God must chose who he will save because we are totally depraved (Spiritually dead). Since all people are not saved, then we know that it is because God did not save.